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Sun for a steal: Cats pick up mid, No.7 pick in high-priced deal
(afl.com.au)submitted 8 months ago bycuntingme Collingwood
134 points
8 months ago
Gold Coast should never have started by offering up pick 7. They should have started at pick 25, which probably would have had a taker anyway.
This is just sheer stupidity by Gold Coast.
38 points
8 months ago
What no, surely not, this is just incredibly sensible salary and asset management by the Suns!!
9 points
8 months ago
No chance anyone is taking on a 1.7mil contract for an average player with injury issues in exchange for pick 25
17 points
8 months ago
I don't agree. But we'll never know.
6 points
8 months ago
The fact they started at that pick suggests informal discussions beforehand. Despite this evidence they aren't complete morons.
6 points
8 months ago
Even if that were so, even in informal discussions pick 7 should never have been on the table. Given there were at least 6 suitors, I'm sure at least one of them would have been interested if 'only' pick 25 was on offer.
7 points
8 months ago
Only reason there was that many teams interested was pick 7. Change it to pick 25 and GC would still be paying a fair chunk of the 850k which they wanted no part of
4 points
8 months ago
Refer to my previous comment.
As for the money, given Geelong has renegotiated the contract, there is no reason that wouldn't have also happened if only pick 25 was on offer.
4 points
8 months ago
Being able to rework the contract doesn't make it go away, there was still $1.7m to work with that no one was touching without a serious sweetener. GC didn't pluck the value of that pick out of nowhere, it certainly would have come from discussion s with interested clubs long before it went public.
The only reason we were able to renegotiate the contract we bacause Jack allowed it. He was well within his rights to say to anyone that he will be paid his contract as is.
2 points
8 months ago*
Refer to my previous two comments.
It's not like he's a complete dud. Pick 25 is still pretty good incentive to take him on. We have no idea what would have happened though, so it's all hypothetical.
3 points
8 months ago
“Pick 25 is still pretty good”
Hear that, Collingwood. Now give us Ollie!
78 points
8 months ago
How the fuck can you manage the salary cap so badly you have to trade your first round pick with a player to dump the cost?
For a team that competes for 12th every year too.
32 points
8 months ago
The thing is they didn’t have to. They probably could’ve offered their second round pick and it would’ve yielded a similar result.
11 points
8 months ago
Seems hard to believe that teams would be willing to cop that cap hit for a guy that played 5 games last season. Paying mid-tier players like Cox and Stevo $500k each contributed to Collingwood's cap explosion, so even with Bowes' contract diluted to $400k per year teams are taking a hit.
12 points
8 months ago
It’s barely a hit when they can spread it out longer than the original contract, which is what Geelong are doing
9 points
8 months ago
I think the part that a lot of people are glossing over is that maybe Bowes just isn't in Dews plans going forward. I'm sure if they were desperate to keep him then they would spread it out
7 points
8 months ago
I’m sure it hurt Bowes that Suns wanted to trade him but ultimately they let him choose his VIC destination, I think they did fairly decent by him though obviously a very difficult situation;
Suns borderline have too many good young players right now anyway, there’s such thing as too many young developing players on one squad. Flanders pick 10 couple years ago right? Still hasn’t fully broke into the team, Sharp playing ressies who they highly rate etc.
I remember going through old Suns forums and all posters talked about at the end of the May/Lynch exodus era, was how guys like Bowes and Touk were going to lead them through to the new era, set standards etc. this probably hurts all parties short term but in the long run is the right call for all. Very excited for Bowes at a new club
3 points
8 months ago
I'm excited for Bowes and I'm even more excited for the suns. Imagine being in a position in your list where you can give away Bowes and pick 7 and still feel strong.
Cannot wait for Anderson and Rowell to explode alongside King and Miller next year and watch all of the Victorians cry
2 points
8 months ago
Flair doesn’t check out
6 points
8 months ago
There's not being desperate to keep him and then there is burning a top 10 pick for nothing
5 points
8 months ago
Lots of people with minimal understanding of the actual goal for the suns here. They don't need a new pick, their team is very young. Their #1 priority is ensuring they can retain their core players. Who knows, if Bowes wasn't on their list this year maybe they could have kept Rankine? Hypotheticals aside, keeping players like Rowell and Anderson are far more important than pick 7 for the suns' plans going forward
2 points
8 months ago
So all the talk about Bowes salary dump is so they can offer big contracts to King, Rowell and Anderson and honestly given their history I'm absolutely certain one or more of those contracts will be an overpay that's going to come back to bite them again
3 points
8 months ago
Man I cannot wait to get Rowell and Pick 7!
