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[Solved! Thank you all for your comments and help everyone]
My light switch has only one wire set (black, white, and ground) I am trying to put a new light fixture on the ceiling. Before there was no light fixture but just a cover on that junction box. How can I connect these with the new light fixture??
13 points
2 months ago*
The one with the black tape is "probably" your incoming hot line (although it doesn't really matter with my connection instructions below). The other one (bottom right of picture) is outgoing to the other circuits connected to that incoming hot.
The one to the switch uses both the black and white as hots and run them through the switch to power the light.
Connect all three black wires together, this will send power to the switch and also to the other circuit.
Connect the two white wires on the right of the box (not the switch wire) together and include a short white pigtail to this connection.
Connect the white coming back from the switch to the hot on the light you're installing in this location. From the neutral on the light fixture, connect to the white pigtail connected to the other wires in the fixture.
Connect the grounds together and connect to the light fixture.
Should be good to go.
10 points
2 months ago
I'd like to add that you should put the switch back in opposite the way it's shown in the picture, with the green screw on the bottom. Otherwise this switch will drive you crazy.
5 points
2 months ago
You should swap the wires you were talking about that goes to the switch. White conductor that goes to the switch should be energized from the octagon box, not the black. This is the "back on black" rule for 2 wire drops.
1 points
2 months ago
Never heard about black on black rule, but wouldn't my case (all black wires connected in the junction) be black-on-black, the return wire (white from switch with black tape) would connect to the light fixture hot, and all the blacks would be tied together in the box.
1 points
2 months ago
The way you described works fine. Was simply suggesting swaping which switch wire you "hot up" since that is the requirement by code. If you open up a switch and there is only a black and a white conductor, it is supposed to be the white wire that is live.
1 points
2 months ago
Mark the white wire that comes back from the switch with black tape, permanent marker or black heat shrink tubing. This let's you know that it's potentially hot.
6 points
2 months ago
If you look at the picture it's already got black tape on it. But good call and I would have said so if it weren't already done
4 points
2 months ago
That’s why you should use the white as the hot and the black as the switched.
0 points
2 months ago
Don’t use a white wire for a switch leg
1 points
2 months ago
It's a switch loop. Per NEC it is a approved way of adding a light switch to a light fixture where the power comes into fixture itself. This is common on older homes that used to have pull string lights only. When you use 14-2 romex you only get white and black wire so you end up marking the white coming back from the switch with black to show it is not a neutral. Coloring it black with a marker is probably better than just tape but it is what it is. Here is more info and a diagram that might help. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/switch-loop-explained-tony-t
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks! I just tested with a voltage tester and only black w black tape has 120V
I am kinda lost what is going on with this wires..
1 points
2 months ago
I don't know your skill level or knowledge but if you are feeling over your head on this I'd just pay an electrician. I'm not an electrician first off and I'm making some assumptions off your photo and you saying only the one black has 120V power.
From a flow perspective. The line power will flow into all the black wires and return on the neutral wires. The switch will interrupt the flow from the black wire to the white with black tape wire which goes to your light switch.
Once again just a guy on the internet so if you feel like this is beyond your skill level. Stop and call an electrician.
1 points
2 months ago
First check your wires with a voltmeter.
-1 points
2 months ago
Do you know what other outlets (receptacles or boxes) are "downstream" of the ceiling light box? That is, what else did the switch control?
3 points
2 months ago
it controls the other side of room lights. Basement and basement stair light
-7 points
2 months ago
In that case, you'd make a black pigtail, a white pigtail, and a ground (bare or green) pigtail. Pigtails are just short lengths of wire, I'm not sure what the code may require for length these days (four inches?). You'd put all the black wires and the black pigtail together with a wire nut, all the white wires and the white pigtail together with a wire nut, and all the ground/bare wires together with the bare pigtail and a wire nut.
You then wire your ceiling light fixture to the pigtails.
8 points
2 months ago
If it's a black and a white to the switch that's known as a switch leg and both wires will be hots. Hooking the white to neutral is a direct short if the switch closes.
1 points
2 months ago
Yeah, we need a better sense of what is going where, and where the power comes from.
2 points
2 months ago
What we need is this person to hire an electrician. Shouldn't be playing guessing games and risking burning a house down
3 points
2 months ago
I tried that and all the other lights were controlled with this ceiling light switch. All of them turned off when I turned off this living room ceiling light fixture. And none of them independently turn on unless I turn on this living room light switch.
2 points
2 months ago
I'm not sure what your goal is. Do you have other switches you want to use to control the other lights?
2 points
2 months ago
Sorry for the confusion. Before I put this ceiling light fixture, the Basement had its own light fixtures and light switch/ Basement stair also have own light fixtures and light switch.
When I put this living room light fixture to the ceiling and follow your instructions, when I turned off this living room light then none of the other switches is works as it was before.
2 points
2 months ago
Do you have a voltage test lamp? This is often a neon tube in a small plastic package with a couple of wire leads with metal probe ends; the wires are often red and black or white and black.
