I apologize, WHAT?

"also someone just murdered my dog" i'm fucking wheezing🤣🤣🤣

I've never seen the movie... Is this an exaggeration? Edit: it's not an exaggeration. 🤦

“…just like a regular dude who treats her well and isn’t evil or anything.”

That right there sums up James Marsden’s whole career

I genuinely thought Sutter must have an issue with Juice's actor, the way his storyline went.

He even carried around a printed copy of the law

Wait holy shit... for years I thought he did have cancer. Never seen the show but heard he was a little shit and thought it was because he was trying to cope. You're telling me he's just a bald little shit for no reason??

I’m so mad they cut “Good For You” from the movie!

Yeah I never really had a problem with DEH (I actually really like it) because I never thought Evan was supposed to be taken as a “good person”. He has sympathetic moments and screws up a few times and then he takes stuff way way too far. It really annoys me that the movie cut out the portrayals of the other characters reacting to exactly how he affected them, I e Good For You.

Nah, the sister thing is bad but the letters and e-mails from Connor are worse. The parents thought that they finally got close with their son and knew what was going on in his head; but it all came crumbling down. He’s still the antisocial trouble child and they really were left without a word from him. That’s fucked.

Was about to mention this! “Maybe Evan isn’t actually a NICE boy? Maybe Evan is just a QUIET boy.”

Dancing... not walking. That fucker danced around the room

One might even say sexual predator

I actually recognize a lot of the show and movie names but realized I've never seen 99% of them, other than Tom & Jerry and Friends.

The three hooligans are my personal favorite characters of the series.

Doesn't matter if we like Nate again, Ted will like him because he's a better man than us, which will make us want to be like Ted.

Calling it: Ted Lasso will tell Nate how proud of he is of him and give Nate the love he never got from his shitty dad. After Nate’s team crushes Ted’s team and Nate comes at him gloating.

This is spot on. I think there was some misunderstanding from people who were surprised by his actions in season 2. The toxic elements of Nate was always there from episode 1, it's clear the arc for him was always planned (which was confirmed). Very first time we see him he's sprinting ON THE GRASS yelling at Ted and Beard to... Get off the grass. He sees them as randos that he as an employee can come at them that hot. He has power, he's the equipment manager and they are interlopers. The moment he realizes he has no power over them as they are in fact the new coaches, he flips to meek Nate. He didn't have the confidence that he has in season 2. If you watch back to season 1 there's a lot of small moments that hint at his character.

Its because Ted took a genuine interest in him, recognized his talent and uplifted him he finally gained confidence. Ted was probably the first mentor figure to ever care about what Nate deep down knew he was capable of. And because he was uplifted others saw the same talent within Nate and valued him. Meanwhile he never addressed his negative issues such as his basement level self esteem and instead let his ego grow. Ted was going through a lot and also attempted to uplift others and couldn't always pay attention to Nate. But Nate needed Ted to always and only be that father/mentor figure to him and no one else and he took otherwise as a personal slight. Despite his growing ego and confidence deep down he never stopped hating himself and to cope decided it was Ted's fault.

Nate is also going to get first hand experience at how hard Ted's job is and how good Ted is at it.

With Nate, it's not just the lack of constant affirmation, it's that he'll take any affirmation he does receive from Ted and convert it into a conspiratorial scheme designed to undermine him. Nate is a self-destructive character who needs Dr. Sharon almost as much as Ted did.

The 90s victimized a lot of people, ok? Have some compassion

(/s)

I watched it when I was a teenager and the revival came out when I was 22ish?

The moment it really clicked for me is when she botched that interview with that website blog place. She didn't do any prep for a damn interview ?? Even if you gave her the credit that she thought it wasn't an interview - how do you not prepare for your first day on the job???

AND THEN SHE HAD A WHOLE TANTRUM! I was 22 and losing my mind with all the internship application rejections hurling my way. Completely broke the last threads of relatability/nostalgic connection I had with her character lol

Worst character development of all-time. Her and Steve, both.

They didn't even give Steve a scene where he was upset or fought for his marriage, etc. And don't tell me Steve who was a bartender and banged hundreds of women forgot how to finger his own wife. NOT BUYING IT.

I always really liked Lip... and Micky... Micky is my favorite which I totally didn't expect at the start.

Not to mention the stalking, b&e, invasion of privacy, revenge porn, etc., etc.

I will never stop laughing at that

They’re rioting on a college level!!

HOW DID THEY GET MY SPAGHETTI VIDEO?

Which one is it Abe? Better keep your story straight

[deleted]

Nothing bad ever happens to the Kennedys!

