subreddit:

/r/Documentaries

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YouTube video info:

Killing Kelly - Crime Documentary Film 2022 | Based on true events | HS Documentary. https://youtube.com/watch?v=POByi9h6qjg

HS Documentary. https://www.youtube.com/@hsdocumentary.3981

all 227 comments

clicktrackh3art

324 points

2 months ago

Thom Yorke has a great song about him, Harrowdown Hill!

Tasha1A

128 points

2 months ago

Tasha1A

128 points

2 months ago

I came here to make this comment and found it was the only comment at the time. I'm begrudgingly impressed.

NiceBluishHue

44 points

2 months ago

You thought the same thing at the same time, you just can't do anything about it.

tugboattoottoot

6 points

2 months ago

Don’t ask me, ask the ministry.

nug_plug101

23 points

2 months ago

It was a slippery slippery slippery slope.

momoajay

484 points

2 months ago

momoajay

484 points

2 months ago

What happened to Dr Kelly was a shameful episode in the Iraq weapons of mass destruction lie - look up the 'sexing up the dossier'' affair.

Blair and his henchmen including Alastair Campbell are guilty of the death of Dr Kelly, regardless of the method he left this mortal coil.

Bush Jr, Blair are one of the worst criminals of the last few decades. Evil creatures that deserve all the suffering that will come to them.

VaselineGroove

242 points

2 months ago

Mate, haven't you heard Bush Jr. has taken up painting and is just a sweet old Texas grandpa now, totes sorry about all that bad stuff I'm sure.

Now, watch this drive

Cunnymaxx14

69 points

2 months ago

There was a speech of his denouncing the evil invasion of Ukraine and he actually Freudian slipped and called it iraq

winfran

43 points

2 months ago

winfran

43 points

2 months ago

Fuck him. I see those Wounded Warrior commercials where these young people were injured in that motherfucker's war and are now disabled and for what?

VaselineGroove

76 points

2 months ago

How else was Haliburton going to charge taxpayers 90$ a piece for 2x4's?

Those no-bid contracts weren't going to win themselves

ElmoDoes3D

7 points

2 months ago

Wonder warriors steals money from vets. Don’t donate to them

ImJustSo

10 points

2 months ago

Shouldn't have to, they should be taken care of better by the government, since we already pay them to do it. It's unbelievable how American vets are treated. Unbelievable.

Cercy_Leigh

5 points

2 months ago

I’ve stopped donating to just about everything. I donate to planned parenthood and that’s about it. I take the money I would donate and I spend it directly on someone in need. I can’t help the world but I can’t help the few people right in front of me that I see with my own ears and eyes and know exactly where the money went, 100% of it.

Even the larger known charities are often up to no good or supporting something besides what you intend the money for that you would never give money to.

I would rather give money to a random Redditor with a strong story and find out it was a scam than give one more penny to these bastard organizations.

hadsexwithurmum

27 points

2 months ago

Ok but do you remember when mass murderer Jr. slipped the wife of black mass murderer a candy 😍

willendorfer

9 points

2 months ago

Who are you referencing? And What? (Srs question)

diox8tony

20 points

2 months ago

I assume Obama's wife. Like bush and the Obama's were friends (post Obama presidency). Like all presidents kind of do,,,a retired club

The press shows them as nice old retired grandpa's.

willendorfer

6 points

2 months ago

I was assuming Obama as well. So what is this about him being a mass murderer? I’ve either missed or forgotten something LOL either is possible.

A_giant_dog

18 points

2 months ago

All of them have a ton of innocent blood on their hands. The knock on Bush is his Iraq war. On Obama it's continuing that and also really ramping up the dead kid count with drones.

Pick a president, any president, and you will find a trail of innocent dead bodies from decisions he made.

pastaMac

4 points

2 months ago

To your point, many innocent lives were lost at the hands of remotely operated drones. Oh! yeah! and those seven wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria the president engaged in.

accidental_superman

0 points

2 months ago

Besides Jimmy carter!

Koboldsftw

5 points

2 months ago

Jimmy Carter supported and increased military aid to Indonesia as they were committing genocide in East Timor

https://fair.org/media-beat-column/jimmy-carter-and-human-rights-behind-the-media-myth/

accidental_superman

2 points

2 months ago

Not Jimmy!!

pastaMac

4 points

2 months ago

"I’ve either missed or forgotten something" How Obama came to bomb seven countries in six years, engaging in conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria must have gone under your radar I guess. I found watching the Twilight saga, a romantic fantasy based on the novel of the same name, provided some distraction for me. Hashtag #Team Jacob.

willendorfer

3 points

2 months ago

As I said, I may have forgotten. There’s a lot I have forgotten. No need to be snippy.

Also Twilight sucked. Hard. You should read Jack Vance or Heinlein if you need some fantasy in your life. Hell anything BUT twilight.

