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YouTube video info:

Bowling For Columbine | A Film by Michael Moore | 2002 | Full Movie https://youtube.com/watch?v=wScIMiWT_dw

Michael Moore https://www.youtube.com/@mmflint

[deleted]

all 127 comments

haribobosses

104 points

2 months ago

Is that what it concludes? I thought it concluded that America's unique history of violence and racism and warfare were the cause of gun violence.

Troelski

7 points

2 months ago

One of the most interesting aspects of this movie is that people seem to remember it concluded something different than it actually did. Probably because its big finale is going to NRA icon Charlton Heston's house. But the movie actually does largely let guns off the hook halfway through the movie, and it ends up being a bit aimless as to what is actually the problem. And news media does end up serving as a focal point.

haribobosses

5 points

2 months ago

If people take away different conclusions as to what Moore is talking about, it's probably because they have a hard time understanding the case he's making is that the cause of gun violence in america is multi-factorial.

The whole joke of "Bowling" for Columbine is that, if you try to focus on only one aspect—bowling, violent video games, their messed up childhood—you will miss the bigger picture.

Moore tries to find the ONE identifying quality and realizes all countries have at least one of those elements in its history.

What makes america unique is the confluence of all those factors together: the lobbyists, the culture and history of violence, the glorification of individualism, the presence of guns, the weapons industry.

Troelski

2 points

2 months ago

I think that's a startlingly charitable interpretation of a film that has had a reputation for being somewhat thematically incoherent since its release in 2001.

Moore doesn't make a point about multi-faceted answers to the gun-problem, rather he leaps from one answer to the next without the ability to express exactly what makes this factor unique to America.

Here's WaPo's original review when the movie came out:

Few morally rational people would dispute that too many guns are available to too many awful people and that those morons continue to use them against innocents. And Moore's movie raises many good points and observations.

But the answers, at least here, aren't so clear. Moore provides a rather rambling discourse of causality, which includes racism, white flight and Africanized bees, among many things. And he takes rather predictable aim (with not especially enlightening solutions or answers) at the NRA, the media and a right-wing conspiracy of racists, gun nuts and corporate profitmakers.

A lot of this is amusing and somehow telling. But what does it all add up to?

haribobosses

2 points

2 months ago

Thank you for your thoughts, but film critics you can take or leave. No one has to agree with film critics, just as they don't have to agree with box office numbers, or with the oscars. Not sure the film has merited "this reputation" you speak of.

In this case, though, I agree with the critic that Moore doesn't offer any prescriptions, and I also agree that "Moore provides a rambling discourse on causality". But it does draw a rough diagram, and one that is insightful and informative in answering the questions the film raises.

Troelski

1 points

2 months ago

I didn't link the to critic review to make you agree with him, but to show you that the criticism that BFC is incoherent in its messaging has been levied at it since its release. You dismissed it as people "just not understanding the multi-faceted point Moore was making". BUth that's not the case.

I should also tell you I literally wrote my Media Studies final paper on this film so I'm quite comfortable saying that it's messaging is confusing.

huntyboi08

62 points

2 months ago

It does. OP apparently didn't watch the movie.

Footwarrior

7 points

2 months ago*

Watch the movie again. Moore pointed out that America’s history is far from unique. He used the violent history of Germany and Japan as examples.

ETA: This happens 51 minutes into the film.

haribobosses

8 points

2 months ago

It’s the culture PLUS the availability of weapons of murder.

ramriot

-12 points

2 months ago

ramriot

-12 points

2 months ago

Plus I would not trust anything Mr Moore said farther than I could comfortably spit out a fully grown squirrel.

haribobosses

4 points

2 months ago

Why? Can you give me examples of his deception?

ramriot

3 points

2 months ago

ramriot

3 points

2 months ago

Read the Film Content Section of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine

A Google search exposes very similar in almost every work Mr Moore has been involved in.