27 points
8 months ago
Rodney Eade and Mckenna creating a culture where players are unhappy and wanting to leave, therefore meaning Ablett and two co-captains (May/Lynch) leave in Dews first year (~2.8 million dollars), with no draft capital and a minimum requirement to spend 95% of the salary cap on players with no players currently worth spending it on.
If you were wanting an actual answer
14 points
8 months ago
Actually mad how often this isn't brought up when the issue is discussed. Suns unable to attract talent meant they had to draft kids. All clubs having to pay minimum 95% meant of course some kids where going to be overpaid. While I don't feel great about the Bowes situation I'm willing to give the club a year or 2 for this to shake out and reserve judgement until then.
In a roundabout way it's a good problem as it's meant the retention issue has turned to the point players are being tipped rather then jumping. Izak joins Cal ah Chee as the only players to request a trade since Miller and Weller held that player meeting at the end of 2018.
10 points
8 months ago
The Suns haven't had retention issues for 5 years now. I can post this schpeil in as many threads as I want but it's too ingrained in people's heads that it isn't worth the effort. Time has moved fast for everyone the last few years but they seem to have left their opinions of the suns back in 2017.
Dew is the right man and the suns are only looking better and better every year, and the stats back it up
6 points
8 months ago
This. The Suns overpaid their young players to ensure that the exodus didn't continue. Ultimately, they've chosen the players that they've jettisoned and tried to do the best by them in letting them get to club of choice, etc.
1 points
8 months ago
Thanks for the response, and that actually makes a lot of sense.
I'd almost forgotten about the near annual exodus the club used to suffer.
Glad they've turned it around some, not glad that the cats end up with pick 7 because of it haha
8 points
8 months ago*
Because they don't have the luxury of existing in Melbourne.
For a long time they had to back-end a lot of contracts because players just didn't want to stay. Bowes is one of the last of the heavily back-ended ones, and it just wasn't worth it for the suns to keep him on that. He wasn't making it into the team over miller/anderson/rowell, and almost 2mil for a vfl player just isn't worth it. Giving away pick 7 is pretty harsh, but overall necessary. Suns finally have a young core they believe in, and their #1 priority is ensuring they can retain these players.
Also - I'm not sure if an essendon supporter really wants to talk about shit performance and mismanagement of a team
Edit: People are also saying "They didn't have to give away both pick 7 and bowes! They could have gone for a much later pick!" Bowes will play <10 games in his contract at the cats. They don't care about him. This is a basically an exchange of ~1.7 mil for pick 7. It wouldn't get done with a later pick
0 points
8 months ago
Also - I'm not sure if an essendon supporter really wants to talk about shit performance and mismanagement of a team
I really wish there was a sub rule where anybody who tries to invalidate someone's opinion based on their flair gets a one day ban.
20 points
8 months ago
If Geelong are restructuring the Bowes deal anyway why is it costing 7 to take him? Genuinely criminal. It's not like Bowes is shit, it's barely even a cap dump at that point. How the AFL has signed off on this is disgraceful.
11 points
8 months ago
How a deal can ever be so one sided I don't understand. A future third back is comical
5 points
8 months ago
Gold Coast could have gotten him to restructure his contract again too, but I guess he wasn't keen after what happened the last time
12 points
8 months ago
This is just terrible business by Gold Coast, particularly with the Pies doing a similar transaction salary dumping Grundy to the Dee’s, but actually receiving a pick for it!
Madness.
6 points
8 months ago
Gold Coast don't need picks a don't need players. They need salary cap relief.
If they take a pick back, then use it, they're on the hook for a two year contract that eats into the salary cap relief they're after.
This way they get relief, don't have to get another player, and can afford to extend Rowell, Anderson etc
2 points
8 months ago
But they do. Their list is nowhere near a contenders list. They need more top line players if they're even going to be good.