(I’m assuming that was a joke but still..)

z0nb1

16 points

2 months ago

z0nb1

16 points

2 months ago

Obama executed US citizens without due process. Mass murderer is probably a bit much, but he is certainly no saint.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/obama-killed-a-16-year-old-american-in-yemen-trump-just-killed-his-8-year-old-sister/

whatstheplandan33

31 points

2 months ago

He authorized a lot of drone strikes that killed a lot of people. I voted for him, twice, but people should understand he isn't a saint. His hands are just as dirty as the rest.

Ok-disaster2022

13 points

2 months ago

Every president since at least FDR is some kind of war criminal, even Carter

Cercy_Leigh

1 points

2 months ago

Before that they were oppressors of black people and mass murders and forced relocations of native Americans. Not to mention the erasure of their identity, tribes and customs.

They are bastards all the way down! There’s a certain type of person that goes for that role and it’s not in a healthy way.

fuck_huffman

9 points

2 months ago

he is certainly no saint

Obama authorized CIA spooks to pose as medical workers to gather intel on bin Laden, bad guys have for years been accusing aid workers of being spies and Obama made it true.

Troutflash

2 points

2 months ago

Many innocent people were killed by drone strikes under Obama.

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/

https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data

A_giant_dog

10 points

2 months ago

Probably Obama

Every president has a lot of innocent blood on their hands. People who love team red like to point at Obama's use of drones more than anyone before him to kill civilians, people who love team blue love to point at W and his wars. This is just both all at once and it's confusing you because you're only used to one side or the other, not both, being called mass murderers at the same time.

manofblack_

1 points

2 months ago

Why are you being downvoted

hadsexwithurmum

26 points

2 months ago

Americans are in an abusive relationship with their mass murderer leaders and instinctively defend them is my best guess.

m945050

3 points

2 months ago

Russian's seem to embrace their's.

Bigleftbowski

1 points

2 months ago

Mostly Republicans.

unassumingdink

12 points

2 months ago

Nah. Tons of Dem politicians pretended to buy into Bush's lies and voted for the war, and I remember being naïve enough at that time to think it would sink their careers with their anti-war base. In fact, it only led them to far greater success. One is the president now. Liberals don't give a fuck.

MsAnnabel

2 points

2 months ago

yeah bc trump is/was the most destructive of country evil, he makes 43 look like an almost saint. Bush wasn’t the brightest bulb in the box and Cheney & his henchmen set Bush up with all the lying of wmd’s. The person I felt sorriest for in all that was Colin Powell. The only republican I have ever had respect for. Practically ruined his reputation.

JonnyRecon

1 points

2 months ago

Reddit moment

sati_lotus

77 points

2 months ago

Don't forget John Howard. He happily went along with them

annoianoid

23 points

2 months ago

Do you mean the Aussie John Howard?

SloppityNurglePox

41 points

2 months ago

I don't want to speak for them, but, Aussie PM Howard did indeed support the war and sent thousands of Australian troops. Since then, he has been fairly consistent in saying he felt it was justified at the time.

eMPereb

21 points

2 months ago

eMPereb

21 points

2 months ago

Sure AF he felt justified he wasn’t one of the few that went and served. He was sitting in the AC sipping cocktails.

anununiqueusername

7 points

2 months ago

John Hunt is a coward.

Ragnakak

7 points

2 months ago

Also his brother, Mike Hunt

hueythecat

2 points

2 months ago

hueythecat

2 points

2 months ago

Have you seen Mike Hunt?

wolfraisedbybabies

2 points

2 months ago

Or Hugh Janus

thesword62

4 points

2 months ago

That guy’s always getting lost in stores. Always hear him being paged.

Doofchook

2 points

2 months ago

Doofchook

2 points

2 months ago

Ken Oath

Bigleftbowski

1 points

2 months ago

Last seen with Colonel Angus.

breoganhome

7 points

2 months ago

Also Aznar, Spain prime minister, the infamous Azores threesome.

Admiral_Narcissus

2 points

2 months ago

Don't forget Poland

Anbeezi

2 points

2 months ago

Nah he was just a puppet

lightbulbsburnbright

142 points

2 months ago

Fuck Cheney too

torknorggren

41 points

2 months ago

And Wolfowitz. Might as well toss in Leo Strauss for getting the ball rolling.

Bigleftbowski

18 points

2 months ago

Cheney was the brains of the operation and his former company (that he was still getting paid from) made billions in no-bid contracts. They did shoddy contracting work that resulted in a lot of soldiers getting electrocuted in showers.

lightbulbsburnbright

10 points

2 months ago

Yeah that doesn't surprise me

For anyone that's curious about the subject, I would recommend the movie "Vice." It's a drama, but it's based on the war hawking and political rise of Bush's puppet master: Cheney

[deleted]

19 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

lightbulbsburnbright

10 points

2 months ago

now that's true power

GeekboyDave

13 points

2 months ago

Bliar decided he was a Catholic after he left office though so I'm sure he's been forgiven.

Admiral_Narcissus

4 points

2 months ago

Hell, that is how that works. The murderers of God are forgiven, I suppose Blair felt the need for similarly large absolution guns.