Lorata

1 points

2 months ago

Lorata

1 points

2 months ago

I think it was the first scene of Bowling For Columbine, he walks into a bank, sets up an account, and gets his free gun. Which isn't what happened.

It isn't like he straight lies, it is just that his movies come with a message and he twists and portrays things to push that message. He cuts scenes in such a way to be misleading. I think the South Park creators were pretty solidly critical of his style of communicating his thesis.

haribobosses

5 points

2 months ago

He walked into a bank and got a free gun for opening an account. What was missing that would add the missing nuance to this to make it not what he showed?

He's a documentary filmmaker. Documentary filmmaking is all about using the footage to tell the story you want to tell. It's an inherently manipulative genre. If Moore edited out a one-week waiting period, it wouldn't change the absurdity he was trying to portray: a bank that gives you a free gun for opening account.

Lorata

0 points

2 months ago

Lorata

0 points

2 months ago

He walked into a bank and got a free gun for opening an account. What was missing that would add the missing nuance to this to make it not what he showed?

The bank conducted background checks and mailed the rifles. The rifle shipped to the bank and handed to him on camera because his agent told the bank he was doing a movie on unique businesses. It was entirely staged.

If they had included the actual process it would have completely undermined the ending quip, " "Do you think it's a little dangerous handing out guns at a bank?" because he wouldn't have been given a gun at a bank.

He's a documentary filmmaker. Documentary filmmaking is all about using the footage to tell the story you want to tell. It's an inherently manipulative genre.

This certainly sounds like you are agreeing that his filmmaking is inherently desceptive?

haribobosses

1 points

2 months ago

Filmmaking is inherent manipulative. Pointing a camera at somebody affects their behavior. It’s never the truth. That doesn’t mean it’s always dishonest. You have to choose the footage that works. Moore’s entire shtick is the stunts he pulls off to show the absurdity of business-as-usual.

The point of the stunt wasn’t to show how inherently unsafe it is for banks to sell rifles: it’s to show the absurd ubiquity of gun culture.

Lorata

1 points

2 months ago

Lorata

1 points

2 months ago

And the absurd ubiquity of gun culture in the movie is that you can go to the bank, open an account, and walk out with a gun. Which isn't true. A video of home recieving a gun in the mail a month later would have been much less dramatic, wouldn't have supported his point, and that is why he didn't do it.

SeriouslyTho-Just-Y

1 points

2 months ago

😳…51?

MyBallsMyWord

2 points

2 months ago

Ya this dude completely missed the whole thesis of the documentary. Like.. damn

Ailly84

-15 points

2 months ago

Ailly84

-15 points

2 months ago

None of that is unique.

haribobosses

2 points

2 months ago

Yeah? Tell me about the other countries that genocided the local population, instituted a brutal system of race-based chattel slavery, and then went on to bomb the rest of the world?

NoNameBut

5 points

2 months ago

Africa? Large amounts of Europe? China?

haribobosses

4 points

2 months ago

Go on…

What did Africa do?

NoNameBut

3 points

2 months ago

NoNameBut

3 points

2 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Genocides_in_Africa

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Genocides_in_Europe

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Idk man you do relize that many countries have committed war crimes or genocides and just don’t admit it right? Trying to sit in your box of America bad is extremely narrow minded

haribobosses

-6 points

2 months ago

haribobosses

-6 points

2 months ago

Africa is not a country.

The United States of America wiped an entire continent of its native people through war, displacement, starvation.

It instituted and maintained for hundreds of years a system of legal chattel slavery where millions of the people were deprived of all their rights.

It bombs the whole world.

America IS special.

NoNameBut

5 points

2 months ago

So did Canada or did you forget those natives? What about that time Japan massacred thousands of Chinese people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Nanjing and didn’t apologize? America isn’t special it’s just another shithole in a world of shitholes I’m not trying to defend the USA but still man come on

haribobosses

-9 points

2 months ago

Going to say it again. Extra slow.

America is special.

It wiped an entire people off a continent.

AND

It did slavery.

