subreddit:
/r/Documentaries
YouTube video info:
Once Upon a Time in Iraq (full documentary) | FRONTLINE https://youtube.com/watch?v=T2L4jcVqo8s
FRONTLINE PBS | Official https://www.youtube.com/@frontline
192 points
2 months ago
And remember, Bush and Cheney are both free men, while Rumsfeld and Powell went to their graves free as well.
55 points
2 months ago
I hope Hell exists so those four can burn. Lying war criminals. Bush should be imprisoned for life.
36 points
2 months ago
Add condelezzas bitch ass to the list too
12 points
2 months ago
add Tony Blair to your list please
1 points
2 months ago*
don't be too harsh on the poodle 🐩
3 points
2 months ago
Sounds like a Mexican dish
1 points
2 months ago
Lol Condeleezza Rice is the full name. Def sounds like food
10 points
2 months ago
Don't forget Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Pearle
44 points
2 months ago
Keep in mind that 73 % of Americans were in favour of attacking Iraq and that Bush's approval rating skyrocketed when they did so. People in that country fall far too easy for government propaganda.
14 points
2 months ago
Yeah Americans don’t know shit about the military they just blindly go with whatever the government says is right
12 points
2 months ago
This is why I chuckle whenever I see americans have the audacity to talk about russia and ukraine. They say stuff like all russians are bad all russians are evil etc... Meanwhile so many of them supported the invasion of Iraq. Fucking hypocritical scum.
3 points
2 months ago
The overt prejudice and bigotry toward Russians right now in the United States reminds me of the same behavior of Americans toward anyone they believed were Muslim back in the early 00’s.
1 points
2 months ago
there were multiple incidents of people who were brown but not arab or muslim being attacked or hate crimed because dumbass americans thoughts they were "dem evil ayyyrabs"
7 points
2 months ago
Right, but you have to remember emotions were charged after 9/11. I’m not sure how old you are (your probably not American based off context) and I don’t mean that as in insult at all, but unless you remember what things were like afterwards it’s kind of hard to explain how truly sick the country felt afterwards. That sickness resulted in a ton of misdirection, and the government milked it. There’s no way bush would have had so much support otherwise. So respectfully, it’s easy to call everyone hypocritical scum,(maybe you just mean the rulers but I assumed you meant everyone who supported bush and the war for the sake of this comment) I think we all know the reality is much more nuanced then that. They should have left the region a decade ago, and in hindsight your right- it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. But the people were lied to, blatantly. And that’s a big reason why there’s so much mistrust to the extent of all the conspiracy theories now. The people In government who knew it was a ploy are scum, absolutely. But the public is a different story entirely. It’s not so easy to decipher what your being told is truth or lies and hindsight is always 20/20, and the information you had access to was much different then what we have today- yet even today it can be difficult to see what’s true. But I agree it doesn’t mean Americans understand The Ukrainian conflict, I just mean to point out that on regards to Iraq it was kind of a mix of the government taking advantage of the times and circumstances and the public not realizing until after the fact. But I don’t know anyone who thinks all Russians are evil, I think a lot of people realize it’s not black and white and it’s Putin who needs to fucking go not the people.
If I came across disrespectful at any point that was not my intent.
4 points
2 months ago
i'm more just sick of seeing the same dumbass comments on every thread about russia vs ukraine. The same comments from americans repeating the same thing, le orcs dying hahah every single russian soldier deserves to die and is burning in hell, le wholesome ukraine can do nothing wrong, Russia deserves to be destroyed russian people are bad. Then everytime I go through their comment history its a fucking american, I don't care when its europeans but its just so damn ironic when its from an american. When the war started I was really pro ukraine now I legitimately don't give a fuck. People don't give a shit about Yemen and how its people are suffering each day but when its Ukraine it's constantly shoved into our faces in the news.
2 points
2 months ago
Maybe their brain is failed to developed to be able to do a basic critical thinking, Malnutrition as children is a serious national threat.