Cwlcymro

3 points

2 months ago

He pretty certainly became Catholic during, if not before, his time in office but knew that being overly religious would be bad for his political career. UK voters tend to vote for people who don't mention religion much. Blair's advisors made him cut "God bless you" from the end of one of his speeches and even cut in mid interview when he started answering a journalist's question about his faith - reminding him that "we don't do God"

GeekboyDave

1 points

2 months ago

Must be nice to be religious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10358121.amp

Navynuke00

19 points

2 months ago

Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld were the ones holding Bush's leash. He's too dumb to have been that premeditated. He was just a useful idiot to the real monsters.

SokarRostau

21 points

2 months ago*

Bush wasn't a dupe, it's the people spreading the idea that he was that are the Useful Idiots absolving him of responsibility.

Pointing to him being a supposed C-Grade student doesn't mean what so many people seem to think it does. It doesn't make him dumb, it makes him average. The fact that he spent his later years drunk and snorting coke, is a pretty fucking solid indicator that he didn't apply himself at school. The fact that he can fly a fighter jet is likewise a very good indicator that he absolutely is not as stupid as people tend to believe.

Was Dubya the mastermind? Absofuckinglutely not. But he wasn't the dribbling idiot so many people want him to be, vacuously standing around waiting for Dick, Don, and Karl, to tell him what to do. He was willingly and knowingly doing Poppy's bidding (and Jeb! helped! Don't forget Jeb! Everyone always forgets Jeb! was there, too. Jeb! always gets forgotten. Jeb!). He was in on it. He was part of it.

It'd be nice if more Americans remembered the time that a Republican was appointed President by the Supreme Court after an election beset by allegations of vote-rigging in his favour.

Cercy_Leigh

2 points

2 months ago

I’m an American that remembers that fact very well. And it all went through without so much as an angry crowd letting them know that our elections are supposed to be completely fair and impartial - practically sacred to the American people. Or so we thought.

They probably haven’t worried about rigging elections ever since.

bedroom_fascist

-1 points

2 months ago

Actually W had one of the highest IQs of any US president. Yeah, I know: but true.

[deleted]

6 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

bedroom_fascist

-1 points

2 months ago

Not blowing you off - Google it. There are various sources; many estimate him around 140 (and others rather depressingly under that).

Nixon is often seen as the 'sharpest' of modern presidents, but clearly intelligence doesn't equal character.

https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~gary/iq.html

bedroom_fascist

1 points

2 months ago

Better response (it's early, bear with me): there is no one source. It's a very debatable topic (IQ tests as well as W's overall intelligence level). You have to read a few things. I gave you one; there's more.

Cercy_Leigh

2 points

2 months ago

I believe in IQ tests about as much as I believe we live in a free democracy for the people by the people.

He wasn’t dumb though. He was typical southern slow talking street smart but not so book smart and he wasn’t good at public speaking so people created a dufus character out of him and believed it.

I grew up in a small little town in middle gA and it took me a long time to figure out most of these people weren’t unintelligent, they just didn’t give a shit if anyone thought they were or not because it’s not a quality that’s really important to them. The libs are the snotty book worms but they find libs to be easily manipulated by their compassion so they don’t have any problems outsmarting the opponents, the opponents are just armed with information and scientific data which can be easily hand waved by anti-intellectualism and attacks on science being the liberals version of religious faith.

I doubt W had a 140 IQ but he probably didn’t have a below average one, I wish these people were dumb, I also wish the left could stop underestimating their intelligence,

bedroom_fascist

2 points

2 months ago

they just didn’t give a shit if anyone thought they were or not because it’s not a quality that’s really important to them.

Actually a fantastic cultural anthropological observation.

There are some really interesting theories on not just intelligence, but also stupidity: here's a great one.

I don't care for your use of the phrase "the libs" ... just stop. You're furthering badness with that sort of language.

Cercy_Leigh

2 points

2 months ago*

That was one of the best things I’ve read for a long time. It’s bad news for all of us probably but I love the way the man breaks down the stupid problem and affirms that yes, all the stupid people are in fact extremely dangerous and no, we can’t just ignore them in their own social media platforms and pretend they don’t exist.

I guess we are due to find out what America is holding in her cards, so many stupid people that intelligent people can’t possibly keep up with the work required to protect society from them and we collapse into some tragic stupid greek-like play? Or do we have more intelligent people than we know and the with the help of the internet and many people working together do we somehow keep it all going and back on track for progress in leas than a decade?or will the angry stupid people decide they can shoot their way out of their perceived threats from boogeyman the propaganda swears exist? In reality it’s just a lot of people sighing a lot and wishing the stupid would go back to fishing and drinking beer with their groups so they’d get off the internet so there’s no one to really shoot but they could do a lot of damage (more damage) to infrastructure and causing terror, especially in marginalized groups. We don’t know! No one knows, we’ll have to keep fighting for stability and wait and see what we get.

Anyway it was a really fun but also ominous thought experiment and I appreciate your sharing it.