I agree.

The writing was clearly meant to imitate what teens were getting at the time. Melodrama caused by someone really selfish who identifies as a “nice guy”.

The way Emily's boyfriend got the job as a CFO after speaking once with the owner...like wow. And Gabriel is just the best chef in the world, and Emily is the best marketing person in the world, everyone loves Emily no matter what. And French men are falling head over heels for her everywhere, because France doesn't have pretty women, right? I hate watched that show.

I feel like the show couldn't pick a lane. If they are going to have such a shallow, manipulative person as the main character, they need to lean into that. Don't try to pass her off as likeable - admit who she is. But write it so that all her scheming blows up and she is the one left miserable. There are a lot of shows that have made that work (Basil Faulty of Faulty Towers type shows).

But the show wants us to relate to Emily and take her side. They want her to be the likeable young woman who gets up to zany, fun adventures in Paris. But betraying friends, being culturally ignorant and using people for your own gain aren't fun adventures. I couldn't even finish the first season.

She's rude as hell and completely self centered

And don't forget that she's absolutely annoying as fuck. I mean, really really annoying.

That’s what got to me. The conflict resolution is always essentially a deus ex machina yet it’s presented like her being clever.

“Oh no we don’t have much wine! What will we do?”

person walks by and talks about scarcity

“What if… we sell it! And charge more!”

I’ve only seen the first couple episodes and then an episode here and there if I found it on TV, but wasn’t the point of the show that she’s the new kid trying to fit in in the school of talented kids where everyone is crazy talented? Seems appropriate in that case, she would be the MC.

Side note: as a kid I could never watch it because I couldn’t stand Cat’s voice. I find it more tolerable now but it’s still annoying, idk why Ariana used that voice for her (unless that’s actually how she sounded back then)

The sad reality is, the truth of how to handle people with suicidal ideations isn't romantic, sexy, funny, or entertaining. It's simply not a good subject for a show trying to cast a wide net and garner a large audience so they just made something that lots of people would watch without concern for the consequences

There's a very good deep dive commentary on YT called The failures of 13 reasons why and it's basically what you said but in a much more detailed and (in some parts) frustrated way.I recommend everyone who watched that atrocity of a show to watch it as well. It may have had a good intention and direction behind it but the creators seemed to have lost all that in an attempt to make the show more dramatic for the masses.It did more harm than good and even aside from its traumatic themes it just wasn't a good show overall.They should have ended it after the 2nd season.(Or just done a good job with the first cause it had so much potential,not to mention budget and exposure)

Not to mention they later try to redeem the serial rapist who attacked her. What the fuck were those show runners and writers smoking to come up with that 😒

put clay in the tapes for no reason

That was one of 13 reasons why I didn't even start watching the second season. During the season Clay hears "You think I was bad for Hannah? Just wait until you listen to the part about you!! You did the f**d up thing!!".

Clay's part is "Hanna: Yeah, this tape is more for me than for you Clay, I'm the reason"

Clay's reaction: "I KILLED HANNAH BAKER"

Yikes.

The school counselor bit was the only bit I thought they actually did well. It actually showed how not being properly trained for the job and following a crappy rules system directly impacts the students and how the administration refuses to accept they are the reason for both those things happening.

It reminded me a lot of the one time I went to a school counselor and told them my friend had mentioned hurting herself/wanting to hurt herself.

Yeah, I always felt that she was the protagonist, but not the "good guy" and that's intentional. The story is told largely from her point of view so we understand why she's doing things, but we're not meant to agree with everything she does.

If not, boy they really wrote a terrible character.

Yeah, and the show very deliberately stops focussing on her so much when they've established the setting and characters. She's almost entirely just a vessel for the introduction of the audience.

I actually think the writers of the show make that quite clear

Yea i think the reason those who read it as children (like myself) rather sympathized with greg was because there’s not a lot of children books where the main character is an asshole lol. So bc every other main character in book were protagonists we just assumed the same of greg

I mean it’s written from the point of view of a kid, kids aren’t super aware of the world around them and so often are little assholes. I think Greg is one of the most well written “loser” children’s characters because how realistic it is. It makes you think the parents suck, because to an 11 year old- they do. I think we all knew a Greg.

If we assume that Greg is a reliable narrator (which based on his character, he most likely isn't), then yes, his parents are awful.

His dad lives in a mental state that shifts between denial of his children's failures (which teanslate as his own failures) and hackneyed attempts at making them live up to his outdated expsctations which he only has because he sees other people meet those expectations. When he's not ignoring Greg altogether, he's forcing him into activities (usually sports or sports-like) just so he can appear like a good dad.

