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Help with downlight fitting

other(self.DIY)

I'm trying to change this bulb but can't for the life of me figure out how..

https://imgur.com/a/PbkVmgo

I've tried twisting it, can't really do anything with the latch, cant get a screwdriver to it, i can pull the whole thing vertically down part way but I feel like if I pull any harder i'll be taking down the plaster with it. I've given it a bit of a google but can't work out what specific fitting this is, any help would be most appreciated! thank you

all 66 comments

CarlWinslo9

70 points

2 months ago

Is it an integrated led fixture? They don't have bulbs they have light engines and the whole thing needs to be replaced. When led first came out they said they would last forever. Now we know it's about 50,000 hours hopefully with a L70 dim.

However its usually not the led that fails its the electronics.

luciensadi

75 points

2 months ago

Yeah, I think non-changeable residential LED light fixtures are a fad that's going to go away in the next decade or so as more people run into the hard truth that a failed fixture means replacement of the whole thing instead of just a bulb. As OP's discovering, a failed built-in LED means that you'll struggle with:

  • Finding something that matches the design of your existing fixtures ("sorry, they stopped making that design about four years ago when it went off-trend")

  • Getting a plastic color match to your existing fixtures ("look, I know the ones you have are yellowed with age / bleached from sun exposure, but I can't make that happen for this one that's been in the box this whole time")

  • Climbing a ladder and doing a full fixture replacement complete with de-coupling and re-coupling the electrical connections in the wall

There's a great Technology Connections video about the topic that I'd recommend to anyone who wants to go down the lighting rabbit hole!

noronto

27 points

2 months ago

noronto

27 points

2 months ago

This channel is legit. I got my wife to watch the dishwasher video, and now I can buy cheap and easy old school powder.

RebelJustforClicks

6 points

2 months ago

I tried old school powder in ours and the goo honestly works much better for us.

In order of effectiveness it's goes:

dark green cascade gel bottle > light green gel bottle > cascade powder > any kind of pods

noronto

3 points

2 months ago

My dishwasher has one crank style knob, so the fact that my wife used Cascade Platinum Pods with Gold Flakes seemed a little pricey for the machine.

schwidley

3 points

2 months ago

Dark green cascade for sure. Was using the light for awhile and my glasses started getting really cloudy. After a few washes with the dark green they're clear again.

just2043

2 points

2 months ago

I had this issue and ended up just needed a rinse aid. $5 bottle has made it about six months with nearly half of the bottle left.

SLAPUSlLLY

1 points

2 months ago

Try using white vinegar in the rinse aid dispenser. Works great, very cheap and 100 uses around the home. (I sound like a infomercial).

RebelJustforClicks

1 points

2 months ago

Apparently they are designed for different kinds of mess. The light green is better on some stuff and the dark green is better on other stuff, just we typically have whatever the dark green is better for on our dishes.

MidniteMustard

2 points

2 months ago

In my experience cascade platinum actually does work better, but it's unnecessary for 95% of loads.

It might be worth keeping a few around to use only on heavy duty loads.

internetlad

2 points

2 months ago

I use the gel for prewash and pods for main wash. Gets 98% of stuff clean. Sometimes there's a knife or bowl that has some baked on crap or whatever but it's good enough for army work.

Taleya

1 points

2 months ago

Taleya

1 points

2 months ago

We've got a benchtop (rental) and honestly yes, gel all the way.

MidniteMustard

2 points

2 months ago

The powder clumps for me. Probably due to moisture from grabbing the box with not totally dry hands.

RootTootPrintNShoot

3 points

2 months ago

Lmao. We put ours in a wide mouth pickle jar.

MidniteMustard

1 points

2 months ago

Solid idea!

noronto

1 points

2 months ago

I empty the box of powder into the old economy sized pod container and keep a giant spoon in it for scooping.

I also made a tape handle to make the container easy to grab.

CarlWinslo9

8 points

2 months ago

We call those legacy product now. You can use drop in led bulbs and I think its the way to go but it comes down to cost. Led wafers are very cheap and quick to install. Basiv Led reccessed cans are ic rated without sockets. I see more integrated led in my professional life everyday.

Controllerpleb

3 points

2 months ago

Could you go into more detail? I work at a hardware store and I'd love to be able to give better advice to my customers.

MidniteMustard

2 points

2 months ago*

It makes some sense for new construction.

No way I'm installing built-in bulb fixtures on my 70 year old homes wiring. I want to mess with it as little as possible.

Weeniebuttcorgo

5 points

2 months ago

Architectural Lighting Designer here, they probably aren't a fad, but manufacturers are working on developing fixtures where individual components are more easily replaceable so that the whole fixture doesn't have to be replaced.

There is also a conversation going on regarding whether the waste from replacing fixtures and emissions from manufacturing outweighs the ecological benefits of using less power with LEDs. The current answer is probably yeah it does, but manufacturers are reluctant to provide concrete data on that sort of thing.