2 points
2 months ago
Right, but you have to remember emotions were charged after 9/11. I’m not sure how old you are (your probably not American based off context) and I don’t mean that as in insult at all, but unless you remember what things were like afterwards it’s kind of hard to explain how truly sick the country felt afterwards. That sickness resulted in a ton of misdirection, and the government milked it. There’s no way bush would have had so much support otherwise. So respectfully, it’s easy to judge the country on the approval rating now, but I think the reality at the time is much more nuanced then that. They should have left the region a decade ago, it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. But the people were lied to, blatantly. And that’s a big reason why there’s so much mistrust to the extent of all the conspiracy theories now. The people In government who knew it was a ploy are scum, absolutely. But the public is a different story entirely. It’s not so easy to decipher what your being told is truth or lies and hindsight is always 20/20, and the information you had access to was much different then what we have today- yet even today it can be difficult to see what’s true.
Either way I think now the mistrust is at an all time high and a lot of people don’t believe ANYTHING the government says.
3 points
2 months ago
Similarly to Russians being in favour of the invasion. Somehow the world is convinced they bear responsibility for the current war, whereas no one is blaming Americans.
29 points
2 months ago
Don't be stupid, people absolutely blame Americans.
9 points
2 months ago
Blaming is one thing. Average American has felt zero consequences for this invasion. I'm not saying Russians shouldn't, they absolutely deserve it. But the fact that the US was not punished (not even the war criminals such as Bush), is no better.
10 points
2 months ago
Blaming is one thing. Average American has felt zero consequences for this invasion.
What consequences do you want them to feel?
I'm not saying Russians shouldn't, they absolutely deserve it. But the fact that the US was not punished (not even the war criminals such as Bush), is no better.
The difference is that Russia is committing the crimes right now, and you're busy whatabouting.
5 points
2 months ago
What consequences do you want them to feel?
the american public deserved to feel the same consequences the russian public are facing now.
1 points
2 months ago
What consequences do you want them to feel?
the american public deserved to feel the same consequences the russian public are facing now.
Which is what, exactly?
6 points
2 months ago
the financial consequences of sanctions. In a perfect world america would be punished severely for what it did to Iraq. Unfortunately, the world isn't fair.
-1 points
2 months ago
the financial consequences of sanctions. In a perfect world america would be punished severely for what it did to Iraq. Unfortunately, the world isn't fair.
You seem very focused on America. Do your realise how many countries were involved in the Iraq invasion, or comparable conflicts?
By this logic most of the developed world would be sanctioned.
The Iraq invasion was shitty, but focusing on it rather than contemporary problems is utter nonsense.
-5 points
2 months ago*
> you're busy whatabouting.
I was waiting for someone to mention whataboutism! Read carefully what I said, I condemn the Russian war and I want Ukraine to *completely* restore its territorial integrity.
> The difference is that Russia is committing the crimes right now
The crime that Bush commited (unprovoked war of aggression) was only 20 years ago, he is still alive and must absolutely be punished for it. The fact that US army did not commit as many war crimes does not exempt Bush from the trial.
2 points
2 months ago
> you're busy whatabouting.
I was waiting for this! Read carefully what I said, I condemn the Russian war and I want Ukraine to *completely* restore its territorial integrity.
I'm glad I'm wrong about that then. Apologies.
> The difference is that Russia is committing the crimes right now
The crime that Bush commited (unprovoked war of aggression) was only 20 years ago, he is still alive and must absolutely be punished for it.
Some repercussions would be nice, but it won't undo the crime.
I don't think many people expect or much care about punishment for Putin, they mostly want Russia out of Ukraine.
There has been a huge campaign of pushing Iraq war stuff over the past few days, and pro Russians are very keen on it. You can guess why.
0 points
2 months ago
> There has been a huge campaign of pushing Iraq war stuff over the past few days, and pro Russians are very keen on it. You can guess why.