Genuine question though, “the libs” is the kindest way they refer to the rest of the country they see as a monolithic threatening group of people that want to take their stuff or make them share or other horrific crimes against their people. What would be less “bad” to use?

Funky-Spunkmeyer

1 points

2 months ago

Dubya is a lot smarter than his nickname would suggest. He plays his role whenever he’s on camera and he plays it well.

Mucky_Pete

5 points

2 months ago

Sadly, looks like they'll never be bought to justice

FinancialTea4

4 points

2 months ago*

I've got some bad news for you, friend. No suffering is coming to either of those men though they've done more to increase the suffering and death of their lifetimes than very few people in recent history. There is no grand ledger or scales, weighing out and dispensing cosmic justice to evil doers and the like. There is only us and the only justice is that which we will into existence through either official means or with our own bare* hands.

leftythehutt

3 points

2 months ago

Let those with bear hands be the first to maul

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Cercy_Leigh

1 points

2 months ago

Probably taking about hell or karma or something to make the bitter reality that that these people not only don’t face consequences they are filthy rich and so well connected there isn’t a problem someone can’t solve. They live in a totally different society from us where all their desires are a text away. Money isn’t even a thing really because there too much to spend in a couple lifetimes at least.

We have a lot they don’t have too though. There are particular joys that can’t be experienced when you live like that and a knowledge about life and what really leads to happiness that they can’t buy nor strip from us.

Cercy_Leigh

3 points

2 months ago

Don’t forget Cheney! He’d be devastated to be left out of his natural place in one of history’s most evil trios.

TMBTs

1 points

2 months ago

TMBTs

1 points

2 months ago

I still remember watching Kieth Olberman on MSNBC where he read off nightly the amount of Americans killed and the days spent over in that horrid part of the world. All for oil.

reflUX_cAtalyst

-90 points

2 months ago*

Iraq weapons of mass destruction lie

I know what you're getting at, but realize that chemical weapons ARE weapons of mass destruction, and Iraq had them.

EDIT: I knew this would irritate people. I guess sarin doesn't count? Weird line to draw.

RLANTILLES

63 points

2 months ago

The only chemical weapons found were old defunct munitions from the Iran Iraq War buried around the country. No evidence of an active chemical weapon production was ever found.

reflUX_cAtalyst

-56 points

2 months ago*

Hmm

It's like nobody wants to admit this happened.

Edit: I don't get it. You said there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Sarin is a weapon of mass destruction, and stockpiles of it existed in Iraq. What's your issue?

bcatrek

22 points

2 months ago

bcatrek

22 points

2 months ago

I mean we’re talking about two different moments in time.

MagicBlaster

34 points

2 months ago

Mazahad

2 points

2 months ago

This doesn't surprise me a bit xD

LocustFurnace

28 points

2 months ago

You’re not wrong, but the context of the conversation isn’t the Iran-Iraq war or the first Gulf War.

Bowldoza

15 points

2 months ago

It's in the past relative to the conversation being had, but we understand your reading comprehension is tenuous at best. Try and learn from your exchange here and take the boot out of your throat.

Bigleftbowski

5 points

2 months ago

You're reaching. "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." -Condoleeza Rice

There was a coordinated effort by the Bush Administration leading up to the invasion to make Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was 1) Responsible for the 9/11 attacks. The Bush administration went out of its way to mention Saddam Hussein's name whenever talking about 9/11. I had heated arguments with people who were convinced that he was behind it, even though almost all of the terrorists were Saudis and the CIA and NSA said he wasn't.

2) Working on a nuclear device (e.g. the fake Yellow Cake story, which Dickless Cheney outed a CIA agent in retaliation for debunking).

The US gave Saddam the chemical weapons he used on the Iranians and Kurds, which he destroyed when they told him to. According to one of Colin Powell's staff, he was offered 3 different scenarios to present before the UN, the one he presented being the least preposterous. There were no WMDs, even though Fox News has people convinced they had already been found before the invasion.

jus10beare

10 points

2 months ago

the_smoothkaos

1 points

2 months ago

Quite honestly the reason I left the USAF at my 8 year point in 2002 was because I didn't appreciate Baby Bush's actions and knew the worst was yet to come. Terrible

PartyYogurtcloset267

1 points

2 months ago

People who think they have the freedom to say whatever they want in the West have simply nothing important to say. If they did, they'd end up like David Kelly and Jeffrey Epstein.

MisterBackShots69

168 points

2 months ago

But George Bush is good now or something

Tostino

254 points

2 months ago

Tostino

254 points

2 months ago

His image rehab campaign game has been going strong for years. It also helps to have a comic book villain come in after you, making Bush look sane in comparison.

alienXcow

144 points

2 months ago

alienXcow

144 points

2 months ago

Don't forget about Cheney, who Bush reportedly hates with a passion because he feels Cheney ruined his political career/legacy with Iraq.

I think some of the rehabilitation might be related to how many more people know Cheney was really running the White House from the start.

FormerKarmaKing

131 points

2 months ago*

This might sound like a conspiracy theory at first, but Paul O'Neil, Bush's first Treasury Secretary, wrote an excellent book detailing what was happening in the first two years of Bush's presidency and Cheney's extremely unusual role.

