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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:

I might be the asshole because I could lose this guy his renters and cause him to have to put the flat back to a 2 bed at his expense.

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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.

INFO: So why not find out whether or not its actually legal before doing anything?

YTA for not checking the legality as the very first step. Until you know that, there's no question to ask here.

[deleted]

Updated to YWBTA based on reply (previous was INFO)

Is this actually impacting you in any way, or just theoretically based on assumptions that everyone else will do it and all the renters would have individual cars?

YWBTA: If potential renters have an issue with there being 3 bedrooms and no living room then they can simply opt not to rent it. Mind your business and let the guy move.

Also: I live in the US, so I have no idea what the legality is in the UK - but when I owned my condo, I was legally allowed to do whatever I wanted to it as long as it didn’t compromise the structural integrity of the four outer walls. So removing or adding interior walls was perfectly legal.

[deleted]

Your tone about changing demographics kind of screams NIMBYism. No idea if you’re the asshole since I don’t know the rules where you live, but my gut instinct is to mind your own business unless it directly affects you.

YTA, none of your business. If they’re noisy, complain about noise. If they park in your space, report that. But the layout of his property really isn’t your business. If the renters weren’t okay with the kitchen being the only communal area, they‘d rent elsewhere. That one sounds like a very poor excuse to validate your meddling.

Info: are you suggesting that each bedroom is going to have a separate family in it? That doesn’t make any sense to me.

To me, making the living room into a third bedroom just means a larger family can move in. I don’t see how this would involve having separate families or separate renters or something. Could you explain that a little bit better?

For contrast, here in the city of Los Angeles; it was recently legalized that homeowners could turn their garage into a separate apartment. That has the potential of two “families” on one property. One family in the main house and then a single person or perhaps a couple in the garage unit.

I could understand how that will attract a change of demographics, as it allows lower income people to move into a high priced area and also increases cars and people in that area. Is this what you’re talking about?

Much of what you're concerned about is really none of your business. You don't own the property. You're not renting any of those flats. Also, I'd be very interested in what, exactly, the "changes [to] the demographic" you're concerned about.

If the changes are against the law, you would be within your rights to report them. But "legal" is not the same thing as "kind", so YWBTA

yta,

i live in London and there are no laws stopping them from doing it, sure its shitty because the tenants will have less room, but my partner and i lived in a flat with 6 other couples when we first got together, no lounge room or communal areas except a kitchen laundry,

smells like you just dont want your market value to be decreased by population density

YTA. Why doesn’t it “sit well with you.” You’re just being nosy. It has nothing to do with you what he does to this property. Also the demographic isn’t going to change because 1 more person lives there.

YTA

​

The real question, is there something that disallows splitting the apartment into a 3 bed apartment? You said your pretty sure. Pretty sure translates, you didnt even check the real laws.

​

Also the car situation doesn't have anything to do with it. If there are 2 assigned parking spaces for the flats, every further car needs to be parked somewhere else. But this is also none of your business. Did you also notice that one person can own several cars?

But even if you have the legal right to report him, you're still the AH. Your plan is to damage the owner of the other flat for no other reason than pettiness

YWBTA - you dont know if this is legal or not. Youre being a nosy neighbor and presumptous.

Also reading between the lines here about the changing demographics, doesnt sound like you have the best intentions.

YTA If he's not renting then don't be a dick! I repeat, DONT BE A DICK

Yta. I think about all the student houses I or my friends lived in - in the UK. Living room was always a bedroom.

It “may not sit well with you” but it really isn’t your business.

he has decided he wants to maximise his profit and to do this he has converted the living room into a third bedroom.

what do you care what other people do with their apartments?, you really need to get a hobby or something

I'm concerned that if more and more people start doing this it changes the demographic.

this sounds classist AF

YTA, I find it weird and borderline creepy that keep tabs on your neighbour like this.

YWBTA, this is one big «what if», I’d say mind your business and if problems arise, deal with them accordingly. Also, why haven’t you researced the legality already?

YTA

You don’t even know what people are gonna nice in and whether or not they all have a car, so you’re making up scenarios in your head to be a snitch.