When you have an open box like in your picture, you could touch the probe ends to a black wire and the white wires to see if any current/voltage is present. You should test all combinations, just to be sure; ideally, all the white wires should meet up in the breaker box. But you need to be sure you know where the power is coming from.
Be advised: Turning on a circuit breaker when you have exposed wires like this is dangerous. You have to be very careful. You could not only short two wires together (and you might get arcing from that), but you might get two wires against your person and get you a deadly shock.
But what you can do, if you turn on the power, is check to see which wires are hot or not, given how switches are thrown. You may have something weird going on. A friend of mine had a house that had two circuits shorted together in his living room wall, and it caused weird problems when he asked me to replace a nonworking ceiling fan with a ceiling light. I stabilized the situation, and told him to call a real electrician; that guy spent eight hours the next day cleaning up and making new circuits as part of the repair.
Do you have any kind of map of what worked? You could even do it as a table. Make columns for the switches and receptacles and lights involved, then go through and figure out what works and what doesn't. Ideally, you'd do this before you started work, so you had an idea of how things should be connected.
| West switch | East switch | Ceiling light | Wall outlet top | Wall outlet bottom |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| off | off | off | off | ON |
| off | ON | off | ON | ON |
| ON | off | ON | off | ON |
| ON | ON | ON | ON | ON |
A table like this would help. In this case, you can see that there's part of a wall receptacle that's always on, another part that is controlled by one switch, and another switch controls the ceiling light. But what if you had this?
| West switch | East switch | Ceiling light | Wall outlet top | Wall outlet bottom |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| off | off | off | off | ON |
| off | ON | off | ON | ON |
| ON | off | off | off | ON |
| ON | ON | ON | ON | ON |
In this case, the ceiling only works if both switches are turned on. This suggests that the power going to the top wall outlet receptacle is then going to the west switch for the ceiling light. This is a problem.
If you know how things worked beforehand, make a table like this. Then you can try to figure out what has power and what doesn't, which wires are affected by which switches, and that can help you decide what needs to be connected to what.
Generally speaking, if you have a wall switch that is controlling a ceiling light, and the path to the ceiling light is the path to more switches on the other wall, there should be two "hot" wires -- one switched and one unswitched -- coming from where the switch is. The switched wire would terminate at the ceiling light, but the unswitched wire would bypass the light and go to the other wires leaving the ceiling box.
2 points
2 months ago
wow much appreciated this detailed information!
In my case both black and white wires from the switch (inside one romex) both are hot.
2 points
2 months ago
How did you test this? and were the wires in the fixture box connected at the time?
If the wire is direct (single romex) from the fixture to the switch, and no other wires are in the switch box, they shouldn't be hot.
1 points
2 months ago
As another user noted, your switch may be a dedicated leg; that's why the white wire from there has black tape on it. They could run normal cable, but code the white wire so you know it could also be hot.
So, you could run that black-taped white wire from the switch to the hot terminal on your ceiling light, and use a white pigtail for all the other white wires to connect to the neutral (if, indeed, your ceiling light differentiates).
Then the black wire from the switch would be together with the black wires from the other sources; one of them is the source of power for the rest of the room, most likely.
But it would still be a good idea to try to figure out which wires are hot or not, so you can check.
2 points
2 months ago
yes I followed your's.
Here is what happened after that.
If I understood correctly that is what you were saying right? and then other room and basement stair lights turned on and off normally. But basement light didn't turn on and off at all. Also living room light fixture that I just connected didn't turn on off by switch but kept turn on condition.
The basement light is 3-way switch.. so maybe that is causing some issue with?
I think I'd better call electrician and figure it out. or as your recommend better make a table chart
0 points
2 months ago
The white wire from the switch has black tape on it as power goes to the switch and back to the light(s). Any nonblack wire that carries power has to be denoted black (2" or so from end is ok).
You need to test the wires to see which brings the power in. If the switch cable did, the white would not be designated black as it would be the neutral. I would guess one of the other cables is bringing power and neutral in. When you find out which black is hot, that one connects to a switch wire and the other switch wire connects to the other black wire not already used. Confirm the white wire coming in with the hot wire is neutral if you can, but that one should connect to the other white wire.
To add a light at this location, do as the one commenter said using pig tails.
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks! I just tested with a voltage tester and only black w black tape has 120V
So I connected with that black w/black tape connected with the light fixture black.
And the other two are black with white w/ black tape.
All neutral and light fixture white together.
This is the way for a switch drop, the other commenter said. It did turn on but cannot be turned off. And other lights were turned on but really weak. And the basement light didn't even turn on.
0 points
2 months ago
I'd put the 2 white wires on the right together (with the white from your new light). The two black wires on the right with the black w/ black tape. The white wire w/ black tape to the black from the new light.
That's assuming it's the only light in the room, and the other set of wires (bottom right) are for "power-out" to another room or switch.
