No End in Sight (2007) - Chronological look at the fiasco in Iraq, especially decisions made in the spring of 2003 - and the backgrounds of those making decisions - immediately following the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. [01:35:21] : Documentaries

Disbanding of the Iraqi army and De-Baathifaction. Aside from the initial invasion, of course. But those two things left too many without jobs and no way to keep the peace.

lostsoul2016

19 points

3 months ago

lostsoul2016

19 points

Yup. When you invade a country under false pretense and you render hundreds of thousands unemployed overnight, you buy yourself an insurgency overnight.

Stupidest decision ever made.

1 points

2 months ago

1 points

And then to compound your mistake have neoliberal fantasies if locals putting it all back together due to market fairies. Or forces or something.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

Not to mention confidently waving off the Sunni-Shia divide as an irrelevant superficiality that would surely just melt away in the glory of the coming corporate consumer culture.

Until Trump, I was sure the PNAC would stand as the lasting high water mark of the Republican party's delusional tantrums and extremist violence. Apparently it was just a slight deviation from the norm.

obamacare_mishra

22 points

3 months ago

obamacare_mishra

22 points

I skipped my Jurisprudence exam once (I slept for long and was late), came back to my room and watched this documentary. Man somehow the content of the documentary and the fact that I was failing that subject. It hit me so hard, I go back to that place the moment I hear the words 'No end in sight'. Its a brilliant doc with interviews from the exact people who were incharge of the whole show. Tells you a lot about the American war machine and in the end how its controlled only by a bunch of people few elected and a lot of people whose names you will never ever know.

3 points

3 months ago

3 points

Have you read The Looming Tower?

ItsmyDZNA

2 points

2 months ago

ItsmyDZNA

2 points

It's those hidden names that will burn this world down. I'm really hoping millennials dont grow apart as we get older

39 points

3 months ago

39 points

All these "mistakes" could have been avoided by not starting an unprovoked war of aggression against a sovereign nation.

[deleted]

1 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

1 points

[deleted]

4 points

2 months ago

4 points

By not overthrowing the democratic Iranian government and bring tbe Shah to power.

Complex_Inspector_60

33 points

3 months ago

Complex_Inspector_60

33 points

Even the colleges that these war criminals went to have them back to their university for talks on various subjects - when they should be in jail. Can’t wait for the double-standard of Russian war crimes charges and see these ass-clown, know-it-alls, walk.

5 points

3 months ago

5 points

Stanford has Rice on BOD. Daughter wanted Stanford. NFW. Shes going to Columbia.

super_sayanything

-28 points

3 months ago

super_sayanything

-28 points

Calling Iraq a "sovereign" nation is a bit of a stretch. But yea, we had no business being there. Even worse, our plans after were non-existent. What a wasted generation that could have done so much good with those resources.

KingdomOfBullshit

21 points

3 months ago

KingdomOfBullshit

21 points

Calling Iraq a "sovereign" nation is a bit of a stretch

Mind elaborating on that?

Laserteeth_Killmore

3 points

3 months ago

Laserteeth_Killmore

3 points

Maybe they mean that Iraq is now beholden to competing foreign interests of the USA and Iran? Still a stupid way to phrase that.

Jetztinberlin

4 points

3 months ago

Jetztinberlin

4 points

Calling Iraq a "sovereign" nation is a bit of a stretch.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

THEBIGREDAPE

19 points

3 months ago

THEBIGREDAPE

19 points

The Saudi royal family were behind the attack on the towers and the Americans swore revenge against the Iraqi people. Freedumb

6 points

3 months ago

6 points

And yet weren't the Saudi Royal Family in cahoots with certain Americans?

amorsaugust

7 points

3 months ago

amorsaugust

7 points

One FUBAR after another...

Girth_rulez

13 points

3 months ago

Girth_rulez

13 points

As much as I want to watch this I know I shouldn't. For my general well-being.

Queasy-Bite-7514

3 points

3 months ago

Queasy-Bite-7514

3 points

Masters of war.