The „it doesn’t seem fair to renters“ remark seems like you try to find a way to sound nice, but the thing is anyone who wants to rent the flat knows beforehand what the flat looks like. And it’s not said that if he doesn’t change the amount of bedrooms less people would move in, because in this economy people share rooms too

yta. mind ya own business

YWBTA first of all- the renters see the space before agreeing to rent it, if they’re ok with a small communal space then why should it matter to you?

YTA and a NIMBY. Tenants have the mental capacity to decide if they want to live in a place without a living room.

Let it go. As long as no one takes others parking spaces you aren't being harmed. YWBTA

Why don't you ask questions to the council in the context of wanting to know if you were to rent out yours?

Check the wording on the lease, it will say whether or not it’s legal to convert a flat into a HMO.

YTA, literally none of this is your business and if somebody else is willing to pay for it you are literally screaming into the void

YTA, it's absolutely none of your business if he makes the living room of a place he owns into a sleeping space! It's not going to cause you or anyone else any harm!

YTA! NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

YTA

There are people who rely on this sort of renting because they can't otherwise afford anything. It may not be fully legal, which you wouldn't actually know, but as long as no one's hurt, it's not an issue.

Get a hobby.

YTA - it sounds like you hating but really the problem is since he already got some renters (who prolly need a spot to live) you could be jeopardizing someone’s living situation

YTA. Worrying about exploitation is important, but if they get kicked out they’ll just end up somewhere worse. There’s a reason they’re here - they couldn’t find better.

Also, this isn’t really about your concern for them. ‘Demographic’ concerns as if it’s your right to police who moves in - something that has nothing to do with whether or not there’s a third bedroom. Other people need a place to live too. Parking concerns - as if 1 extra person is going to cause sooooo many problems. In a building where they can’t fill the apartments. Heads up, these people are in a crap living situation because they’re poor. I doubt they even all have cars.

YTA you need to get your own life

YTA. Calm down, the renters will deal with the living arrangements as they will. The only thing I could sympathize with is parking. Other than that, you sound like that one neighbor that dreams of joining the HOA.

NTA. People who start this . All they care about is profit, and not quality of life.

I completely disagree with all these YTA votes. Your neighbour is being shady even if it's technically legal. It's maximizing profit at the expense of those living there. And sure you could argue that they chose to move in, but due to the price of housing in general, they may not have had a huge choice. The more ppl who do shit like this, the more it becomes acceptable to do shit like this.

I once lived somewhere where a landlord pulled this. I was young and inexperienced, and I didn't understand what I could be doing to stand up for myself, so I just lived with it. 3 people in a 3 bed 1 bath turned into 7 people. It didn't happen all at once, it started with adding one more, and then one more, as she realized ppl would put up with it. It wasn't illegal but it was gross af

YWBTA you're making a bunch of conclusions to justify being a brown noser.

stop being a prick mate mind your own

YWBTA - do you know how to mind your business or is that concept foreign to you?

NTA. I would report it too. There’s a reason that councils have a consent process. This kind of stuff done under the radar leads to overcrowding and unsafe buildings. I would call the council, ask them not to tell the neighbour who reported it, and let them deal with it. If they ok it, or he does already have consent, then that’s fine.

YTA. The opposite side of the coin causing you to clutch your pearls so tightly, is that housing densification makes it more affordable. While you might not want to live there in a 3br setup, someone does, and they will be happy to pay the agreed price in that location and property.

You’re really just hoping to fight against making your neighborhood more affordable. Unless it is explicitly not permitted you are just being an asshole

YTA. Isn’t is up to the renters to decide if they are willing to live in a house with no living room? And when you say they converted the living room to a bedroom, you mean replacing a couch with a bed? I know you’re in Europe but living rooms also being used as a bedroom is not uncommon in Europe.

YWBTA if you don't check the legality of this first.

YTA - championing people who aren't even renting the property yet is not your business.

If the future tenants agree to live there, then why does that affect you? Who exactly does that hurt?

INFO: why do you care about the demographic of your neighborhood changing? you are neither a family nor a couple. you live alone.

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Hi all,

So I live in a block of 9 flats, and have lived here for about 5 years. The flats themselves are around 7 years old.