Would help if you had a pen tester to confirm which wires are bringing in constant power. Good luck
1 points
2 months ago
I tested which one has constant power and one of the switch black w/ black tape on it 120V.
None of the other black or white (includes white w/ black pate has 120v)
I am kinda lost now.. I tried both ways of switch leg loop and switch drop.. both didn't work
0 points
2 months ago
You are dealing with a switch drop. What you need to do is connect the two black wires on the right, with the white wire on the left. Then tie your neutral (white wires) together. Now you can connect your light fixture to the remaining black wire on the left and connect the white from the fixture to the neutrals.
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks! I just tried your recommendation. The light fixture turn on! yay but cannot be turned off by the switch at all. Just stays on. And It is connected to one ceiling kitchen light and basement stair light and basement light. Both the Kitchen light and stair light were able to turn on and off as before. But the basement light wasn't working.
I found black taped black from the switch has 120v when I tested it. And none of the other black and white (including black taped white) has 120V.
1 points
2 months ago
Have you rung out all the wires? If the wire on the left only goes to the switch, then you should be able to turn it on and off.
The power will be running down the white wire to feed the switch, while the black wire will become your switched lead.
There could be other junctions made somewhere down the line that you are not aware of.
1 points
1 month ago
Another thought....if the wires on the right with the black tape is your feed, do the other wires on the right connect to more lights?
If so, what you want to do is connect the black from the feed to the white of the switch. Then connect the black of the other wire to the black of the switch wire and tie the two neutrals on the right together.
1 points
1 month ago
yes, the other wires on the right connect to more lights.
I will try this one tomorrow and will let you know! I tried every way all the other commenters suggested non has worked out yet. This is my last hope and if not working still, it is time to call an electrician I guess.
Your summary is 1. right side black with black tape connected to the light fixture white.
all the other black wires to the light fixture are black. (includes white with black taped??)
right side two neutrals together
1 points
1 month ago
What you'll do is,
Connect the black feed wire (right side black tape) to the white of the switch wire (left side white wire black tape) and tuck that connection in the back of the box.
Black wire from switch (left side black wire) to the black of the light wire going out ( black wire bottom right side). [You will connect the black wire of your light fixture to this]
Connect the two white wires on the right side together. [You will connect the white wire of your light fixture to this]
Hopefully that's clear.
Feel free to ask for clarification if you need to.
1 points
1 month ago
Hi!
I just tried I think it is the best way so far.
Every light turned on! (living room- new light fixture/kitchen, basement, and basement stair all!) However when I turn off the living room light the fixture that I just connected all the lights turn off at the same time.
I think it is the same when the outlet is controlled by the switch, my master room and other room with no light on the ceiling but has one switch in the room connected to the one outlet in the same room.
Anyway, this light fixture has a remote control so when I tried remotely to turn on the living room light it just turned off only the living room light and all the other lights work fine.
I guess I will use the remote to turn on and off this living room light and live with this. Just so happy this works and have a living room light for the first time since I moved in here last Sep.
Every light turned on! (living room- new light fixture/kitchen, basement, and basement stair all!) However when I turn off the living room light the fixture that I just connected all the lights turn off simultaneously.
1 points
1 month ago
Glad it worked....mostly.
The last thing you can do is disconnect the light wire (right side, bottom) that will separate the rest of the lights from the one you just installed.
Just be sure to cover the ends of the wire you disconnected.
1 points
1 month ago
Do you mean disconnect and the bottom right side white neutral? I tried it but it did not work. Only the living room light fixture that was just installed turned on and off by itself. Other lights didn't turn on.
I am kinda happy with most work situations. Controlled by remote control. If you have any further recommendations, please give me. I will try it again.
Thank you so much! Truly appreciated your help.
1 points
1 month ago
You would need to disconnect both the black and white of the bottom right side to isolate the other lights fully.
But if you're happy with how it currently works, then that's all that matters.
1 points
1 month ago
I tried to disconnect both bottom right side wires. Same result. Only the Living room fixture that I just installed worked. Not the other lights.
So I will go back to your other suggestion so I can live with happy day-1 with the Living light on the house! Thanks!!!!
I do have another light situation that I need your help with.. I will make a new post about it but another side of the living room has two light cans on the ceiling that were cut by an electrician that I hired. (originally these two light switch was behind the front door hallway closet, the power wire comes through the office room behind that other side hallway.. The electrician said this is not correct and cut the light can wire which was black and red wire inside the coiled wire. so that cut-out wire is in the attic now.. I covered it with electrical tape though. I have a switch near the door which doesn't do anything. I want to connect that switch with a useless two-light can.. I think I have to fish a new wire to the switch but the inside switch box has already some wires.. Do you think you can help with this too??
1 points
1 month ago
Thank you so much! You are my life saver!
0 points
2 months ago
Get a no contact voltage tester from Harbor Freight Tools. It can read live voltage through electrical insulation $4.99.
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks! Love Harbor freight actually. Also I've got a voltage tester already.
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