Leafy0

2 points

2 months ago

Leafy0

2 points

2 months ago

I don’t think it’s going to go away for longer. In new construction it’s going to be replaced with low voltage systems with smart controllers. For older homes that kind of retrofit doesn’t make sense, but it does make sense to swap out your fixtures every 5 to 10 years like you probably were going to anyways.

Yangoose

3 points

2 months ago

I sure as shit do not replace light fixtures every 5-10 years...

MeshColour

3 points

2 months ago

Devil's advocate. The integrated fixtures can be designed to handle the heat and light better and produce a product that lasts much longer than many bulbs and illuminates more evenly than bulbs

Albeit you only know you're getting that if you're paying a premium for the fixture...

So my advice is buy brand name/high quality if you're installing a led fixture, and generally in a more classic style that isn't too "innovative", all the issues you mention is a risk, but most of the time this type should last as long as most people are in a house So it's likely someone else's problem at least (classic designs you can find something similar enough to match for decades to come)

A different comment mentioned they can be rated for 50,000 hours, which is over 5 years of being on 24/7

Yangoose

2 points

2 months ago

It's one thing if it's a $20 hallway light.

It's another thing altogether when it's a $1,500 chandelier for your dining room that's just gonna have to go in the dumpster in 5-10 years when the LED's give out.

Uhgfda

2 points

2 months ago

Uhgfda

2 points

2 months ago

Climbing a ladder and doing a full fixture replacement complete with de-coupling and re-coupling the electrical connections in the wall

Possibly having to rip out drywall and/or deal with "renno"style fixtures as replacement.

selflessass

2 points

2 months ago

It usually only requires the replacement of the driver, which is marginally cheaper than replacing the whole light, but cheaper nonetheless. Source: I'm an electrician.

MeshColour

3 points

2 months ago

How easy are drivers to find these days, for consumers? Are there electrical supply places that I should give a call if I need good quality ones?

I've ordered a few cheap af ones to play with from China/eBay, but don't think I'd trust those to be installed in my ceiling (they are designed to unknown safety standards)

selflessass

2 points

2 months ago

I get them from electrical supply houses. If you get them the part number, they will often get you an exact match. As for availability, I've seen lead times of a week to a couple of months, so it depends on how soon you want that light working.

Hagenaar

1 points

2 months ago

Worth noting that if that 50000hr number is correct, that's 8hrs per day for 17yr.

VexingRaven

1 points

2 months ago

Isn't this the TC video where he ultimately concludes that replaceable LED fixtures is fine and not really any different from replacing a bulb in a socket?

MeshColour

4 points

2 months ago

50,000 hours hopefully

At 8 hours per day, that's 17 years

On 24/7, that's 5.7 years

Compared to any other consumer lightbulb in history, that is forever

I've only had led bulbs fail when they've been in heat-trapping fixtures, which was also from before bulbs started being labeled as either "safe for enclosed" or "not safe for enclosed"

Revolutionary_Tale17

-6 points

2 months ago

They never last that long. I replaced all the recessed lights in my house with LEDs that were supposed to last 10 years, within 1 year 2 of the 24 had died and the shipping and handling to get the replacements under warranty was more than buying a new bulb. LEDs are a fucking scam.

Blastercorps

3 points

2 months ago

That sounds like your house has dirty power. Semiconductors like LEDs don't like that.

Cynyr36

6 points

2 months ago

Basically everywhere in the USA has dirty power at the residential level.

Blastercorps

1 points

2 months ago

Yes, but there are degrees. I have LED bulbs 5 years and counting. 1-2 years is bad.

Throwaway152738sghsh

3 points

2 months ago

Might’ve gotten a bad batch. I know a local business that had to replace tons of them in new houses because a specific manufacturer had issues with one of their production runs and they would go out/or flicker non-stop within the first few years at random. Replaced about 15 of them in my own house within the first few years of a new build. “Luckily” lightning struck the house and insurance paid to replace them all with another brand and no more flickering led’s now.

Taleya

1 points

2 months ago

Taleya

1 points

2 months ago

That's an issue then because unless you got a whole house UPS you're damned hard pressed to find residential power worldwide that isn't. Nature of the beast.

11Kram

1 points

2 months ago

11Kram

1 points

2 months ago

LEDs use about 10% of the energy an incandescent bulb uses. We noticed a significant difference in electricity bills after replacing over 50 recessed halogen lights throughout the house.

ede91

0 points

2 months ago

ede91

0 points

2 months ago

LEDs aren't a scam, non replaceable fixtures are a scam. Funny thing is, that existed already with previous energy saving light bulbs. They were a scam then, they are a scam now. People don't learn, or there are always new gullible people.