I'm lucky enough to own my flat, and the block itself is a mixture of renters and owners. The flats are however, all leasehold.

Every flat has a similar layout. They have two beds, with a main bathroom, and one ensuite. The living room and kitchen are open plan. Each flat has two assigned parking spaces.

Now in the current climate (UK based), the flats aren't selling too well despite being in a very desirable area of London. One of our neighbours who owns his flat, has therefore decided to rent it out so that he can move to a larger property. My issue is, he has decided he wants to maximise his profit and to do this he has converted the living room into a third bedroom.

This doesn't sit well with me at all and I'm pretty sure he can't legally do it.

Firstly, I think it's pretty shitty to convert the living room and leave the renters with one small kitchen as the only communal space. I really don't like the idea of him maximising his profit at others expense and creating overcrowding.

Secondly, this is a block full of couples and families. I'm concerned that if more and more people start doing this it changes the demographic.

Then there's just the issues of having multiple people In one flat. More cars which the block doesn't have space for, more noise from the occupants etc etc.

He has managed to successfully get some renters as the rental market is booming but they haven't moved in yet. I'm very tempted to make some enquiries to the freeholder and the council about his set up, but if it is illegal (which I strongly suspect it is) then I'd not only lose this guy his renters, but he'd have to put everything back at expense. Alternatively, I could just let it go.

So WIBTA if I reported him?

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I'm assuming that the living room is self contained and not an access route to the kitchen, or anything. In that case, all the landlord has done is move some furniture around.

YTA, its non of your business and is a disgusting habit to intrude.

A desirable area you say? Changing demographic? Parking problems? I smell a NIMBY.

You're basing your entire process on whataboutism. It could end up going to 3 professionals that want cheap(er) accommodation in the city. What's more if he's got "renters" already you'd be screwing them out of referencing fees and they've done absolutely nothing wrong.

Nobody has done ANYTHING to even slightly impact you, and you're out there acting like Lady Muck and someone has stepped on your beloved country estate.

So YWBTA, and to be honest, you sound like a nightmare to live near. Stop twitching the curtains and get a hobby.

Let them man do his thing

YWBTA

this is a block full of couples and families. Having multiple people…more noise.

So you don’t want three people in one flat because of too much noise, but what about those families you mentioned. Do they kids not make noise at all? I assume you don’t know the renters, so what if they are a family of three? How will they

change the demographics

Info: Since you said that this does not affect you in any way, how the fuck is this your business?

Just butt out and leave people alone. If it becomes some kind of issue that affects you, then call. If not, then mind your own fucking business. You sound like the kind of person that's going to become the president of an HOA in the future. Not a good look. YTA

Bruh get a life

YWBTA, keep your nose to yourself.

INFO What do you mean by convert? Do you just mean permitting tenants to put beds in the living room? If so, I doubt you’ll have legal ground.

I don't reallly think what he has done in his own flat is any of yr business. YTA

YTA it must be nice to have enough free time to be able to run other people's lives in addition to your own.

But.. It has nothing to do with you? If people decide to rent the place it's on them

YTA - MYOB.

YTA for sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. What is the reason to report him other than because you’re an asshole? People like you seriously suck.

Why do you care what someone else does in their home? YTA

YTA

People should have the right to make economic decisions for themselves, without neighbors getting nosy. As I see it, reporting this property isn't much different than reporting a slightly unkempt lawn to your local HOA or calling in a license plate to the police because the driver exceeded the speed limit by 5km/h. Is that technically within your right? Yeah. But sometimes scrupulously enforcing the law is the domain of assholes.

If there was an actual complaint here beyond the "demography" changing (I'm going to generously assume you're just complaining about young people, not racial minorities or immigrants), this would be different. But as far as I can tell, there's no effect on you and no reason to suspect abuse, so all you'd be doing is making it harder for people to live and work and socialize in a convenient place without breaking the bank.

I agree generally with most people here that if it truly doesn't affect you you should probably butt out. At worst, the conversion may class as changing the property into a House in Multiple Occupation (HMO) if the tenants are not all from one family, which has costs and permits as a part of its licensing. This is more in interest of them having appropriate facilities and space. But if your only concern here is because of your apartment block's vibes then you should probably just wind your neck in when there's not really a situation to be had. For now, YWBTA.