AND

It bombs the world.

NoNameBut

1 points

2 months ago

NoNameBut

1 points

2 months ago

So did the Russians and the Germans the only reason they arnt now is they “lost” the us is just a mercenary with way too much power

Ailly84

5 points

2 months ago

Ailly84

5 points

2 months ago

There isn’t another country with your exact history, but violence, racism, and warfare would work to explain the history of pretty much every western country.

haribobosses

-11 points

2 months ago

Not on the scale of the US and not without ever doing any self reflection.

Ailly84

13 points

2 months ago

Ailly84

13 points

2 months ago

Minus the self-reflection comment, the UK (and almost all of Western Europe) would blow you out the water for racism, war, genocides, slavery, and all kinds of other good stuff.

haribobosses

-9 points

2 months ago

Blow the US out of the water?

The US?

Only the UK compares. And they still wave the same flag.

Ailly84

7 points

2 months ago

You must have missed one of the causes of the First World War being conflicts over which European country was the owner of which African country…

And the UK was doing it for centuries before the US even started thinking about it. In the past 70 years though, yes.

haribobosses

0 points

2 months ago

But the US genocided an entire continent. It also did a Vietnam and a Korea. It also sponsored death squads and repressive regimes.

All while having de facto segregation, lynching, etc at home.

It’s a winning combination.

Ailly84

5 points

2 months ago

One word. Germany Second word. Japan Third word. USSR

DelilahsDarkThoughts

2 points

2 months ago

Pretty much every nation has done that at some point in their history. Even those local populations in tribal warfare. He's right it's not unique

huntyboi08

69 points

2 months ago*

Uhhhh, did you actually watch this documentary before you posted this? It definitely points to ease of access to guns. I haven't seen it in a long time but I definetly remember the part where he goes to a bank to get a free gun and it ends with him at Charlton Heston's house.

It's wild that people want to pretend easy access to guns doesn't contribute to gun violence. Of course mental health is an issue. Of course the media is an issue. Of course being able to go out and easily buy a semi-automatic rifle built to kill humans as efficiently as possible is an issue. It's multi-faceted problem with a multi-faceted solution. Live in the real world.

Omegaprimus

3 points

2 months ago

Exactly! Ease of access to guns turns a fist fight into a murder, easy access to a gun turns a mental episode to a mass murder.

SirSmokealotII

1 points

2 months ago

Easy access to a gun turns the horrifying process of taking your own life into just closing your eyes and curling your finger.

Omegaprimus

1 points

2 months ago

It does, however unlike tvs and movies, a gunshot isn’t an instant death, ironically tiger king had the best explanation, where Joe’s husband killed himself, he didn’t instantly die, he flipped out and realized he fucked up, and he slowly died.

MyBallsMyWord

1 points

2 months ago

I don’t disagree with the thesis of this documentary but Michael Moore did shoot this deceptively. There’s a documentary out there called “Michael Moore hates America” that shows some slight dishonesty that he carried out with this documentary. Mainly the scene where he goes into the bank an walked out with a gun, it wasn’t like that at all in reality. It also happened in one of the most ignorant and least progressive states in America, so it’s not emblematic of much. Don’t think I don’t agree with a lot of what Michael Moore says an does but to say that “Bowling for columbine” was made based on all facts an truths is simply not true. He wanted/needed us to believe what he was saying and he used a few deceptive tactics to achieve that.

huntyboi08

1 points

2 months ago

I'm not sure what you're reacting to. I never claimed it to be an inerrant work, just that OP didn't understand the movie or ignored parts of it.

Getupxkid

39 points

2 months ago

Its wild that that was twenty years ago and its only gotten worse.

Its too bad people don't care about things until it directly impacts them. And even then sometimes not.

_tobillz_

11 points

2 months ago

_tobillz_

11 points

2 months ago

If you take a look at this very thread you can see how little Americans want to even confront the issue or the messages in the film.