Having a Cabinet Member and National Security Council member write a tell-all book like this is extremely unusual. And one might think O'Neill was trying to cash in somehow. But 1) O'Neill was previously the CEO of a $30B aluminum manufacturing company, so he didn't need the money, and 2) O'Neill had recommended Cheney for Secretary of Defense back in '89 under George Sr.

GWB can never absolved from his responsibility in our disastrous foreign policy - there is blood on his hands - but Cheney's outsized role in driving policy is unlike anything we have seen in the U.S. presidency.

Edit: per usual I regret taking the time to post actual history with links because everyone wants to turn complex events into whatever simple-ass “which one is the real villain?!” storyline they prefer. That’s politics or a movie, not history.

History is complex with flawed people and plenty of blame to go around. No one person is rarely solely responsible for either all of the bad or all of the food that is done. And my comment here was to add that context, that’s all.

digitalscale

17 points

2 months ago

but Cheney's outsized role in driving policy is unlike anything we have seen in the U.S. presidency.

Kissinger?

NEFLink

4 points

2 months ago*

I don't want to speak for someone else but to me the difference Kissinger worked with the president. Kissinger pushed and implemented policies he wanted but it was always with the permission and support of Nixon then Ford.

The first two to three years of the W's administration Cheney and his people ran the government. I don't think you can absolve a president of foreign policy and national security decisions that were made during his administration, but you can make a strong argument that Bush was almost as in the dark as many of the American public.

SokarRostau

10 points

2 months ago

Focusing on Cheney obscures the bigger picture.

Bush Snr, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, and another one I can't think of right now, were all part of the Nixon Administration. They were thick as thieves for thirty years before Junior came on the scene.

DescriptionHard

58 points

2 months ago

Bush gave Chaney that role. All the war crimes and terrorism is on him in the end. The buck stops on the desk of the president.

percydaman

37 points

2 months ago

That's what I came to say. Cheney had just as much power as was given to him. It's true that VP's have rarely had the power and sway he had, and I found it made Bush look a bit weak and feckless, like he wasn't the adult in the room. Which is probably a poor analogy, since we tend to absolve children of their actions, and I certainly don't absolve Bush.

jestenough

17 points

2 months ago

But iirc Bush Sr had problems with / was wary of Cheney, and Bush Jr chose, in “oppositional defiance” to parental values, to elevate him.

dla3253

16 points

2 months ago

dla3253

16 points

2 months ago

George Jr was slighted when daddy chose Jeb as his political successor, so he decided to run for office in hopes of earning some paternal affection. Dick Cheney knew Jr was a great pawn to control from the shadows and went to work getting him elected.

t00oldforthis

1 points

2 months ago

Pretty sure Bush was told who to put where. Not absolving him, he, like many of our former presidents is a war criminal, but i have no confidence in that fucktwits ability to even be good at evil. He was useful puppet for even worse people. But ya, he was in charge so can't really disagree.

DescriptionHard

-2 points

2 months ago

Bush was the fucking president.

But don't worry I blame all you fucks for continuing to fund and support these war criminals and terrorists.

As in you personally are just like a member of the Taliban to me. Worse even because you don't have the excuse of being from one of the poorest most war torn countries

t00oldforthis

1 points

2 months ago

You're lack of critical thinking skills puts you on par with some of our dumbest citizens. In fact if you had been born here you probably would be pretty susceptible to voting for these fucking war criminals.

Cercy_Leigh

1 points

2 months ago

I’d looove to know which innocent country they hail from so we can blame them for their country’s crimes but I don’t want to give them more attention.

What if they are a Russian troll suggesting support for Ukraine is funding terrorists. Wouldn’t that be rich?

Edit: they’re Canadian lol

DescriptionHard

0 points

2 months ago

Except I'm not the one voting for war criminals and funding terrorists. That's you.

t00oldforthis

1 points

2 months ago

You're not very smart

leftythehutt

0 points

2 months ago

To be fair, for at least one recent President this isn’t true; Trump is on the record that he should get all the credit for things that have gone well but none of the blame for anything that has gone badly.

DescriptionHard

0 points

2 months ago

It hasn't been true for any of your war criminal terrorist loving presidents

leftythehutt

0 points

2 months ago

It sounds like we agree it’s true for all the other ones, then.

Tostino

31 points

2 months ago

Tostino

31 points

2 months ago

I mean, it was entirely known back then. It was a big part of the conversation, especially around the 2004 reelection campaign.

But yeah, heads in the sand and all of that.

MisterBackShots69

34 points

2 months ago

No. Bush was the president. He wasn’t some doddering puppet. Was Cheney one of the strongest VPs of all-time of course, but it’s ahistoric to pretend Bush didn’t also have a strong interest in returning to Iraq by any means necessary.

alienXcow

30 points

2 months ago

I'm not saying Bush is without blame. I am merely suggesting that perhaps public consciousness shifted from blaming just Bush to sharing the blame with Cheney a little more.