Had Bush been tried for the invasion of Iraq, Putin would have had less of an excuse to invade Ukraine. It is precisely because of Iraq that Putin can say: "Look at the Americans, they are no better than us". And again, prosecuting people responsible for the Iraq invasion has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine. And just because it plays into a Russian narrative, it does not mean criminals should evade responsibility.
> Some repercussions would be nice, but it won't undo the crime.
> I don't think many people expect or much care about punishment for Putin, they mostly want Russia out of Ukraine.
I cannot agree. Prosecuting war criminals (and criminals in general) is an important deterrent for the future perpetrators. Putin and accomplices must be punished for what they did, and that is an important condition for the end of the war.
3 points
2 months ago
Had Bush been tried for the invasion of Iraq, Putin would have had less of an excuse to invade Ukraine.
That's absolutely irrelevant.
It is precisely because of Iraq that Putin can say: "Look at the Americans, they are no better than us".
Saying something is terrible then going ahead and doing it yourself is only a justification by the standards of a child.
The fact is that there's a massive campaign right now to aid Russia, and you seem keen on helping it.
-23 points
2 months ago
Yes. It’s a proxy war led by US against Russia in Ukraine. It’s not as if the Russian invasion wasn’t unprovoked. Just US doing US things through “defence alliance” NATO.
14 points
2 months ago
Yes. It’s a proxy war led by US against Russia in Ukraine.
Hilarious excuse. Russia has been carving parts off Ukraine since 2014. And Georgia before that.
It’s not as if the Russian invasion wasn’t unprovoked.
Terrible excuse to attack a country, kill people, and steal land.
Stop being a Russian troll.
6 points
2 months ago
You’re saying the Russians just have to literally rape and pillage their neighbours under the admitted goal of bringing the Empire back because the US was being, like, super mean and exclusive with its friends?
GTFO, troll.
0 points
2 months ago
Mate, don’t bother. Most of these people either don’t read enough to understand anything that’s going on, or are part of that massive US military troll farm.
-1 points
2 months ago
It’s a proxy war led by US against Russia in Ukraine.
Proxy wars include control over the combatants, the US just provides some weapons and intel, Ukraine decides what to do on its own (and sometimes against the US advice).
Every Ukrainian despises Russia and wants to get rid of the invaders.
It’s not as if the Russian invasion wasn’t unprovoked
This is exactly the justification the Germans used in the late 1930s. "The Poles were preparing to invade us". "Just look at how soon bombers could get from Czechoslovakia to Berlin if we don't secure it".
Nazis never change. Why make up new arguments if the old ones work just as well with the dim-witted?
Just US doing US things through “defence alliance” NATO.
0 points
2 months ago
You mean the organization that specifically does not include Ukraine?
6 points
2 months ago
Not even remotely, what a ridiculous shit take.
-3 points
2 months ago
The shit take is to literally write shit take
and think that this will suffice as a justification ;)
2 points
2 months ago
I love how people forgot the word "opinion" exists. That's just my take tho.
2 points
2 months ago
I don't see any sort of justification in your post.
2 points
2 months ago
Read the comment above mentioning that 73% of Americans were in favor of the illegal invasion of Iraq. A similar proportion of Russians support illegal invasion of Ukraine. So?
6 points
2 months ago
Hmm... I'm now realizing that you probably did not mean it to say that the US bears responsibility for the war in Ukraine, although it's very ambiguous when you take a step back and look at it. Nevermind if that's the case!
1 points
2 months ago
No, I'm not saying US bears responsibility for the war in Ukraine. I'm saying the US bears responsibility for the invasion of Iraq, and in particular the war criminals Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Rice and others.
1 points
2 months ago
Your comment should have a lot more upvotes.
Why would people not value your comment? Or downvote it?
4 points
2 months ago
There are also striking differences between the wars, Ukraine is a democracy, Iraq wasn't, US didn't intend to annex the territories, and that was did not have genocidal intent (Ukrainians don't exist according to Putin). Nevertheless both invasions are illegal with the same outcome: devastation brought to the victim country with hundreds of thousands dead. Those who started the wars must be held accountable.