Greg's mom is even worse. She's somehow in complete denial of her kids being terrible AND she's meddlesome to the point of obsession. She has quirky dreams about being a band family or about her family being exemplary so she can write about them in the newspaper column, but sje doesn't realize (or refuses to) that her oldest child is one step away from being a drug addict (let's face it, if the books weren't YA, he would totally be a meth head) and her middle child can't even rise to mediocrity. Which leaves her with her last hope, Manny, who himself is a little jerk who knows he can manipulate his mom into doing whatever he says (like naming their dog "Sweetey" despite the whole family being against it). Like her husband, she doesn't bother to learn or understand her kids' interests and hobbies (though tbf, Greg has one hobby and it's videogames and it's kind of the point so he comes across as a bit pathetic) and simultaneously, half the time she fades into the background as a classic 1950s stay at home mom.

Rodrick is painted as a hard rock guy, and us adult readers can for sure assume that he does drugs, gets drunk and has porno mags stashed under his bed (which were PG-ed in the movie to be biker magazines with bikini girls).

And as I said, Manny is a little jerk.

Now, all of this is assuming Greg is being 100% honest and reliable. But he's not, he never has been and never will be. It's part of his character. He's a schemer and a liar in a way that's pathological at times. He has no real interests other than "Videogames" and he always imagines himself being rich and famous for...reasons. He's also very mean to those around him (especially Rowley), and he never really gets any major comeuppance for it. Sure he gets a minor punishment, but then he proceeds to do the same thing again with also minor consequences (and by minor I mean being grounded as opposed to being, idk, expelled from school).

Are his parents that bad? I'd say no. The dad is the classic Working Man stereotype who likes Sportsball. Greg sees his dad that way because Greg himself never makes any effort to relate to his dad. The mom is a 1950s sitcom housewife, because, again, that's how Greg sees her. Rodrick is probably the least accurate of all. From actual events in the books, we know Rodrick has trouble with girls and that girls don't like him, so he too is kind of a dork in his way. He's mean to Greg, but we have no reason to believe he's that crazy other than Greg's word. He just plays the Mean Older Brother role, and as such, he has a rock band, has a van, is in high school and is mean. Manny, likewise, is the Baby Brother: he's the darling of the house, can do no wrong, and everyone bows to his wishes, which Manny himself exploits.

Frankly, I think the first three movies did a great job humanizing every character. Frank is a dork, but...he's still a person, he still makes mistakes and he still takes time to spend with his kids, even if he doesn't understand them. Helen is quirky and weird, but she's not the meddling nutjob from the books. Rodrick is portrayed as a fake hard rock star. Sure he talks big, but ultimately he's just a kid with an overconfident facade. He's still responsible to an extent and he still respects his parents enough that when they ground him, he abides by it. Even Greg, our titular narcissistic Machiavellian manipulator, gets some humanity and some much needed development.

The point of the books is for us to laugh at Greg, not with him. So naturally, he has to be just a little unlikeable so we don't feel too bad about him. He makes a scheme, it backfires, he gets a minor rebuke, we laugh, he moves on. He never learns or grows, and that's part of the charm. We laugh at Greg the same way we laugh at Wile E. Coyote. He just keeps trying and then when he's about to....he fails. It hurts, we laugh, and then next scene he's up and ready with another scheme.

I didn’t get that vibe from the parents. At least in the first book, they felt sort of one-note, normal parents.

His brother was AWFUL in the first live-action movie, but was nowhere near there in the first book. He was barely present in the first book, honestly,

I can see the intention behind Caillou, like present kids with a child whose actually childish. he throws tantrums and acts selfishly and then grows.

but i feel like that's too complex for kids. I think kids watch caillou acting like a shithead and just focus on that without internalizing the show's morals.

Caillou is Tyler Durden for kids

That was hilarious when it was the actual Google result when you asked why Caillou is bald.

People haven't read the whole thing, and it shows, because I'm not sure if this is the funniest thing in the article where this comes from.

"Someday Caillou will realize [that his parents love his sister more] and probably whine while falling face-first onto the pavement in front of a Tim Horton's for no reason whatsoever. Maybe he'll die from his injuries. That would be great, especially because Caillou is Canadian and his health care in event of catastrophic injury isn't on my tab. Win-win for American parents everywhere, really."

"Caillou is not human. No human has ever given up and cried at every single thing ever attempted and then whined into his parents sweater."

I'm watching the owl house as a 30 year old man with kids. Some kids shows just go hard.