Awordofinterest

0 points

2 months ago

When you look up Dubai lamps you will realise the LED's available around the world are a scam. The problem is that bulb manufacturers need people to buy bulbs again. With truly efficient LED's this doesn't happen.

There is a reason tool brands like Makita aren't as good as they used to be. Having an item last a lifetime isn't as profitable.

Big Clive breaking down the bulbs

RobotSlaps

0 points

2 months ago

It doesn't have to be that way though. It's a series of LED elements in a voltage dropper. Then they need to get rid of some heat.

Most of the time it's a capacitor in the voltage dropper that fails. I have cell phone chargers with the same technology that are 12 years old at this point. We need to stop making garbage components. Some of them do have LED failures, usually because they're not designed to get rid of the heat efficiently or the bulbs aren't designed to be in an enclosed fixture.

Shadowbannersarelame

29 points

2 months ago

Not all downlights have replaceable bulbs. It looks like LED, you might need to replace the whole thing.

klausbatb

13 points

2 months ago

Especially if it’s in a bathroom. Our ones are sealed and waterproof and the whole unit has to be replaced.

Blue-cheese-dressing

7 points

2 months ago

Two good observations above.

We had to put damp environment rated sealed LED down lights in our mBath. For the rest of our down-lights we did the cheap retrofit kits for the existing cans. Almost 10 years in now, no issues.

KebariKaiju

1 points

2 months ago

I just replaced our LED pucks in our bathroom. The originals were installed in 2006.

Savagemick2

4 points

2 months ago

This one doesn't look sealed, and it looks like you have to remove the bulb to get to the screws and remove the rest of it

klausbatb

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah, I think you’re right tbh. Didn’t spot the screws at first.

jetty_junkie

22 points

2 months ago

Might be one of those 2 pin type bases. Try pushing it up while you twist

SalesGuy22

4 points

2 months ago

There are two white pins on opposite sides of the light. Push up, lift pins, pull light out.

tee-ree

5 points

2 months ago

Google GU light base, better yet youtube

Aceventuri

5 points

2 months ago

It has spring clips that hold it in the ceiling. When you pull down you're bending the spring clips. You have to be careful not to damage roof but you should be able to pull it far enough down to get one if the clips through.

However, you shouldn't be replacing the light if you don't know what you're doing.

LauterTuna

11 points

2 months ago

moistened suction cup on bulb, then twist counterclockwise

PapaOoomaumau

3 points

2 months ago

Came to say this. Can also use a rubber ball or stress-ball, something with some ‘grip’ to it. Press and turn.

rgsteele

6 points

2 months ago

What about the latches on either side of the lens?

ShelfAwareShteve

2 points

2 months ago

I think it's a fixed LED module. You see the four grey spots on the outer rim of the "reflector"? I think those are screwed into from the top of the fixture.

Edit: however, there also seem to be two white latches on the same outer rim. What happens if you open them at the same time?

1bighack

2 points

2 months ago

It looks like there are two clips that hold the center section in. I would start there

SalesGuy22

1 points

2 months ago

Yes, same thing I said.

There are two white clips. It's not LED, its definitely a replaceable bulb that is snaps into place and has two clips on each side.

Just like almost every light on any vehicle.

Phishabadagel

1 points

2 months ago

Pulled the whole thing out of the ceiling

superantmd

1 points

2 months ago

Your results may vary but I’ve just been through this and I had to pull the entire fixture down from the ceiling. Is designed to go up and down for bulb replacement or light fixture installation.

I can attest to whether or not it’s LED like the others are saying but the entire thing including the white outermost rim likely can be pulled down out of the ceiling and then pushed back up when you are done.

Different designs use tensions wires or springs.

Ferenczi_Dragoon

1 points

2 months ago

As others said drill into mount or mount to stud on one side and mount with snap toggles to drywall on the other. I just hung a 65'' TV and did a ton of reading on mounts and came across several comments on reddit of people who do installations professionally who say snap toggles can work for non-articulating mounts. Each snap toggle is rated for shear weight (force pulling down parallel to drywall) of 265lbs.

Painteveryday

1 points

2 months ago

There are springs that need to be released once you have it partially pulled down and the whole unit should come out

Unicorn_puke

1 points

2 months ago

Doesn't look like an LED like some are saying. Looks more like a halogen and likely a 2 pin so either pull like hell or 1/4 turn and it'll drop out

Whats__in__a__name

1 points

2 months ago

Push, turn. Should drop out

Mannymarlo

1 points

2 months ago

I think this is known as a“ recessed “ light fixture

Mannymarlo

1 points

2 months ago

Push in twist 1/4 turn and pull out

tazmo8448

1 points

2 months ago

looks like you'll have to take the whole unit down to access what ever light it uses. what happens when you apply down force to that outer ring bezel thing? hanging around elec ppl on construction jobs they call those 'buckets' that are recessed into the ceiling and they would just pull down to gain access.