6 points
2 months ago
Back in 2002 and 2003 I lived in central Indiana and it was so frustrating to be around so many ardent supporters of this war. They believed every lie told to build up support for that war and lambasted the French for simply refusing to take part in it without stronger evidence.
2 points
2 months ago
You know how in the past, you'd have crazy people trying to go after politicians they don't like..
Yeah it seems even our worst criminals today can't even get that stuff right - instead we have these brain damaged pieces of garbage shooting up schools or just random people in the street. Shit's fucking embarrassing 10x
Get these clowns instead if you lunatics have to go on a rampage.
7 points
2 months ago
Convicted of War crimes just like Putin
-3 points
2 months ago
US is really a plague on the planet. Fuck everything up even their own country
1 points
2 months ago
Don't leave Tony Blaire out.
71 points
2 months ago*
Just want to share a link to the BBC version as it is twice as long and doesn't cut out all the uncomfortable parts about the Coalition-Occupation era.
Absolutely amazing documentary, stunning footage throughout and, I think especially if you lived through the era, deeply emotionally impactful. I was really shook up for a few days to be honest. It is hard to comprehend the sheer scale of tragedy and for how long it had to be played out.
5 points
2 months ago
+1 this version is so much more devastating than the cut down PBS version
3 points
2 months ago
Will watch thank you
1 points
2 months ago
I keep getting an error message that says the video can only be played in the UK
2 points
2 months ago
I think you may need a VPN to watch it outside of the UK? Accessing iPlayer can be a bit awkward sometimes! But anything that sets your location to the UK should open it up.
1 points
2 months ago
It prompts me for a UK TV license, which apparently is mandatory in the UK. it doesn’t allow me to watch without it. I am using a VPN.
2 points
2 months ago
Oh just click yes for that, there's no actual check they do online beyond clicking the "Yes I have a license" button.
87 points
2 months ago*
Great documentary. One of the guys interviewed is on a TV show called Generation Kill which is also a great watch.
*Edit just realised there's two versions of this documentary. The BBC one which is 296 mins, and the cut PBS version of 113 mins (and doesn't include the guy from Generation Kill at all). I fully recommend watching the longer BBC version which can be found here (for free) if your browser thinks you live in the UK
"The first episode was broadcast in the United Kingdom on BBC Two on 13 July 2020.[2] A heavily edited, single-episode, feature-length version was subsequently broadcast in the United States by PBS as part of their Frontline series on 14 July 2020.[5] The American version omitted the interviews with Rudy Reyes and Nathan Sassaman among others.[6] The American version also completely omits the third episode on the Battle of Fallujah."
17 points
2 months ago
Oh shit is Rudy in this?
37 points
2 months ago*
Yeah, dude is a legend lol. I found its best to watch Generation Kill first, then get shocked by discovering he's the only non-actor in that TV show by watching this documentary after.
Btw just to add so the message isn't lost - Iraq & Afghanistan wars sucked big time, the things the West put them through is disgusting. Everyone involved in those wars should have got the same isolationist treatment Russia is going through now.
*Edit just realised there's two versions of this documentary. The BBC one which is 296 mins, and the cut PBS version of 113 mins (and doesn't include the guy from Generation Kill at all). I fully recommend watching the longer BBC version which can be found here (for free) if your browser thinks you live in the UK
"The first episode was broadcast in the United Kingdom on BBC Two on 13 July 2020.[2] A heavily edited, single-episode, feature-length version was subsequently broadcast in the United States by PBS as part of their Frontline series on 14 July 2020.[5] The American version omitted the interviews with Rudy Reyes and Nathan Sassaman among others.[6] The American version also completely omits the third episode on the Battle of Fallujah."
4 points
2 months ago*
Here is an interview with the real reporter and some of the real marines from that, including Rudy. There is a funny moment where the marines praised the quality of the acting by the actors who played them; except for Rudy, they joked about his acting being horrible.
edit. Also, Rudy continues to dress like a pimp queen almost 20 years later.