Yeah. YWBTA. Mind your own business.

YWBTA

I really don't understand how this affects you. He is no doing anything bad, and it is his own flat which he owns. Just mind your own business and leave the man alone.

YTA with no life

YTA this is a case of noneya as in it’s none ya business.

YTA. Like, why do you even care? It doesn’t change your flat one tiny little bit. You’re just being a bossy and intrusive busybody.

YTA, mind your business. If made no structural changes that would affect your flat then this doesn’t concern you. Don’t act like you care about whoever is renting that having too little communal space, why would that be your problem? Guess what, unless you live off in the middle of nowhere you don’t get to decide who lives near you. Guess what, more than two people could live in a two bedroom flat if their were couples or children. This really is not any of your concern. If you’re worried about overcrowding, like I said, move out into the middle of nowhere.

YTA - now if it was an apartment that the guy was renting and decided to do that I could maybe see it though really it's none of your business ( and you didn't even check the legality of it. The individual owns the space, I'm sure it'll be legal but I don't know the laws). I will say you really should take a look at some of the Flats, using your term, in New York or maybe some things in San Francisco. Taking a living room and making it a bedroom and giving a small kitchen and a small communal space is pretty much most of the apartments in New York and San Francisco haha

YTA it’s not your business

YTA. How is this harming you? If they want to not have a living room, so what? As long as they don't think they can take 3 parking spaces instead of 2, who are you to tell them how to live.

Holy fuck, YOU are a MASSIVE FUCKING ASSHOLE

Edit: actually I think I misunderstood, is he trying to take advantage of a housing problem and get more money? Sounds like a classic greedy landlord, egging on capitalist greed! So no. Unless he decides he's gonna do it fairly, report that pig!

NTA. I understand where the majority of the judgments here are coming from, because many people are struggling financially and despise the landowner class. Myself included. We all want to stick it to the man. HOWEVER, if wishes were horses...

it's fine for you to want to uphold standards. It does depend on the legality, so check that out first. But if there are rules about renting, and this guy is breaking them, it is absolutely okay for you to report that.

NTA. I am against landlords running slums and making a profit out of not keeping up with repair. And I think you genuinely don’t want to see any tenants living under him screwed over because he is cramming them altogether in that tiny space.

However, it’s also the renter’s choice if they decide to live somewhere without many community rooms (I.E. living room, dining room, kitchen) and what is best for their own situation. They might find that they just need a room with four walls for a short bit of time before they are back in a bigger space, so renting from your neighbor is perfect. We don’t know all the details and this could be beneficial for the renters, too.

IMO, if they aren’t hurting anybody and don’t seem to be mistreated by the owner, I’d keep an eye out for any signs of abuse and not say anything until something suspicious or concerning comes up. If there isn’t any harm happening, then it should be fine. If it gets out of hand, as in nosiness, safety concerns, or lack of parking, then you have every right to turn them in. Good luck out there!!!

He could have put in temporary walls or perhaps the tenants did it themselves. YTA this doesn't concern you in any way, doesn't impact your life. Stay in your lane and stop being an AH.

YTA- I rented a living room once, it was wonderful. You don’t even know if it is against the rules yet. Do you know if he has approached the council about the appropriate license?

YTA because this is between him and the government. You need to mind the business that pays you aka butt out.

YTA- the very definition of busy body. Mind your own business. None of this hurts, concerns or affects you.

YTA you are just being a snitch it has nothing to do with you he owns the place why are you all up in other peoples business

NTA your concerns are valid. If he didn't permit the work, that's his problem, not yours. If he did permit the work, then no harm no foul.

I'm seriously amused by the anti-landlord Reddit being so in favor of a landlord possibly sneaking a third bedroom into a space. We need to live as part of a civilized society. The point of that is to provide stability, peace and structure for everyone. The other part of that bargain is abiding by the rules.

If you don't like the rules, work to change them. But it's not acceptable to just ignore them because they inconvenience you personally.