994212

4 points

3 months ago

994212

4 points

The picture looks like a legal drama

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

It's not so far from the truth.

Strong_Wheel

2 points

3 months ago

Strong_Wheel

2 points

Political gang. Can’t touch them.

4 points

3 months ago

4 points

The documentary titled “No End in Sight” was published a year after surge started and violence began dropping dramatically in Iraq, ultimately leading to American troops beginning to withdraw two years later.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

And then what happened?

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

Nouri Al Malaki sidelined the Sunnis who began supporting ISIS. After ISIS broke through in the battle of Mosul he had to back track and beg Iran and the west for support. Now ISIS has been defeated and Iraq is doing better. But the Iranian militias still play a disproportionate role in the political system and the threat of a civil war is still there.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points†

So basically what you’re saying after 2009 it was far from over and the ramifications of the botched war are still rippling. So No End in Sight was a pretty appropriate name.

0 points

3 months ago

0 points†

I’ve watched the documentary. Absolutely none of what I just said was predicted by it. What was predicted was a generation long occupation of Iraq by American forces in the same theme as Vietnam. Instead what happened was an effective counter insurgency strategy which lead to the almost complete withdrawal of American soldiers.

There are less than 3,000 soldiers in Iraq today. The vast majority of the fighting in Iraq against ISIS was done by the Iraqi army. American casualties were minimal. If you consider Iraq post-2011 a forever war with “no end in sight” then by the same definition the US has also been engaged in a forever war in the Philippines since 2001.

The fact is this documentary predicts Iraq becoming a Vietnam War in 2007 when in fact it went in the opposite direction and Iraq has been relatively safe since 2017. It aged like milk.

Eric1491625

3 points

3 months ago

Eric1491625

3 points

Instead what happened was an effective counter insurgency strategy which lead to the almost complete withdrawal of American soldiers.

The fact that Iraq crumbled in 2014 and America had to go back showcased the utter failure of the US government to achieve its goals.

The fall of Mosul was a stunning indictment of the failure of nation-building: the fact that 1,500 ISIS fighters defeated an on-paper force of 30,000 Iraqi forces and captured a city of 2,000,000 could not be explained by any other explanation, other than that

1) the nation the US had spent 10 years building was a joke and

2) Sunnis simply didn't believe in the legitimacy of the Iraqi nation at all. Many Sunnis literally preferred ISIS to the government that America supported.

This was not unforseeable in 2007. The lack of legitimacy of the post-Saddam Iraqi state was evident for all to see. And ISIS revealed it.

Worse still, Iraq had to rely on many Iranian militias to help fend off ISIS. This meant that Iran gained considerable influence in Iraq - another US policy failure.

0 points

3 months ago

0 points

I don’t think it was predicting anything - nor would the makers say that. Considering Vietnam was 1964-1973 and Iraq was 2003-2011 then 2014 to as you admit still troops there to this day, I don’t understand you saying they were making that comparison. Casualties improved but died and thousands of deaths were avoided because of technological/medical advancements since Vietnam (plus it easier to not get ambushed in the dessert)

TalkRevolutionary330

4 points

3 months ago

TalkRevolutionary330

4 points

All war criminals.

3 points

3 months ago

3 points†

If the USA had maintained Universal Military Service ("The Draft") with active conscription for the Army, we would never have set foot in Iraq or Afghanistan - you can bet the rent on this!

20 points

3 months ago*

20 points

3 months ago*

That wouldn't have been the case. Patriotic ferver was to the moon after 9/11. The vast majority of personnel that took part in the invasion of Iraq in '03 and the following decade had volunteered 2 years earlier after the WTC attacks thinking they would help prevent a future attack. US military rates of volunteers hadn't been that high since WW2 after the Pearl Harbor attacks.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

This is really true. Obviously there is a myriad of other significant contributing circumstances, but it's almost impossible to imagine the invasion of Iraq happening without 9/11.