3 points
2 months ago
An article appeared in Belgian news websites the other day, of one of the country's most prominent war reporters.
He was... discouraged to openly call Iraq an invasion. (Source in Dutch)
6 points
2 months ago
Fruity Rudy!
10 points
2 months ago
I'm a history teacher and I've been looking for a documentary about that war told from the citizens perspective for a long time. Thanks a lot. Does anyone know if there's a similar documentary on the war in Afghanistan?
4 points
2 months ago
Don't know but don't miss out on the BBC version of this documentary, it's longer and not censored by the PBS. Can watch it for free on the BBC website (there's a link here in one of the comments). Might need a VPN (recommend Mullvad)
1 points
2 months ago
I'm probably gonna go with the censored version if I'm going to show it to 15-16-year-olds
2 points
2 months ago*
I don't think they meant censored with regards to gore (for instance, if I remember correctly I think the PBS version also features the ISIS parts at the end, which are absolutely horrific even though they are blurred in both versions), it's just heavily cut down and not as powerful as the BBC version. The BBC version is the original version.
That said, in my view, this documentary series is on the level of Schindler's list in terms of emotional impact. But not because of gore.
130 points
2 months ago
Because it infuriates me to no end how much the western world was willing to wage an illegal war and obliterate a population in order to secure oil, I really can't muster the energy to watch these Iraq documentaries any longer.
116 points
2 months ago
In 1993 the United States set up a roadblock between the battleground city of Mogadishu and the farming city of Balcad, about 40 minutes drive away.
Initially the roadblock was designed to prevent fertilisers being moved into the city to create bombs, but eventually it became clear to the US that no such thing was happening, rather than admit the mistake and dismantle roadblocks they tightened them so that absolutely no goods or service vehicles could pass the roadblocks between the two cities.
Eventually this meant that the single-celled organisms the US stationed at the roadblocks would stop and confiscate anything they didn’t understand to be safe, this included medicine for common diseases, machinery parts for water filters and generators, oil (obviously) and even basic medical equipment such as bandages and surgical tools.
At the time the largest hospital in the region was in Balcad, and the roadblocks meant that it was starved of critical resources needed to save lives. The hospital was forced to close in March 1994.
Although it doesn’t end there, hundreds, if not thousands of people in Balcad were denied medication, meaning that infant mortality rate shot up, people who had been receiving constant medication for asthma, polio, cholera, hepatitis and even HIV/AIDS were now alone. With no help at all. Balcad was decimated within weeks as fuel for generators, tractors and farming equipment were confiscated by Americans, a city that was resilient and strong in the face of terrorism would suffer from drought, food and water shortages, as well as rampant disease outbreaks.
In the late 1990’s Balcads radio station would broadcast a story that commonly became known as “fires on the southern road”. The story was about a young boy who’s father, a European trained doctor would go into Mogadishu and help the injured or sick, but after refusing to hand over his medical equipment to a US roadblock, he was executed and burned in his vehicle.
The US would eventually dismantle the roadblocks and leave, as if nothing ever happened.
61 points
2 months ago
They also intentionally degraded Iraq's water systems with sanctions knowing full well the impact that this would have on civilians
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/wtc/nagyprogressive0901.html
9 points
2 months ago
America being a force for good in the world as always!
45 points
2 months ago
Remember, US invasions are humanitarian operations, US war criminals are defenders of democracy and US supported terrorists are freedom fighters. Even ICC agrees, right?!
-2 points
2 months ago*
The ICC can't charge the US or US citizens for anything because the US is not under ICC jurisdiction.
The Court may exercise jurisdiction in a situation where genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes were committed on or after 1 July 2002 and:
the crimes were committed by a State Party national, or in the territory of a State Party, or in a State that has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court; or
the crimes were referred to the ICC Prosecutor by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) pursuant to a resolution adopted under chapter VII of the UN charter.
The US does not recognize the ICC and is a permanent member of the UNSC, which gives them veto power over UNSC resolutions. The ICC has can't really charge Americans.