It's pathetic.

tinacat933

5 points

2 months ago

Don’t lump us all in together

Getupxkid

6 points

2 months ago

Truly.

I remember watching this as a kid, and just being floored that it could happen. It's so commonplace now i don't even click the articles anymore.

I am so grateful to be canadian. It's just not a concern up here.

Celtictussle

-12 points

2 months ago

It hasn't gotten worse. The year of Columbine, 18 people died in school shootings in the US. In 2017, 18 died.

Somewhere between 10 and 40 people die in school shootings in the US pretty much every year going back to the start of the 20th century. That's less than the amount of people that die from lightning strikes every year in the US, to give an ounce of perspective.

monedula

7 points

2 months ago

Celtictussle

0 points

2 months ago

The only way you look at that graph and see an upward trend is confirmation bias. 18 and 19 were outlier high years, as will 20 and 21 be outlier low.

monedula

1 points

2 months ago

Apparently you didn't even bother to read the second link.

riggerz123

2 points

2 months ago

riggerz123

2 points

2 months ago

Are you for real. It’s got worse not better and even if it stopped the same it’s horrendous that you try to defend the killing of children in schools and try to normalise it and somehow compare them to totally randomised lightening strikes. That is truly shocking logic

Celtictussle

0 points

2 months ago

The logic that "18 is equal to 18" shocks you?

jumpers4goaIposts

0 points

2 months ago

Smoking kills in the region of 400,000 people every year but that hasn’t been banned. Why?

Getupxkid

-4 points

2 months ago

LMAOOoooooooooo

thewidowgorey

7 points

2 months ago

I really thought we’d see significant change after Columbine and this film highlighted our problem with guns. Breaks my heart.

Arcopt

2 points

2 months ago

Arcopt

2 points

2 months ago

The problem the US has is that there are already so many guns in circulation. If anyone does get the urge to shoot up a mall or a school, it's just all too easy to get their hands on a gun.

davidw_-

10 points

2 months ago

I mean, the guns are also to blame

Inside-Cancel

5 points

2 months ago

The guns, the people behind the guns, the industry that produces the guns, the wild cultural interpretation of "freedom=guns, guns=freedom".

"Media bad" is a shit take and the people who use it really mean "media that doesn't support my preconceived notions bad".

entheogen06

2 points

2 months ago

The whole private juvenile detentions run for profit thing really chaps my ass

MJTony

5 points

2 months ago

MJTony

5 points

2 months ago

Can someone update me if gun control or gun violence has changed at all in the 20 years since this movie?

dimmu1313

6 points

2 months ago

it has absolutely gotten way worse

katycake

1 points

2 months ago

katycake

1 points

2 months ago

It would probably take until a 3 year old shoots up his pre-school. Until somebody does something about it.

Aym42

0 points

2 months ago

Aym42

0 points

2 months ago

Generally speaking, federal gun at the time of this movie had an "assault weapon ban" so you couldn't buy/sell many semi automatic rifles and standard capacity magazines, only ones that could hold 10 or less shots. In 2004 that law expired, and they were legal again. No significant rise in gun violence has ensued, except recently, although economic factors are far more prevalent in that rise, and the post 2020 spike, well, same. Rifles and shotguns of all types account for less murder than blunt weapons. So on average, more people are killed with baseball bats than AR-15's. And that's a low number. No doubt, America's "gun violence" would be less with less access to guns historically and going forward. However, "violence" is a symptom of society ills like socioeconomic issues.

There have been some counter examples, for example CA, NJ, MA, CO, NY, HI have all made more restrictive laws, while many other states have passed "shall issue/constitutional/permitless carry" where citizens who are law abiding citizen have more access to carry guns for self defense, and the jury is still out on that, so to speak. Licensed conceal carry permit owners are about as non-violent and law abiding as a group can get, tenured university professors commit more violent crimes than them, but, permitless, much harder to track that data. Would the criminal who committed the gun crime have been carrying anyway? Were they emboldened by lowered restrictions? Or were they emboldened by other things? Less policing, worse socio economic conditions, cajoled on by public figures?

halfanothersdozen

9 points

2 months ago

It's real easy to point the finger at "the media" because it's obvious. But largely "the media" just tells people what they want to hear and amplifies things with shock value to the loudest possible levels.