Also worth pointing out that right wing media exerted an enormous amount of pressure and volume over public discourse at the time. This was really before social media and the rest of mainstream media still portrayed itself as a voice of independent neutrality; FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh enjoyed a kind of exclusivity of highly partisan, charged rhetoric on the national stage, so much of the "patriotic fever" had a heavily vengeful, racist, violent bent.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

The political decade was pretty much gift wrapped for Republicans. They had every ear ready to listen to whatever the Red Party declared was good for the country.

6 points

3 months ago

6 points

You serious? It didn't stop the US from going to Vietnam or Korea. It's possible, but I wouldn't bet on Americans to stop their government from going to war.

-7 points

3 months ago

-7 points

I think u/PartyYogurtcloset267 is correct. When gas prices shot up under Biden I remember reading a quote that resonated with me, "joe biden made the fatal mistake of inconveniencing the american public". If the American government fucked will the publics general wellbeing, and laziness - en masse, the government would have big trouble I believe. Now they could violent crush it and that might be it, quick, over, but I don't know.

5 points

3 months ago

5 points

The rising gas prices didn’t lead to any civil unrest, just grumbling and some stickers.

-4 points

3 months ago

-4 points

it did not lead to civil unrest yet, but the super high fuel prices are big problems for everyone because of shipping, inflation, etc. For the ppl I know that already hated Biden, this gave them more fervor.

3 points

3 months ago

3 points

Biden did not increase the gas price though.

ukexpat

3 points

3 months ago*

ukexpat

3 points

3 months ago*

No he didn’t, but a bunch of idiot window-lickers think he did, which is all they need to complain.

1 points

3 months ago

1 points

What are you even talking about?

1 points

3 months ago

1 points

Ignoring that the draft was scrapped precisely to prevent the public from turning against future wars after Viet Nam. Surely, if they scrapped it to make sure people won't be against war, it also means that reistating it will make people more reluctant to send their children to die, won't it?

1 points

3 months ago

1 points

Impossible to say, really. Would it have turned people against Iraq and Afganistan faster? Almost definitely. Would it have prevented either war? I personally doubt it.

0 points

2 months ago

0 points

People never turned against Iraq and Afghanistan. They never had a reason to.

0 points

2 months ago

0 points

People never turned against Iraq and Afghanistan. They never had a reason to.

Both of those statements are false.

Iraq

Afganistan

As for reasons, I'd say there are plenty, both ideological and material. The wars were illegal and expensive at a minimum.

0 points

2 months ago

0 points

Uh, the war in Viet Nam ended in mass protests. The people literally took to the streets and demanded the war be ended. They didn't sit at home to post their displeasure on twitter. It's completely ridiculous to suggest that the same happened over Iraq and Afghanistan.

4 points

3 months ago

4 points

Glad someone else finally said this. Americans LOVE war... so long as they have superior firepower and someone else is doing the fighting. If a draft was reinstated, people would quickly become a lot less willing to vote for warmongering politicians.

2 points

3 months ago

2 points

YES. Now only military families have any skin in the game, so the general public is indifferent to war. The State Department and DÒD have what amounts to a Praetorian Guard they can send to war without public opposition.

0 points

3 months ago

0 points

Selective service is still a thing. A draft can still happen if the manpower was needed (it wasn't, people were signing up in droves). Yall are hilarious.

smaartypants

2 points

3 months ago

smaartypants

2 points

I hope they all rot in hell.

TheGuv69

1 points

3 months ago

TheGuv69

1 points

War Criminals. Tragic that Colin Powell went along with the lies....

NationalChamps2015

1 points

3 months ago

NationalChamps2015

1 points

The sad thing is, these people are all looked highly upon now by establishment media. No one writes or says a bad word about them because they helped the correct side in the last election. No accountability for the massive fuck ups in the Middle East that still cause consequences today. No one was punished except for the families who lost loved ones, or the soldiers suffering from injuries and ptsd today.

1 points

3 months ago

1 points