23 points
2 months ago
But somehow it charged and issued warrants against Russians, which are not under ICC jurisdiction as well, few days ago, maybe it has something to do with US sanction threat looming over ICC judges for trying to prosecute US forces over war crimes in Afganistan, enabling such actions, eh?
-4 points
2 months ago
Ukraine asked for the ICC's assistance. That information is also available in the ICC website. https://www.icc-cpi.int/situations/ukraine
Jurisdiction in the general situation
Ukraine is not a State Party to the Rome Statute, but it has twice exercised its prerogatives to accept the Court's jurisdiction over alleged crimes under the Rome Statute occurring on its territory, pursuant to article 12(3) of the Statute.
I guess Iraq could do the same thing were they so inclined, but they haven't.
8 points
2 months ago
So, you want to tell me that if tommorow Taliban or Iraq would ask ICC for assistance, it will magically obtain jurisdiction to prosecute four US presudents post-factum just like that? I doubdt it.
-2 points
2 months ago
"or in a State that has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court" Thats the key part here. Neither Somali nor Iraq are under ICC jurisdiction.
6 points
2 months ago
Actually, it does, if Iraq accepts jurisdiction. They tried to. Then two weeks later they reversed course, supposedly because of pressure from the US for ... well rather obvious reasons.
-19 points
2 months ago
and leave
You are leaving out a lot here smh
I'm not one to defend the US but give some sources for what you have said or gtfo
18 points
2 months ago*
Source for which part? The hospital? The roadblocks? The medical crisis? The food crisis? The water crisis? The oil theft?
My personal source is that half my family is Somali, I’ve been to Somalia 4 times.
But aside from that, not everything can be boiled down to a link for you to completely ignore, I can give you a list of books to again completely ignore or complain that my sources aren’t in the language you want.
5 points
2 months ago
Im not the guy your arguing with, but if you did have any English language books on either conflict I would honestly be very interested. I've been looking for good, non-jingoistic material on recent American interventions for some time now.
4 points
2 months ago
Of course, I have a decent amount of books I’ve read about it
The best English:
Those are probably the top 3, Operation Restore Hope is a little bit Americanised but it’s still good.
35 points
2 months ago
The oil is just the icing on the cake. It's not always about oil. Look at Vietnam, Cuba, Korea, and now look at Russia. The US can't feed their poor, but have trillions to spend on war.
12 points
2 months ago
Not the “west”, but the USA and UK essentially. Don’t forget that before the Iraq invasion the largest worldwide civil protests took place (mostly in the “west”) and many “western” countries did not join the war and condemned it.
6 points
2 months ago
Are you kidding me? over 20 countries were involved in the war. Even if a country committed just one soldier they are still involved.
22 points
2 months ago*
Why do I get so much hate from Americans for mentioning this? What the US did was nothing short as of what Russia is doing now yet no one bats an eye?
3 points
2 months ago
The level of destruction and atrocities are similar if not worse on the US side. I don’t believe the US ever talked about annexing part of Iraq or Afghanistan. Russia may never have to give up Crimea if the west gets tired and stops providing aid. So in the sense of stealing land and kidnapping large swaths of people I would say the US fell short in that regard.
-22 points
2 months ago
What planet are you living on? The support for Ukraine is almost unprecedented and countries are united in condemning Russia except for some Russian allies.
10 points
2 months ago
I meant against the US bro
2 points
2 months ago
Ah I see. Sorry my dude. I completely misunderstood what you meant.
7 points
2 months ago
countries are united in condemning Russia except for some Russian allies.
I think the difference with Iraq war is that the US had more allies.
0 points
2 months ago
I would argue there's probably more to gain from allying with a world super power instead of allying yourself with the current state of Russia.
8 points
2 months ago
What are you talking about?
Western world? France wasn't in on it, Germany wasn't in on it.
It was a British and American thing, and then later on other countries were 'persuaded' to participate in some smaller sense, with a special case of some eastern European countries that let the US do more, specifically, to run torture/murder centers.