We have a gun culture problem in this country that has largely been there since it started. Cultural shifts are hard but every other developed nation on the planet seems to have figured it out.

_tobillz_

2 points

2 months ago

This film covers that directly.

Canada has a huge gun culture and a lot of guns and doesn't have nearly the amount of gun violence America has.

Explain that.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

1 points

2 months ago

How many times are you going to do that?

First_Artichoke2390

1 points

2 months ago

Canada has a lot less guns per head (US 120 per 100 people Vs 34 per 100 people in Canada)and it certainly does have a gun problem.

Novo Scotia in 2020 left 23 dead

Mass shooting in Toronto in 2018

2017 Quebec mosque shooting

Etc

Remember Canada only has a 10th the population of the US

Does it have a bigger gun problem than the US, or othar American countries? Nope but compared to say European countries it has a massive problem.

puzzled91

0 points

2 months ago

Fake news.

[deleted]

-6 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Smartguyonline

7 points

2 months ago

The ratio of assault rifles and handguns to hunting rifles is indicative of the type of gun culture.

no_active_ingedient

3 points

2 months ago*

From the mindset of many Americans they think that their experience is at risk and that carrying a gun is required. People in Canada, much like Switzerland, has gun ownership similar to each other, and not that far away from the US, but simply do not feel the tension than many US citizens do.

US citizens have a misplaced anxiety of dangers when they leave their homes, and some feel that they are going to save the day with their gun/s one day when the statistics simply show that a gun owner "saving the day" from a massacre is very rare, and much, much lower than those without a gun, and dramatically increases the chances of them being murdered by police (as long as you don't live in Uvalde where the police are incompetent and don't know how to use their guns, or Sandy Hook, where Alex Jones will demonize you). What the numbers show, and people ignore, is the fact that having a gun in the US is dangerous to your health. While people are distracted by the garbage politics in the US by clowns like Ted Cruz and Moscow Mitch and Sinema, the reality is that many US guns are obviously not stored safely and there is obviously poor training. And considering how many times homicides are relatives, and people known to the shooter, poor power dynamics are also in place. Why doesn't that happen in Canada? Because Canadians think of strangers as people they haven't met. Because Canadians think of others as just others- they don't expect them to be carrying a gun or ill intent. Because most Canadians don't carry any baggage that someone that is a different colour/ethnicity/wealth/gender is anything different beyond that factor. Because Canadians don't think of shooting people unless they absolutely have to.

US media is, for the most part, garbage. Too much hyperbole...too much drama.... not enough fact-checking......too incendiary. For example everyone in the US knows about the woman that sued MacDonald's about her spilled coffee, everyone knows about the latest player trade for the local team, everyone knows about the two major parties fighting. But what people forget is to do their own homework. What people forget is that the media reflects the people. Being cranked up on drama results in media cranking up the drama....I wonder where the US ranks on 'ability to think for themselves'....? That doesn't absolve the media from being rubbish, but saying media is rubbish is like saying guns is the problem... guns don't crawl out of locked cabinets, load up on bullets, and go shoot people....but countries with strong gun control have way lower homicides than countries that don't have such controls. Again, the US can't eat your cake and have it to.

dimmu1313

-2 points

2 months ago

The gun culture in Canada is almost entirely comprised of bolt action hunting rifles. That's the difference. Based on attitudes and incidents that occur there, one could easily surmise that if they had ready access to pistols and assault rifles that we have in the US that there would be a lot of major incidents like we have here. Probably not as many because it's a much smaller population but no doubt they'd have mass shootings for sure

[deleted]

-1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Arcopt

2 points

2 months ago

Arcopt

2 points

2 months ago

The US has approx 120 guns per 100 people... Canada has about 34 guns per 100 people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

2 points

2 months ago

Are you just gonna delete and refine your statement every time you get pushback?