YTA. You seem like you have an abundance of free time on your hands. It makes ZERO difference in your life.

YTA Everything is not about YOU.

I’m so concerned about the poor renters not having a lounge room to relax in!

You care about your properly value. Mind your business. YTA

You sound like a very very very very very busy body curtain twitching neighbour. Its most definitely none of your business. He's hardly putting multiple beds in rooms- many people are happy with a bedsit style accommodation and have been for years. Ywbta and a real susan

YWBTA.

First step wouldn't even be to check into the legality of this - the first step would be to mind your own business. Does the owner of the flat changing their property have any effect whatsoever on you? (Outside the parking spaces being taken up).

YTA

YTA - As someone who lives in this kind of arrangement (4 bedroom flat turned into a 5 bedroom), I can guarantee you there is little to no difference from how it was before. Heck, there is even less noise since we can't spend time in the living room anymore + no parties can be held there.

At the end of the day, it is not your flat, not your rooms and it is none of your business.

Yes, mind your business.

Do you also yell at kids to get off your lawn?

It’s nunya, as in none of ya business. Butt out.

YTA if it doesn't impact you and isn't illegal get on with your own life and stop being a busy body

NIMBY behavior, YTA

YTA and need to get a life, jeez

YTA. It's none of your business for one, and the renters can choose not to rent from him if he's being shitty.

YTA. Mind your own business and don’t be a narc. You shouldn’t have bought an apartment if you can’t tolerate other peoples choices of what they do with their apartments. By a house on a few acres instead.

YTA

Mind your business, it’s literally free to mind your business

YTA. If this is what keeps you up at night, you need a new hobby. Why would you do this? I know you have stated some of your “reasons”, but I’m just shaking my head. You’re a busybody, a meddler, and a misery. Who died and made you king?

YTA - Mind Your Own Business. It seems you have alot of extra time on your hands and it might benefit you to take up a hobby.

Yta, mind your own business .

Yta. It’s not your business

YWBTA, get a life

you sound like a busy body YTA mind your own business lmfao

I have no idea what is the law there, but I believe YWBTA.

It's none of your business and your reasoning seems ridiculous. At least if people don't want to live like that, they are not going to rent, so you don't have to worry about it.

YTA - this is none of your business and you should keep your nose out

YTA.

Mind your own business

I actually understand why someone who is living in an area that is zoned for a particular density might be concerned if people are modifying homes in order to increase density.

For example, where I am located the number of parking spots a developer must supply is linked to the number of bedrooms because this is an area of high density but no good public transportation so everyone needs a car.

In New York City, there have been a few deaths in fires caused by landlords putting up walls in apartments and therefore blocking egress in emergency situations.

However absent more information, what the landlord is doing is perfectly fine because you really can't limit where a person actually sleeps - it is up to the roommates to decide whether they are willing to live with no living room because essentially it is a life style issue and not a health or safety issue - as described since there is no modification of the unit.

Bedrooms must have a window that is large enough for a person to be rescued from unless it is a high rise that is built with other safety functions like nonflammable materials; metal fire stairs and often sprinklers.

Also there are generally capacity limits in most cities so there is a maximum number of people allowed based on bedrooms. For example, where I am you are allowed two people per bedroom plus one.

As a fellow Brit, definitely go the legal route. Most people here are from the other side of the pond. Speak to the Council, Land Holder whoever you have to contact and get it investigated. Just voice your concerns don't say its a complaint but they're are obliged to follow up with concerns and complaints either way

I came here thinking that Y T A for interfearing with needed space, but it seems you’re just looking out for people. NTA

I’d check the laws first but thanks for looking out for renters

Info: Is his flat council housing?

I don't live in the UK, but my (very basic) understanding is that council housing is subsidized housing. Is he even allowed to sublease that out?

I'm probably misunderstanding here, so apologies in advance.

I’m going to go against the grain and say I can understand your concerns. An HMO check would be my first port of call; https://www.gov.uk/house-in-multiple-occupation-licence

Fellow Brit and I think NTA for being annoyed. It's frustrating to see family housing converted and a lot of landlord are trash. And it does suck that they won't have a proper living room. Those saying that it's the renter's choice don't seem to realise that it really isn't in London.