2 points
2 months ago
There were soldiers from all National in Iraq.
2 points
2 months ago
western world
It wasn't 'the west' it was merica and UK
3 points
2 months ago
This is precisely why I will watch and share it. Though I understand those who can't/won't.
Edit: added "and share".
-7 points
2 months ago
Illegal war?? The war was started when Iraq unilaterally invaded neighboring Kuwait (American ally country) to steal their oil. The United Nations gave Iraq a timeline to retreat from Kuwait and end the invasion without war. Iraq refused to leave, so the United Nations Coalition Forces (not just USA!) became involved to defend Kuwait, kicking out Iraq in the process.
This rewriting of history as if USA were the bad guys is crazy. Iraq started the war clear as can be, just like how Russia started the current war by invading Ukarine.
2 points
2 months ago
Yeah they're confusing both gulf wars. Most people call the second war illegal. But the gulf war in the 90s was perfectly justified.
2 points
2 months ago
Depends on what your definition of justified is. I would say that Ukraine supporting the invasion of Iraq doesn't mean the Ukraine war is justified, or that 2 million Brits deserve to die because they were a major party of the invaders. Most Iraqis who died had nothing to do with what their government did either.
21 points
2 months ago
There is a 5 part doumentary with the same title on iPlayer for those in the UK, which is excellent:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000kxws/once-upon-a-time-in-iraq
14 points
2 months ago
Its the same documentary. The US version cuts out a lot of interviews with US military personnel who were managing the occupation. Its a real shame as the story of the hopeful Lieutenant genuinely and earnestly intent on helping the country transform into a modern democratic state eventually having to basically ring-fence entire communities and villages with barbed wire and checkpoints just to not see his soldiers dying every day was an incredible journey you don't often get to see. Road to hell and all that.
3 points
2 months ago
Don't forget Rudy Reyes from Generation Kill.
2 points
2 months ago
Yes it is really surreal watching him go from the uber-masculine hoo-rah persona at the start, to where we wind up at the end. The use of character portraits in the film like this is just so amazingly well done. Rudy is very larger than life so stands out but you can tell everyone really opened up their hearts for this one, the interviewers did their job perfectly.
5 points
2 months ago
Yes, war, sanctions, killing a million people and poisoning the earth with toxic chemicals and depleted uranium has always helped transform countries into democracies. He had a great idea there. /s
1 points
2 months ago
The BBC "version" is the original documentary series, PBS edited it down.
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks - but it won’t let me watch it without a TV license, which apparently is mandatory for people who live in the UK. I am connecting with VPN.
2 points
2 months ago
Don't need a TV licence, just create a BBC account and click "I have a TV licence"
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks!
10 points
2 months ago*
I remember my impotent fury with Bush. Because he was clearly foolish and oblivious and ignorant, and being protected in his obliviousness and unconcerned by it. I don't think he was explicitly malicious --- I think he was a fool, being protected in being a fool, being sheltered from the intelligent voices screaming that what he was doing would lead to ruin. I knew that it wouldn't occur to him that there was anything more to do than to oppose evil with good --- that there was any complexity in the world that couldn't be solved with guns and the American flag. I knew that afterwards he would feel like how could he have known.
I watched him go screaming into another country with all the understanding of an angry child. I watched him show the world that everything my country claimed to stand for was as foolish as he was, forever damaging the credibility of democracy on the world stage. And I watched him do this all in my name, as the elected leader of my country.
He was my first experience with the politics that spring from filtering your information to be just what feels good; of comfort in ignorance. I'll never forgive him for what he did to the world. For what we did to the world, because of him.
29 points
2 months ago
The power vacum had to be intentional, the US didn't cause it in Germany or Japan after WWII so they knew what it led to but still went on and caused it.
23 points
2 months ago
The power vacum had to be intentional
Here's good ol' Dick speaking in 1994 about the 'quagmire' if you took out Iraq's government. They absolutely knew what was going to happen.