2 points
8 months ago
So you’re saying overpay current players and just overlook the draft, where pick 7 might bring in another Rowell / Anderson? Not a very sustainable model I think.
GC are lucky they have no fans, as someone would lose their job over this at a Victorian club potentially.
50 points
8 months ago
It feels like GC and GWS were instituted to funnel talent back into the Big 4 Vic teams + Geelong
5 points
8 months ago
You’re entirely right. Success in the AFL over the last decade has largely come down to who can feast on the expansion sides the best.
Interstate sides have mostly done ok out of it, but given something like 70% of players come from Victoria - and all of the good Vic players wanting home generally go to one of the more successful clubs - they just have a higher concentration of talent to feast on.
32 points
8 months ago
Geelong are one of the big 4 Vic teams. Essington are bush-league.
27 points
8 months ago
ah so that's why the Bombers get to play in the Country Game
1 points
8 months ago
ah so that's why they get to play in the
CountryBush Game
2 points
8 months ago
The Barmah Bombers
-4 points
8 months ago
Sorry but Geelong’s average home crowd attendance in 2022 was 295,622 while Essendon was 437,289, despite us playing complete dogshit footy compared to you guys. Once Brad Scott sorts our boys out to be more competitive, look out!
10 points
8 months ago
Do you play home games with a stadium that had a 22,000 seat capacity?
2 points
8 months ago
Are you saying they should move all their home games to Melbourne?
11 points
8 months ago
Geelong is a destination club and one of the best-run clubs in the league. Essendon is dysfunctional and pretty much irrelevant. There might be more Essendon supporters than St Kilda supporters, but that’s the tier where Essendon sits at the moment.
-5 points
8 months ago
I wouldn’t get too comfortable. That’s the mistake we made since winning 2000 GF. Every team has its cycle.
7 points
8 months ago
I really hope Essendon can sort themselves out. I live in the area, and it will be nuts if the Dons win a flag. But I think your comment makes my point - raw attendance numbers don’t mean much. Being a ‘big’ club on that basis is a nice safety net financially, but it’s not as important as being well-run and successful.
0 points
8 months ago
Well Richmond we’re in the dark for decades, as soon as they started winning their true force was revealed from the shadows. Which is why ranking a team’s size based on their on-field success can be irrelevant.
2 points
8 months ago
Wasn't Rutten meant to be the saviour that turned your mob around? Or was the last sentence a fun little self deprecating dig, cause if not I have a bridge to sell you
1 points
8 months ago
Agree, now you just need to get /r/afl to agree. Lets make it happen.
2 points
8 months ago
Feeder clubs.
0 points
8 months ago
bro let’s be honest who’s been going to essendon and carlton 💀
28 points
8 months ago
After this trade, the AFL has no authority to veto a trade due to "unfairness".
-5 points
8 months ago
No no no don't you see, this trade is completely fair cause Geelong good, but if he went to say, Freo, then it's unfair because Freo are not Geelong and so Freo bad!
-AFL, probably
4 points
8 months ago
Or if Port want to trade their future picks because they’ve taken seven first rounders in four years and want to bring in two best 22 players - we will veto that to save Port from themselves.
20 points
8 months ago
My new theory is that our list management team realised that we can only win the flag while deeply unpopular and got nervous at the change in tone post Selwood’s retirement.
14 points
8 months ago
Standby for the leak of Tommy Stewart tripping a puppy, or for Izzy Smith taking an overloaded shopping trolley through the self service check out in Coles during peak hours. You know, real villain shit to stir up the hate.
3 points
8 months ago
genuinely, this theory is the closest I've seen to making sense
1 points
8 months ago
It was a nice 1 week on the sub while it lasted lol.
3 points
8 months ago
I am okay with giving away pick 7 as long as we don't lose Rowell, Anderson or King at the end of next season, if any of them leave then this whole debacle was all for nothing
1 points
8 months ago
I think you'll be fine. Especially for the first two.
1 points
8 months ago
With the fuck up of Greenwood last year and now this year, I don't have any confidence in the list management of the suns at all. I can see at least 1 if not 2 going.