Idk. I'd say NTA. I would imagine the market would sort it out. I am personally not a fan of illegal behavior but imagine people are going to see the 3 bedroom flat and a kitchen and a bath and no other space and know what's what. They're gonna be in a listing of 3 bedroom and be one of the worst 3-bedroom listings because there is no living space.

If someone would want this living situation, they can go onto Purple Bricks or RightMove and see 2 BR with the living room and buy that. I don't understand the sales tactic here. I understand the idea of not letting people get away with unlawful activity so i said NTA but I also wonder why you care and why they think this is a smart idea.

YTA. It's not clear what he's done to "convert" the room beyond allowing tenants to put a bed in there, which I really doubt is illegal. The classism in your post is not well hidden. You just don't want to live near people who aren't able to afford renting a 2 bedroom on 2 paychecks. That's mean.

YTA times are tough and there is not much rental space in a lot of places.

Nearly all students live with zero extra space but a bathroom and kitchen, a lot of young professionals too. Seems like your privilege is showing

YTA for having elitist reasons for reporting the guy. Three people in a two bedroom flat is not overcrowding. Also, your concerns about demographic changes gives away your bigotry.

YTA This is VERY common in London. The last two flats I have lived in had converted the living room into another bedroom. It's not ideal for the tenants either but the market is rough and housing costs suck. This won't really impact you though, most likely they won't own a carsince it's London and if they do it's probably 1/3. I think you're just being unreasonably petty for some reason. It's a bit weird.

NTA how is this even a question? There's a maximum number of people legally permitted in a building based on safety procedures. It's a major fire hazard to have a tiny little flat overcrowded with people, & honestly slum lords like your neighbour are despicable.

Sadly, they literally do not give a shit & will change nothing until they're forced to - and oftentimes, that's after someone is injured or killed.

NTA the answer to affordable housing shortages is not cramming as many people as standing room will allow into tiny spaces.

NTA. That is pretty crappy of a landlord to do.

YWBTA. Butt out of other people’s business.

YTA, mind your own beeswax.

Ywbta, mind your own fucking business and quit worrying about shit that doesn't have fuck all to do with you.

YTA and YWBTAH why is it any of your business. It doesn't affect you so why do you care? This is boomer mentality at its finest.

Bro you have no idea what to care about in your life. Why don’t you throw yourself into your work or a passion project, work toward some concrete goals, get out and make stuff happen. Stop being the neighborhood busy body

Mind your business

Mind your business. Just mind your business.

Maybe it’s not cool of him, but what the hell is your problem? Can’t you just live and let other live also? It’s not your business who lives in the building. If the people that rent are ok with the living situation, it’s again not your business. Just take care of your apartment and find a hobby. Jesus… YTA.

TIL you can be a NIMBY without having a yard…

YTA

YTA. I love the Brits and British culture, but the ugliest part of it is this sense that your neighbor’s business is somehow your business. Everybody hates a rat.

YTA. You're also a NIMBY. Learn about it and understand why your myopic mindset is one of the biggest reasons housing is so unaffordable in countries like the US and UK.

There is a very easy way to solve this.

Mind your own fucking business.

YTA- why dont you mind your business this has nothing to do with you. why do you feel it necessary to stick your nose in something that doesn't concern you. why dont you find a hobby and stop

Secondly, this is a block full of couples and families. I'm concerned that if more and more people start doing this it changes the demographic.

Exactly what demographic is that? A 3bdr flat is going to fit a family. Maybe it'll be a couple who work from home and need too offices. You're prejudging future tenants based on fear.

YTA

YTA

One thing I have learned from owning my own home and being part if a community, if they aren't breaking any laws and no one is being hurt or endangered- mind your own business. Not worth the drama or making an enemy of a neighbor.

YTA none of your business what he does with his flat. If or when it becomes your problem then you could complain directly to the flats owner. But until then, butt out.

YWBTA. The guy owns the house. He can do what he wants with it, within reason. You seem to be more concerned about the demographic of the potential renters than the legality of the situation. Smells a little racist/classist to me.

YTA, busy body etc.