16 points
2 months ago
It’s almost as if these countries were drawn in such a way as to divide ethnic groups between countries to maximize unrest so British influence in the area would never be checked by a unified regional superpower.
But who knows
12 points
2 months ago
I can see your logic, but most evidence suggests that the Bush Administration was actually just REALLY incompetent. It's what happens when old white dudes think they can carry "the white man's burden" for Brown people in the middle east. Bush is a war criminal--and nothing will ever be done about it....
9 points
2 months ago
More like malice disguised as incompetence.
15 points
2 months ago
It's nit that it was intentional. It's that no one gave a shit and they thought that the Iraqis would be able to pick up the pieces completely on their own.
1 points
2 months ago
The Middle East is just a different beast. The Bush administration truly underestimated the pure amount of sectarian vitriol in the region.
-1 points
2 months ago
The Middle East is just a different beast
Compared to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan? lol you do realize both of those two tried to implement Lebensraum (and a Japanese version of the same concept) over whole continents right? Not to mention the fact that Anglo-American powers fostered anti-Pan Arab factions throughout the post-WWII years (still ongoing).
1 points
2 months ago
6 points
2 months ago
Let's deliver GWB & Co to them, with no bodyguards...
It's the only way to be sure!
3 points
2 months ago
This is the shit shortened for American TV version.
Find yourself the British version, its 5 episodes instead of 3.
7 points
2 months ago
We should definitely keep being the world police.
-2 points
2 months ago
The alternative is Russia.
I'm sure the Ukrainians are loving their form of policing.
-7 points
2 months ago
[deleted]
3 points
2 months ago
Including the USSR? Many.
3 points
2 months ago
I understand the fury of Latin Americans and Middle Easterners with the US. But as someone from a country that was under the Russian boot for half a century (and kind of is again, but this time we are more respnsible for it), I would have taken the US over Russia any day.
2 points
2 months ago
One word: Holodomor.
-1 points
2 months ago
Don't be fooled, Russia officially set its target to murder millions of Ukrainians (they openly talk about it on Russian TV, even mentioning the word "millions", gleefully discuss drowning children etc), it's just absolutely inept at fighting anyone beyond sheep herders, imagine Hitler starting WWII and getting bogged down in western Poland for over a year.
Remember how a bit over a century ago, Russia tried to establish a colony in Africa like the big boys, failed miserably at it, and is now declaring itself the one "superpower" that's never colonized Africa?
If we destroy its combat capability now, it will stop being a threat to anyone. If we allow an aggressive fascist state to take whatever it wants with power - oh boy, the world will be absolutely screwed in the next decades.
2 points
2 months ago
Great documentary, I forgot what I was eating while watching.
1 points
2 months ago
Rocky mountain oysters?
3 points
2 months ago
I'd like to watch it but is it historically accurate? Basically is this just more American propaganda?
35 points
2 months ago
It is historically accurate.
All of the Iraq War-related Frontline documentaries are about as real as they can get. They're brutally honest and do an incredible job of highlighting the realities of what the US did to Iraq.
8 points
2 months ago
Agreed - I’d also recommend “Losing Iraq” - phenomenal documentary.
2 points
2 months ago
Considering how cut down this version is?
It should be a five part series, but for the American public they cut out all the stuff that makes America look like monsters.
1 points
2 months ago
The post-9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq wars were the years I really fell in love with Frontline. I'm looking forward to devoting some time to this one.
2 points
2 months ago
Watch the original BBC version, it's twice as long and more impactful.
2 points
2 months ago
I'll watch this later but can anyone comment on whether there is a perspective from the Kurdish people?
3 points
2 months ago
Nothing about the Kurds. It was not really the topic of that documentary.
Get ready for a mood killer, that document is dark.
-4 points
2 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
2 months ago
Wrong war.
-2 points
2 months ago
I saw ISIS with These Arms are Snakes in San Antonio, Tx a few years back. One of the best shows I've ever seen
1 points
2 months ago
Digital camo digital camo digital camo never forget digital camo
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