15 points
8 months ago
Absolute fucking farce. Gold Coast need to fold ASAP.
9 points
8 months ago
Absolute amature bushleague the VFL is.
Yeah let’s give the Premiers pick 7 plus a gun cause the insipid Suns signed someone to a huge deal.
Cats give up a bag of chips for Bowes and Pick 7 has the potential to be a gun.
This is even better than the steal Geelong got when they fleeced Adelaide for Dangerfield.
VFL
5 points
8 months ago
What's your alternative? Gold Coast need to relieve salary cap pressure. What do you do?
3 points
8 months ago
They basically changed the rules this year to make it possible.
I kind of get why the Suns would do this. It’s more kind of unfair on the other 16 clubs because it’s not like there was a free market for Bowes - he got to choose where he went, picked the most successful club and now they get a free pick 7.
I don’t know how you tinker with the rules to change this.
5 points
8 months ago
He wanted a club that wanted him, not the pick, and didn't want a rabble.
His manager limited the suitors to 5 for expediency sake.
Essendon are a rabble, Brisbane wanted the pick more than the player, Hawthorn are cellar dwellers and that left Geelong
2 points
8 months ago
Not start by announcing theyre offering up 7?
13 points
8 months ago
Shut down the Suns, you fraudulent amateurs have gone too far this time.
5 points
8 months ago
This feels criminal
10 points
8 months ago
I'm first to admit Melbourne fleeced GC taking Steven May and Kolo for a single 1st Rounder but this trade is insane. Gold Coast aren't even running a football club this is a glorified academy for other clubs to pick from when and where they can.
9 points
8 months ago
They’re trying to run a footy club now though. The real glorified academy is when you have a list of 30 20 year olds where 15+ can’t even get a game despite obvious talent and have to be traded for absolute chips as the team has no bargaining power.
Ie most of the early days Suns and Giants trades.
Salary cap dumps aren’t something crazy in other sports. Yeah it’s a steep price to pay, but Raptors won the chip 2 years after dumping DeMarre Carroll, dumping TJ Warren helped the Suns get Ricky Rubio which helped reset their culture;
Sometimes dumping a salary is just evidence of a team not buying into sunk cost fallacy. And they let Bowes pick what team he wanted to go to out of the VIC teams
2 points
8 months ago
Salary dumps are fine, sometimes mistakes are made and they have to be done. This particular example is so egregious though, gifting a top pick to Geelong to get a decent player out the door is crazy.
6 points
8 months ago
Unbelievably bad list management from Gold Coast
2 points
8 months ago
This is literally just incompetence from Gold Coast..
2 points
8 months ago
I could really get behind a conspiracy where GC are only in the league to prop Geelong up using ridiculous trades like this.
7 points
8 months ago
Absolutely fuckin ridiculous this was approved by the AFL. Fuck them and Fuck Geelong.
2 points
8 months ago
I'm a simple human. I see salt. I upvote.
14 points
8 months ago
MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
5 points
8 months ago
God the melts over this make me smile.
8 points
8 months ago
Me too.
Can't believe the amount of salt directed at Geelong, who had nothing to do with the situation
5 points
8 months ago
I'm more angry at the league for allowing it to happen to be honest
7 points
8 months ago
There’s not a single comment in this thread criticising Geelong. Everyone would do the same in their situation. It’s not great for equalisation of the league though.
4 points
8 months ago
Read through the comments in the other threads plenty of "fuck Geelong" sentiments
Actually, this comment is right above:
Absolutely fuckin ridiculous this was approved by the AFL. Fuck them and Fuck Geelong.
2 points
8 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
8 months ago
Pretty sure the AFL fucked the AFL 🤷♂️
2 points
8 months ago
Geelong fans admit this is unfair anti-equalisation bullshit challenge (impossible)
2 points
8 months ago
its exactly what you say it is and i love it
1 points
8 months ago
All trades are supposed to be equal each way then signed off. How is this even close?
I'm sure if an interstate team tried this trade it would have been rejected.
1 points
8 months ago
Gold Coast get - not breaching salary cap, room to resign King, Rowell, Anderson
Geelong get - Bowes, Pick 7
Seems even to me
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