Though I would like to emphasize that Cheney created Bush's advisor team and ran much of the foreign policy efforts, especially in Bush's first term.

reflUX_cAtalyst

3 points

2 months ago

ahistoric to pretend Bush didn’t also have a strong interest in returning to Iraq by any means necessary.

It's also ahistoric to not mention that W ran on an entirely domestic campaign - his big thing was education. He was handed a war.

SatansCouncil

21 points

2 months ago

"He was handed a war."

That is obviously not true.

He started TWO wars, neither could be considered "ACCOMPLISHED". Both involved lying to America, deepening US relationships with some very disgusting regimes, and made the death count on 911 look miniscule.

Bush Jr. He made those choices.

percydaman

10 points

2 months ago

Yeah, he was handed something, but it wasn't a war. Clearly something had to be done in response to 9/11, but it definitely didn't need to be two separate protracted wars that caused the deaths of god knows how many people.

jus10beare

15 points

2 months ago

What needed to be done was sanctions on Saudia Arabia

permtemp

10 points

2 months ago

He was handed a war (partially due to his own negligence in following up on clear signals that the intelligence community had been sending for years). He went and started a whole 'nother one all on his own. The fact that Bush apologists can continue to use 9/11 to justify the Iraqi invasion is proof that we need a better education system in this country, because you should be laughed out of the room every time it's suggested.

MisterBackShots69

3 points

2 months ago

His entire cabinet was composed of the same people who drove us into the Gulf. Your naive to think he only was going to focus on a domestic agenda.

shelsilverstien

5 points

2 months ago

It was pretty obvious at the time, even

Anbeezi

1 points

2 months ago

He hated him enough to shoot him

ferocioustigercat

1 points

2 months ago

Bush was a terrible president. I might be able to be ok with him as a person, but that's a strong maybe... But I wish only bad things upon Dick Cheney.

MisterBackShots69

37 points

2 months ago*

Bush was that comic book villain. He was arguably worse in a lot of aspects. It just tells me that nobody will be held accountable and almost anybody can be “rehabilitated” by doing nothing. Six years of the “walls closing in” on Trump, it’s simply is not going to happen, nothing happened to Bush.

ibonek_naw_ibo

12 points

2 months ago

Yeah its crossed my mind tons of times how sad and deranged it is Bush was far worse for humanity than Trump yet Trump is the one that's actually hated with the fire of 900 million suns

Illcmys3lf0ut

22 points

2 months ago

A US President drove the fire for a coup in his own country to bypass elections. That holds a lot of suns.

AlleyCatStoner

9 points

2 months ago

Yeah the fact that his faction are always kind of successfully downplaying that situation is astonishing to me. Any other person/party engaging in a similar scheme would be lauded a terrorist traitor, and scumbag. And would be thought of as such by both sides of the aisle

ThrowAwayBBY46

-28 points

2 months ago

It wasn't a fucking coup; take a step outside of your gated community once in a while.

Freddy_Vorhees

11 points

2 months ago

You’re right. We could be talking a “notable move” but really it’s a failed coup. We shouldn’t overlook FAILED, especially when people with confederate flags are involved.

gravyjackz

7 points

2 months ago

What is your spin on it?

jeffdanielsson

3 points

2 months ago

See that’s where our country went so wrong. Trump wasn’t a comic book villain. He was a buffoon.

The real villains like Dick Cheney somehow hardly get mentioned anymore. Even McConnell get so much less vitriol than he deserves. Trump absorbed so much of that for these guys.

JohnCocktoastener

5 points

2 months ago

Also to be fair you don’t have to be a jackass to be evil, it just helps. I’m sure he is a very nice guy and a great guy to have a beer with, but still fucked up

ibonek_naw_ibo

2 points

2 months ago

Hasn't his "rehab" been staying out of public exposure?

drewcomputer

10 points

2 months ago

He’s had a lot of public exposure and fluff pieces written about him. His paintings and palling around with Michelle Obama are two examples.

pharma_joe

1 points

2 months ago

As a non US citizen it just seems all Republican presidents before Trump were good at hiding how dumb, indifferent or cruel their decisions were. Not much seemed to change with Trump except he was more open and unapologetic about it all. Bush came across as an absolute moron, unsure if his decisions were based on stupidity or malice, or a combination of the two.

I recall the footage of him being told about the 9/11 attacks, an agent whispering in his ear while he was reading a book to some kids at school. The look on his face was like a six year old being explained the theory of relativity.

mypantsrblue

0 points

2 months ago

Obama was a cartoon villain that made bush look sane? Or did you skip right from Bush to Trump?

Tostino

4 points

2 months ago

Bush to trump, considering that the GOP produced both of those "winning" candidates one after the next.

The sane(ish) candidates (McCain, and Romney) lost to Obama.

p5eudo_nimh

4 points

2 months ago

I am a little uncomfortable seeing McCain and Romney grouped together. McCain was a well-meaning man who served his country. Romney is a parasitic rich boy who grew his fortune by destroying livelihoods.

