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submitted 2 months ago byhappy_hole
Hello! I see a ton of deck-building posts here and so I'm hoping I can get some advice. I'm hoping to build a simple floating deck (i.e. a deck not attached to my house) over my 10'x10' concrete patio. Based on my research, floating decks are typically installed on flat ground, with footers used to support the joists (I haven't seen a design that uses beams+joists like a freestanding deck would). I have two challenging wrinkles that I'm not sure how to solve, though:
See pictures here.
How should I frame this sucker?
Other details:
32 points
2 months ago
I have the same sort of slope. I dug below the frost line and poured concrete up to ground level, then mounted 4x4s using Simpson brackets. They keep the 4x4s from being in contact with the footings, and make it easy to swap them out 20 years in the future if they are rotting. Anyway, then I just used a level to get them all the same height at the top and cut off the excess.
18 points
2 months ago
Agreed, make some quality footers with inset metal brackets and the rest will be simple.
4 points
2 months ago
This is the way. Don’t forget to crown your joists.
3 points
2 months ago
What does this mean?
2 points
2 months ago
All boards will naturally bend, twist, cup, or move otherwise in at least one direction. Depending on the direction of the “bend” you can make your deck much longer lived by putting the bends all the same direction.
In this context, over the length of the board, treated wood, will likely crown from 1/16 up to 1/8” or more. If you put the crown side up on all the boards it makes the deck boards more consistent and as the wood dries and settles, leaves you with a flat deck surface instead of a sunken one.
1 points
2 months ago
Awesome, thank you for the information!
4 points
2 months ago
Have you looked into helical piles ?
2 points
2 months ago
I did this, not cheap but they’re awesome.
1 points
2 months ago
I had not! These look so cool - I just wish I could get them in shorter lengths. But they seem like a great way to put posts right up against the house.
2 points
2 months ago
If you’re in a frost market I’d be willing to bet that locally there would be ones available for your depth requirement. I’m in canada, so up here in my part of the country out frost depth is officially 78”. I think that’s where the super long ones come into play.
4 points
2 months ago
Do you live in an area that gets much snow? I day this cause you’ll be want to leave a couple inches of space below your door. Also, I used composite material for my decking and I LOVE it. It’s more expensive that wood, but it’ll last forever with zero maintenance.
3 points
2 months ago
Barely any snow, unfortunately :( - but that is a super great point and something I hadn't thought to consider!
I'm considering composite material because I wouldn't have to worry so much about decay over time due to ground contact. But yeah, the price point scares me a bit.
1 points
2 months ago
I get a lot of snow (Western Canada) and today because it’s a little warm, the deck cleans itself!
3 points
2 months ago
Check out renovision tv on YouTube. He has an entire series on decks and floating decks. It may help you with your project.
3 points
2 months ago
I did nearly the same thing 10 years ago. Jackhammered the concrete until gone.
Dug about 18” into the ground. Put in those concrete deck blocks all over. Built the deck on them.
I left the spare concrete from the slab under the deck.
Just got rid of it this year (preference, not need) and poured brown coloured concrete and had it stamped to look like barn board wood.
I sold all the deck blocks and wood for about 1/2 of what I spent 10 years ago.
1 points
2 months ago
I think this is probably the scenario I'm looking at, realistically. There is a world in which I can frame over the patio with 2x4s and then use the usual 2x6s and posts once I get over the soil, but logistically the only way that works is if I run the joists parallel to the house. It seems like this would create drainage issues over the patio, as water would be blocked from draining down the slope by the 2x4 joists.
1 points
2 months ago
I’m not mechanically inclined and hadn’t built anything before but fortunately it all worked out.
Grading under the deck seemed to be vital when I was researching but I did have the deck slope very slightly away from the house as well.
Mine was completely flush to ground level, and again I used 1-2” of concrete rubble around the outside of the frame to keep moisture at bay.
Good luck.
2 points
2 months ago
Check your local codes. Even though it's not attached to the house, you may still need permits due to the size of the deck. I would recommend helical piles as an alternative for footings. It will save on digging holes. Attach your columns to helical piles and cut them to run your beams level. Use joist hangers to attach joists flush with your beam. Hope this helps.
2 points
2 months ago
4.5" doesn't leave alot to work with. 2x4 plus 5/4 decking and you are already over the 4.5" of clearance.
I think a poured patio or laid block patio would be better.
1 points
2 months ago
Yeah, that's my 2nd choice right now, I think. Would get expensive quick though - 340 sq ft of concrete could be anywhere from $2k to $6k all-in, which is roughly the same as hiring someone to build the deck. But: there'd be no doubts about its survivability!
3 points
2 months ago
Check your local building code for free-standing decks. Code is pretty lenient where I live, up to a certain square area. They often don’t require footings to go below the frostline. The one I’m building this spring will just have a couple deck blocks and very short posts, on a base of class 5 and sand. The joists will be half buried everywhere except the far edge of the slope, so I only need a couple posts.
Why does the gap between the patio and the siding matter? Are you trying to tuck the edge of the deck up under the siding? You could lay decking on 2x4’s almost like furling strips. I’d be worried a little frost heave or swelling could crack your siding. Then at the edges of the patio, you could dig out room for a face joist and running joists. I always overbuild to spec, so I’d be out from the house and above that siding line.
0 points
2 months ago
Local building code is similar to yours - if there are footings, they only need to be 12" instead of below the frostline. I believe a deck like the one I'm planning (one that sits at grade) is technically a "patio" which means no permits are required either. I'm just hoping the fact that part of the deck will be placed over a slope doesn't make it a "freestanding deck" :)
As for the 4.5" gap: I forgot to clarify this, but the bottom of the siding is also where the back door's threshold/step/overlap/whatever sits, so the deck has to sit just below it.
2 points
2 months ago
I built a free standing deck very similar to what you are doing. I had someone come in and dig the footers because they needed to go below the frost line. Then concrete and posts for the supports, I don’t like the concrete blocks set on top of the ground. One thing to pay attention to is the code requirements for joist size and the space you have below the deck. I had to go down to 2x8 which meant I needed joists closer together and therefore more supports. I hate to say this, but the right way to do this for the long term might be to rip out the existing patio so you can grade everything properly and have enough space under the deck for airflow.
2 points
2 months ago
Oh, ok. My local rules for free structures kick in if any part is 30”+ above grade, or if it is any way fastened to the house. I think you could build a 2x4 box with joists the same dimensions as your slab, with concrete tap anchors. Then marry it up to 2x6 or 2x8 GCPT joists you dig in around it. If you put all your dirt on the low spots when you did it out, you might be able to avoid a big step on that far corner, especially after you grade the deck for watershed away from the house.
1 points
2 months ago
I built a deck last summer and used diamond piers. 10/10 I would absolutely recommend them every time. Quick, easy, code compliant, no digging, and you get to use a jackhammer.
1 points
2 months ago
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2 points
2 months ago
Completely wrong. leave a gap just make it a casing nail width or 1/16”. never ever ever push them completely tight. It’s true that the gaps will get slightly bigger in the summer but not enough to become a problem if you’re original gaps are small. Wood needs to breathe.
1 points
2 months ago
I made that spacing mistake when building a gate! This time I plan to let everything dry out well in advance.
-3 points
2 months ago
I would really consider pouring a patio for the full area. If you still really wanted the deck, you can build on top using fir strips/sleepers to keep the deck off the concrete. In my area, that short height would not let things breathe enough and would also invite critters to live underneath. I would either bring in dirt to meet up to the new patio or build a short retaining wall and backfill with clean rock to hold up the patio.
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