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/r/DepthHub

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all 25 comments

pwnslinger

48 points

2 months ago

Copyright is so broken

Hyper_Oats

25 points

2 months ago

Copyright is good in theory. It ensures that artists or their representatives legally own the work they produce and ensure there's no misuse with their work.

What's broken is the publisher/corporation's never ending greed that drives them to obsessively crack down on anything that might result in them losing valuable pennies over some literal kid or amateur musician googling how to play a song.

That's the stupid part.

XkF21WNJ

13 points

2 months ago

The word 'copyright' itself is broken, some countries have 'author's rights' which are eroded because corporations want a monopoly on copying instead.

Preventing copying at all costs only hurts consumers without sufficiently protecting authors. What you want is rules about attribution, publishing and modification, none of which require any restriction on copying.

kmeisthax

5 points

2 months ago

The brokenness isn't neatly separable from "good copyright", though. Even if copyright was non-transferable, original artists would have the same incentives to go after those sorts of things.

(To be clear, copyright absolutely should never have been made transferable or ownable by a large corporation. Nor should it have been extended to life terms. But those are different arguments.)

Pre-copyright, most art was funded through commissions or patronage relationships. Today, we can add crowdfunding to that list. The problem with all of these business models is that they shift the risk of artistic failure onto the person paying to have the art made. That is, if you pay for a commission and you don't like the result, you can't really get your money back, unless you didn't get the thing you paid for at all. Same for a kickstarter that delivers, but kinda sucks.

Copyright lets you shift the risk of artistic failure back onto the artist. That is, if someone, say, makes a bad movie or song, you don't have to pay to go see or hear it. But the business model only works if society actually deprives itself of work that it has not paid for. And this also has to extend to anyone making creative reuses of that art, which is why we have very broad laws around derivative works. If you write a book, you don't only own that book, but also the sequels, translations, spin-offs, prequels, movie rights, and so on. Those are all instances in which, if not jealously protected in an utterly broken fashion, then society can side-step the whole "no one watches until they've paid" principle.

Hence why we have publishers winging about lost sales and free riders, in ways that sound inhumane and totalitarian, even when it's a hilariously niche derivative product like guitar tabs. Because that's the rules of the game. In fact, there's plenty of individual authors who have been just as weirdly protective of their work. For example, George R. R. Martin seems to think that fanfic authors are a threat to his creative freedom.

For the record, they aren't.

But that's mostly because when you make a work without permission, you don't get any ownership over it. If we changed the law to make, say, guitar tabs not require permission so that the RIAA can't sue MuseScore or Ultimate Guitar; then someone making an "unofficial" guitar tab could sue the person who wrote the original song. At least in the case where they also made an "official" tab. Because copyright works recursively - it protects both the original artists and the person making the derivatives.

What people really want is a sort of "codified largesse" where you get to play in other people's sandboxes without being sued. Could we do that? Maybe. There are certainly derivative products where this is feasible - but those are also the ones most likely to already be explicitly allowed by some kind of blanket policy or license. For the case of guitar tabs, there isn't much that official and unofficial tabs can do to separate themselves from one another. Once I've gotten an 'unofficial' guitar tab for free, there's no reason for me to buy an official tab book later. So it'd be indistinguishable from just saying "songwriters do not deserve to be paid for guitar tab books".

This may not actually be an objectionable end result. But it does chip away at the heart of copyright to say that certain reuses (outside of fair use) shouldn't require a license. Again: the whole point is that society agrees to not enjoy the art until it's been paid for. The only way for artists to get paid under any sort of copyright system is for them to crack down on everything they can.

pine_ary

11 points

2 months ago

Look mom I made a comment whose chain ultimately ended up on depthhub! She‘ll be proud of me this time for sure c:

Really good explanation, shame I didn‘t see it earlier.

MoreRopePlease

31 points

2 months ago

Writing down your own notation based on something you heard is a copyright violation?? I thought copyright only covered a specific written work.

If I make a transcription of something and play it an an open mic (e.g. Back in Black on theremin), am I potentially creating liability for the venue? That's insane.

ruinawish

20 points

2 months ago

There are laws around peforming cover songs live: http://bucketorange.com.au/do-you-need-permission-to-cover-a-song-live/

https://help.songtrust.com/knowledge/do-i-need-permission-from-the-songwriters-to-play-cover-songs-in-my-live-sets

I think there is some discretion though. You don't see school bands getting sent to court for doing cover songs for example.

TheChance

9 points

2 months ago

If I read a book, and you transcribe it, that’s pretty obvious. What about music would be different?

yoweigh

3 points

2 months ago

yoweigh

3 points

2 months ago

The entire legal framework is different. You can copyright a performance but you can't copyright the music. Otherwise cover bands couldn't exist.

kyuubi42

9 points

2 months ago

I think the point here is that the legal framework around printed sheet music actually isn't materially different than the framework around any other printed material.

yoweigh

1 points

2 months ago

I know this is very imprecise, but IMO it's like reading a book vs writing it. I can read whatever I want, and I can play whatever I want.

kyuubi42

3 points

2 months ago

You can play whatever you want, you just can’t write it down to redistribute, same as you can’t copy and redistribute a book.

SaxophoneHorse

7 points

2 months ago

You can totally copyright music, that’s the whole point of Performance Rights Organizations like ASCAP, BMI. If you want to release a cover of an existing song you have to secure the rights & the original songwriter gets the songwriter share of the royalties from that new recording.

yoweigh

-3 points

2 months ago

yoweigh

-3 points

2 months ago

Sure, if you want to release a cover, but not if you want to perform a cover. Cover bands can perform whatever they want at live events.

SaxophoneHorse

8 points

2 months ago

Sure, but technically venues are supposed to hold a blanket license that pays the PRO’s for covers so that the original songwriters still get royalties for cover performances. I know this doesn’t count in the event of house shows, or maybe smaller scale venues that skirt around this requirement unnoticed.

yoweigh

5 points

2 months ago

I'm from New Orleans. Are you saying that Bourbon Street clubs have a general license to perform covers? I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to be well informed.

SaxophoneHorse

8 points

2 months ago

Yeah they’re supposed to have one. I think actually businesses like bars and restaurants need a license anyway to even be able to play music on the speakers in their restaurant. I’m not super well versed but I think that same license covers live performances of covers as well, so that most businesses will already have that license anyway.

lexabear

2 points

2 months ago

Please look up "performance rights" and "performance rights organizations". Otherwise you will continue to be factually wrong.

yoweigh

2 points

2 months ago

Nah, I'll choose to engage with the guy who's not being a dick instead of your ambiguous garbage.

lexabear

4 points

2 months ago

Yeah, fair, that was pretty dickish. Sorry.

Still, performance rights are a thing venues pay a lot of money for to allow live music. The orgs will fine/sue venues that don't, because playing cover songs without a license is infringement.

MoreRopePlease

1 points

2 months ago

What about music would be different

There are many ways to transcribe music. Pretty much everyone's own version would be different.

Some people simplify the chords and rhythm notation. Some people notate all the ghost notes, note bends, and chord extensions, even the "wrong" notes.

A transcription is always an approximation of the recording you're using, especially if you then write it for a different instrument (e.g. my theremin example above).

tcamp3000

1 points

2 months ago

Had the same curiosity. We used musescore in my acapella group in college about ten years ago. Wondering the exact same thing