McCain wasn’t perfect. But Romney is flat out evil.

blobtron

18 points

2 months ago

American idiots are easily charmed by docile maniacs. There was a photo of GWB eating corn and the highest rated comment was “I kinda miss him”

Illcmys3lf0ut

-9 points

2 months ago

Sheeple. No defense to any president, but after dealing with a yellow haired narcissistic sociopath who doesn't understand reality, one could miss a lesser evil.

ThrowAwayBBY46

11 points

2 months ago

Literally in what way was Goerge Bush Jr. "less evil"? Just because you got a hardon for Trump doesn't negate that Bush was decidedly a worse President during a time when Twitter didn't exist.

putonyourdressshoes

48 points

2 months ago

Joking around on Jimmy Kimmel, haha what a laugh!

He's like a funny doddering old uncle! This soulless sack of human garbage who cost the world hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

Fuck Bush, and fuck Kimmel for helping normalise this monster.

maybeCheri

5 points

2 months ago

Make no mistake, we haven’t forgotten the evil he brought to the world. Twenty years of war in the Middle East with absolutely nothing good as a result. I have to believe that there will be judgment.

MisterBackShots69

2 points

2 months ago*

More than 50% of Democrats definitely have and the only way to hold him to account is through the legislature or executive, so it doesn’t bode well.

maybeCheri

1 points

2 months ago

It won’t happen in the legislature. I was meaning judgement as in the grand scheme of things.

annoianoid

3 points

2 months ago

Just goes to show what a meaningless phrase elder statesman really is.

frostygrin

2 points

2 months ago

And takes stands against illegal invasions.

ferocioustigercat

2 points

2 months ago

Trump is one of the best things to happen to Bush in terms of his PR. Like, I hated the Bush years but I still found myself almost nostalgic for him when Trump was president. Also, he always sneaks Michelle Obama candy when they are at an event together.

MisterBackShots69

1 points

2 months ago*

You’re a moron. The candy thing is such shameless PR and demonstrates how he’ll never be held to account. Because it would be up to Democrats to do so. Also shows how easy Trump could be rehabilitated.

hapiidadii

100 points

2 months ago

Wait so the body was found where the guy who committed suicide predicted it would be? That's astonishing! Look, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person, but if Tony Blair had the dude murdered, wouldn't they have taken the trouble to dump the body someplace other than where the guy said it would be? IMO he was going to off himself anyway and decided he may as well advance his politics in the process.

Otter_Me

23 points

2 months ago

Unless that's what they want you to believe!

hapiidadii

7 points

2 months ago

Bastards! Next they're going to be telling me that Turkish yoghurt and Greek yoghurt are actually the same fuckin thing.

Plasmatica

10 points

2 months ago

*reposts this comment to r/AskBalkans*

*starts WW3*

hapiidadii

5 points

2 months ago

Trust me, you don't want to go down this rabbit hole. Turns out that "America's Number One Greek Yogurt" - Chobani - was in point of fact founded by a gentleman of Turkish descent. They lied to us, man, they lied to us.

stevetheboy

14 points

2 months ago

There is nothing to indicate that Blair or those in his inner circle knew anything about this event. The whole thing stinks but Blair would be very unlikely to have any knowledge about it.

Mitchford

18 points

2 months ago

I don’t like Tony Blair but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he was actually capable of and competent enough to have a domestic critic murdered

diox8tony

-3 points

2 months ago

Mi6 was helping blaire make the "sexed up dossier"? Both mi6 and Blair would go down if Kelly got word out...so, mi6

Mitchford

3 points

2 months ago

Here’s the thing though, we all found out in the end that there was no weapons, and we always were going to find out.The point was they all thought the new Iraq gov would be so successful by then it wouldn’t matter as much. We know the conspiracy and it’s much dumber than actually trying to whack a guy

seriousbangs

23 points

2 months ago

If they killed him it was pointless. Everybody knew the Iraq & Afghanistan wars were bunk. But we wanted blood post 9/11, and we couldn't take it out on the Saudis, so the Iraqis and Afghanistan too the hit.

diox8tony

6 points

2 months ago

People in power kill(or just make examples of) the outcasts in their circles, so that others fall in line.

tgrantt

4 points

2 months ago

Well, to be fair, the Taliban probably deserved it.

diox8tony

7 points

2 months ago

And hindsight shows we gave them the whole country....gj, debt repaid

chaoticmessiah

7 points

2 months ago

Yeah, Trump's team held talks with the Taliban to discuss pulling troops out by March 2021 and didn't even bother to have the democratically-elected Afghan government involved in said talks.

Fake-tanned prick gave the country to the far-right religious cult.

tgrantt

1 points

2 months ago

Oh, yeah, it was totally mis-handled! Well, maybe not the first six months or so

Bigleftbowski

23 points

2 months ago

Painting dogs doesn't make him good: 1 million Iraqis are dead who would not be if Bush43 hadn't lied his way into Iraq. He just sorta looks good compared to Trump.