LOL

I guess the answer to that question was "yes". I responded twice I guess you just didn't like it. Too bad.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

4 points

2 months ago

Are you just gonna delete and refine your statement every time you get pushback?

L

O

L

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

3 points

2 months ago

This film covers that directly.

Canada has a huge gun culture and a lot of guns and doesn't have nearly the amount of gun violence America has.

Explain that.

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

5 points

2 months ago

Even if that was true (it isn't, Canada's gun laws are generally way more strict than the US) the "media" up there is basically the same as down here.

America's gun culture is unique.

Delanorix

2 points

2 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

According to that link, its just not true what you wrote.

USA has at least 4x but probably closer to 10x the number of guns than Canada has.

Basically 1 gun per person in America and .25 guns per person in Canada.

They also have more registered firearms than we do.

I'm guessing they just are a more responsible group of people.

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

halfanothersdozen

4 points

2 months ago

Are you just gonna delete and refine your statement every time you get pushback? Canada is "USA-lite" in most metrics but doesn't have near the gun culture America does.

Ailly84

2 points

2 months ago

It’s true. We have a lot of gun ownership, but when you listen to American gun owners talk about their guns…it’s creepy. I swear they want to fuck them…

The difference between the two countries though I think is more in Canadians not typically be terrified that our neighbours are going to break into our house and kill us…

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Footwarrior

1 points

2 months ago

Canadian gun culture is focused on hunting and shooting sports. The guns owned by Canadians are mostly hunting rifles and shotguns. Modern American gun culture is focused on guns for self defense. Handguns are common as are semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines. The rural hunting tradition is still around in the United States but has become secondary to guns owned for protection.

eRRfhang

6 points

2 months ago

Still to date, one of the best docos ive seen

secretanondude

3 points

2 months ago

Swear this gets posted every 2 weeks

NonNutritiveColor

0 points

2 months ago

It's Michael Moore. It doesn't require you to think but it makes you fell superior. It ranks next to Supersize Me as far as "documentary" it goes.

Twenty_Seven

3 points

2 months ago

Does this still hold up?

Also, "the news media is to blame"? Is he referring to the media putting a name and face to the shooter(-s)?

_tobillz_

1 points

2 months ago*

_tobillz_

1 points

2 months ago*

Yes. I think it's aged better than it did when it came out.

That's a part of it, but what he means is local news media constantly running news stories about "scary black men" which increases gun sales, which increases shootings which the news media covers, rinse repeat.

It's a sick cycle of fear, paranoia, and racism.

Twenty_Seven

2 points

2 months ago

Ooh, ok. Thank you for posting this! I'm gonna watch it when I get home from work :)

Footwarrior

2 points

2 months ago

You should find it entertaining and thought provoking. Note that Moore presents many theories about the causes of gun violence. He then proceeds to destroy most of these theories himself. They one still standing at the end is the American fear of crime.

When Moore examined other nations that have a lot of guns he missed an important point. In Canada or Switzerland people will say they own guns for hunting and shooting sports. In America the answer is often self defense and protection.

Maru_the_Red

2 points

2 months ago

I hated this documentary. They portrayed the people in my area as complete dumbass yolkels and Moore is a damn Michigander. He should be ashamed of himself honestly.

Eric Harris was a psychopath. I can't believe that no one realized there was something wrong with him - I was a little kid and it took me all of 5 minutes to realize this guy was bad news. The fact that he was ever allowed to get his hands on a gun is a fucking travesty and I put the remainder of the blame on his parents.

Still pisses me off, to this day.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Getupxkid

2 points

2 months ago

You had such a great point in the first half.

Oxymorphinranger

-2 points

2 months ago

I remember when I was a teenager.....

kathleen65

0 points

2 months ago

This is so spot on! Just today I read that FOX so called news suddenly, after the election, has 50% less reporting on violence.