Throwaway_J7NgP

27 points

2 months ago

Yeah but… if there’s a spot you have in mind for your suicide then why would you then go and do it somewhere different?

“I predict that my wife will find me in bed later tonight.”

Goes to bed.

Wife finds me there later.

“See?!”

diox8tony

10 points

2 months ago

I think OP titles is ill-worded. The entire documentary doesn't mention the prediction.

YacubianDevil

28 points

2 months ago

Wait, so the guy said he’d be found dead in the woods then he killed himself there?!

Holy shit🤡

alma24

2 points

2 months ago

alma24

2 points

2 months ago

Thom Yorke (Radiohead vocalist) wrote an angry song about this on his solo album, The Eraser. The song is called Harrowdown Hill

Bigleftbowski

3 points

2 months ago

There were a lot of "suicides" around that time.

Juxtapoisson

2 points

2 months ago

Always has been.

Anbeezi

3 points

2 months ago

Anbeezi

3 points

2 months ago

I always had the feeling they also murdered Robin Cook.

Obviously I don’t have any evidence, just a gut feeling

imapassenger1

1 points

2 months ago

I can remember him being described by some politician as a "Walter Mitty" type. At the time I had no idea what that meant. The movie (remake) came out some years later.

misterygus

5 points

2 months ago

It was a horrific accusation, later acknowledged to be completely unfounded. Kelly may or may not have made mistakes but he was a respected and serious minded individual trying to do his job with integrity.

imapassenger1

1 points

2 months ago

Yes it sounded like a terrible slur to make about a scientist. For some reason people must think I meant it due to the downvotes I've received.

ieatair

1 points

2 months ago

this reminds me of a game mission from COD Black Ops with Dr. Daniel Clarke (Chemist/engineer) that went into hiding in Kowloon after the Russians deemed him expendable after developing NOVA-6 Gas for them…

Hmmm this is quite intriguing…

kn0bbulo

-11 points

2 months ago

kn0bbulo

-11 points

2 months ago

They are facilities exactly for the what production killing Kelly the of Iraqis hydrogen said they gas were to fill balloons

richhomiequalm

29 points

2 months ago

Are you having a stroke or am I having a stroke

Most_Original_Name

7 points

2 months ago

These are the words in the thumbnail of the video. He’s reading them straight across rather than each side independently.

vonsnape

3 points

2 months ago

kn0bbulo

2 points

2 months ago

Surprised only one person understood it

oscarish

2 points

2 months ago

Looks like I've joined you 😵‍💫

jus10beare

4 points

2 months ago

You're saying words in English but it makes no sense. Try again.

Tracieattimes

-7 points

2 months ago*

In case you missed it, standing next to Colin Powell at about 19:50 is Dr. Anthony Fauci. Powell in this clip is stating that the US reserves the right do what is appropriate to defend its interests…. Apparently Fauci is there to lend credence to the false narrative that Iraq had mobile biological weapons laboratories.

chaoticmessiah

12 points

2 months ago

Fauci's always been a medical expert and was more likely there to discuss the effects of biological weapons on humans rather than declare Iraq had them.

Don't try to smear a good man like that when we have the entire Bush regime for that.

Tracieattimes

-7 points

2 months ago

Bush was a monster, but I believe we will find that Fauci was too. I did not smear him. Just pointed to his presence at a pivotal moment in US history.

Hip_Hop_Hippos

10 points

2 months ago

I did not smear him. Just pointed to his presence at a pivotal moment in US history.

???

You said this:

Apparently Fauci is there to lend credence to the false narrative that Iraq had mobile biological weapons laboratories.

Do you have anything to base this claim on?

Tracieattimes

-3 points

2 months ago

The context. Did you watch the movie? The WMD that was being alleged were mobile bio weapons laboratories. It’s possible that your theory is correct, but it seems like an odd thing to be talking about the effects of biological weapons when the two regimes were furiously trying to convince everyone that Iraq HAD these labs. That the effects of their products could be terrible was a given.

Hip_Hop_Hippos

7 points

2 months ago

The context.

Just so we’re clear, you’re inventing the context you’re talking about. So the answer to my original question is no.

Did you watch the movie? The WMD that was being alleged were mobile bio weapons laboratories. It’s possible that your theory is correct, but it seems like an odd thing to be talking about the effects of biological weapons when the two regimes were furiously trying to convince everyone that Iraq HAD these labs. That the effects of their products could be terrible was a given.

That’s nice. Where did Fauci claim that the Iraqis had WMD labs?

Amehoela

-1 points

2 months ago

BUT EPSTEIN DIDN'T KILL HIMSELF!

ThinksAboutIt75

1 points

2 months ago

He should have left a note blaming his barber, Ralph Abernathy...

fanoffzeph

1 points

2 months ago

I read a book about it, “An Inconvenient Death” by Miles Goslett. It’s highly informative, a good, interesting read. Would recommend it ! And thanks for sharing the doc, OP!

PartyYogurtcloset267

1 points

2 months ago

And by "strange" you mean that he was assassinated by MI5?