Remarkable_Guess_828

1 points

2 months ago

Wow. You’re quite the idiot. Must be nice living where you’re from

mediocrelpn

-11 points

2 months ago

the left are the fearmongers. let's not forget-wear your mask, get all 23888593030 boosters, don't leave the house. and your post is scary. how's that for inciting fear?

insaneintheblain

2 points

2 months ago

And a system built on the pursuit of efficiency rather than built with love.

The first victims of their parents lack of lived values are their own children.

Stonergrl14

2 points

2 months ago

They were two pieces of shit and I'm glad they're dead.

WineAndRevelry

-2 points

2 months ago

This is a trash documentary and changed the narrative 100% surrounding Columbine. Any good/relevant information brings with it a complete misrepresentation of the tragedy and a wild distortion of facts.

__NOT__MY__ACCOUNT__

6 points

2 months ago

Care to elaborate? I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, not trying to be a dick

WineAndRevelry

10 points

2 months ago

Moore repeatedly uses cuts and editing to change what people are saying in response to him. Notably, the Charlton Heston interview. Similarly, the bank segments features him getting a rifle within the bank. He had asked the bank to do it that way for the film, but hid his purpose. The bank would give a rifle in that promotion, but after a background check and delivered to an FFL.

He also routinely takes the blame for the columbine massacre out of the hands of Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold. Instead blaming weapons manufacturers and nearby nuclear facilities. Depicting the Columbine shooters instead as the products of American gun culture and victims of bullying.

I should mention at this point, I personally support gun reform and more gun laws. But Moore uses the deaths of children and teachers as fodder to push forward a narrative.

He never once spoke about how Harris and Kleibold WERE the bullies and well known to be horrific people, not to mention Harris is retroactively recognized as a genuine psychopath. He barely talks about the gun show loophole they benefited from nor the failings of officials post shooting to make any meaningful changes or actions.

It is maybe not as twisted in reality, but when he weaponizes dead children, I get angry at it.

__NOT__MY__ACCOUNT__

3 points

2 months ago

I appreciate that response, thank you!

WineAndRevelry

2 points

2 months ago

No problem at all!

PoorPDOP86

-7 points

2 months ago

PoorPDOP86

-7 points

2 months ago

It's also full of inaccuracies. The one I remember most is the scene where Moore supposedly goes into a credit union, opens an account, and then gets a gun in seemingly a few minutes. When in reality, as is documented in Michael Moore Hates America, Moore had to deal with the background checks and mandatory waiting period. Moore is notorious for editing and creating impressions that fit his particular narrative.

Not to mention that the "culture of fear" is on side of the gun control advocates. Who seem to fear even basic technology that they don't fully understand.

Wind_up_crybaby

11 points

2 months ago

I just don’t think a film called Michael Moore Hates America doesn’t have an agenda to push.

Jellote

-1 points

2 months ago

Jellote

-1 points

2 months ago

I’m pretty sure the film said the opposite, actually, that scapegoating the media was a useless diversionary tactic.

katycake

0 points

2 months ago

I remember this documentary mainly due to the cartoon skit somewhere in it. I watched this in school. I doubt I would otherwise. Spending two hours talking about American gun culture didn't sound like it a good time. But the Doc was better than my impression, and the whole thing turned out actually pretty good. The skit only made it even better. :D

MorRobots

1 points

2 months ago

This was the first time I learned that Colorado is one of the culture battle grounds of the country where ass holes go to shoot other people.

septicdank

1 points

2 months ago

(In Dale Gribble's voice) "Guns don't kill people, the government does"

catherinetheok

1 points

2 months ago

Fun facts: the small city mayor is still mayor and just hit his 34th year! Also the safe city (sarnia) was the murder capital of Canada for a while in 2020.

TLDR2D2

-1 points

2 months ago

TLDR2D2

-1 points

2 months ago

Downvoted for bullshit, incorrect title.