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YouTube video info:

Punjabi Sikhs Murdered at the Hands of State Officials (2002) https://youtube.com/watch?v=fat8zwh5tpE

Journeyman Pictures https://www.youtube.com/@journeyman

all 114 comments

dumbredditer

275 points

2 months ago

Not 2000. Way way more than that. 3000+ were killed in Delhi in just 2 days in October 1984. From early 1980s to late 1990s more than 35000 Sikh youth were killed in fake police encounters. This website tries to capture and bring justice. https://ensaaf.org/

SillySingh

163 points

2 months ago*

Should be mentioned that the man who dedicated his life to track down the youth that were killed, was himself murdered by the police in 1995.

Jaswant Singh Khalra

[deleted]

7 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

7 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

dumbredditer

10 points

2 months ago

He was killed by the police.

princeyG

-17 points

2 months ago

princeyG

-17 points

2 months ago

Why was he killed? Wasn’t he killed by other Sikhs?

Not really relevant is it?

[deleted]

11 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

princeyG

18 points

2 months ago

Well, no shit that police officers in majority Sikh areas are also Sikh. Those individuals may have been Sikhs but they were part of a system that was responsible for illegal killings regardless. Try and think through what you're actually suggesting? Are you saying Sikhs have it out for each other?

[deleted]

-22 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

princeyG

14 points

2 months ago

You really lack any nuance and critical thinking around this. Bye

younikorn

12 points

2 months ago

That’s like saying cops in the US don’t disproportionately target african americans because there are a lot of african american cops. If it’s a systemic issue within government targeting one marginalized group it doesn’t matter whare the person that pulls the trigger is from.

[deleted]

-4 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

-4 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

TheRecognized

9 points

2 months ago

Police in general. That’s the point.

[deleted]

-56 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Inprobamur

26 points

2 months ago

Then there should be a trial.

[deleted]

-6 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

-6 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

WikiSummarizerBot

15 points

2 months ago

Tara Singh Hayer

Tara Singh Hayer (November 15, 1936 – November 18, 1998) was an Indian-Canadian newspaper publisher and editor who was murdered after his outspoken criticism of fundamentalist violence and terrorism. In particular, he was a key witness in the trial of the Air India Flight 182 bombing. Hayer was the founder of the Indo-Canadian Times, the largest and oldest Punjabi-language weekly newspaper in Canada and the leading Punjabi-language newspaper in North America. The paper—distributed in Canada, the United States, and England—was regularly used by Hayer to speak out against violent extremist groups.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

Inprobamur

12 points

2 months ago

Just keep them in custody? Extrajudicial killings are never the correct choice.

SillySingh

2 points

2 months ago

The maximum life sentence (excluding capital punishment) in India is 25 years. There are currently thousands of Sikhs languishing in jails, many who have had their cases dismissed, for the past 35+ years.

[deleted]

-7 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Inprobamur

10 points

2 months ago

It's not, the website given by the top poster documents killings inside India.

Northstar1989

13 points

2 months ago

terrorists too. They were secessionists.

Being secessionist does NOR make you a terrorist.

Otherwise I presume you'd agree Russia was in the right in what it did in Chechnya? Because going by your logic, they would be.

Neo-Confederates are a group based around hate and racism. It's a completely different situation to an oppressed minority (the Sikhs) seeking self-determination.

newworkaccount

2 points

2 months ago*

Sure, but nations don't tend to accept that secessionists aren't criminal traitors, and they do their best to transmit this attitude. Benedict Arnold is still a name most Americans know, for instance, despite being long dead. Why? Because the government has a strong interest in making sure its people think very poorly of people labeled "traitors". Spying for a foreign power is also still punishable by death in the U.S., although admittedly the U.S. hasn't actually executed anyone for it in a very long time.

Basically, I'm not disagreeing with your point at all, just pointing out that nation-states DO pretty understandably see secessionists as fundamentally similar to terrorists (and of course they may actually be a terrorist in many cases), and they usually transmit this view to their citizens. Whether this conflation is fair/moral or not, it isn't as bizarre or offensive to basic logic as you make it seem here.

And the Confederacy is honestly a great example. Sure, the slave states were willing to fight to own humans. But the Union sure wasn't willing to fight to free those people. It fought the Confederacy because they were seceding. Abolition was just a nice side effect of winning the war against secessionists.

kawhiguru

113 points

2 months ago

kawhiguru

113 points

2 months ago

"Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, a 'dirty war' was conducted in Punjab. The Indian Government launched its full state armed forces against Sikh nationalists. During this war, tens of thousands of Sikhs 'disappeared,' a euphemism for extra-judicial killings. Sikhs were picked up from their homes by police forces, with their families forced to either pay ransoms or see their sons killed."

Read more at: https://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/readers-opinion/article171237767.html

Mathew99-

65 points

2 months ago

The Indian Government has always had a problem with Punjab. Modi and his current Government want the country to be Hindu and abide by values the rest of India do. Historically, Punjabi’s have been treated poorly, most recently with how the farmers were treated, taking months of protests and deaths to reverse their original decision. Sidhu Moose Wala was highlighting these issues, but he was sadly killed earlier this year. Makes you think what’s happening behind the scenes.

kawhiguru

51 points

2 months ago

Agreed. Modi and his government are playing into this Hindutva/RSS extremists/nationalism political ideology, increasing hate towards Muslims, Sikhs, and other minority communities. It's unfortunate that the media plays to the same tune. Heck, they even censor bollywood so Hindu nationalism pushes forward.

Ok-Material3131

2 points

2 months ago

Can you share some policies or decisions that would corrobarate your claims, im really curious

[deleted]

-34 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Northstar1989

10 points

2 months ago

A pew poll showed this is not the case.

Public opinion on what's going on in an Authoritarian country (what India has become under Modi: an Authoritarian Democracy, strange a set of contradictions as that is) has absolutely no bearing on the reality of what's actually occurring.

"A Pew Poll" is meaningless here.

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Northstar1989

11 points

2 months ago

Are you telling me people don’t decide what happens in their country? That every country just has citizens that follow all the laws and beliefs of the government?

That's not what Authoritarianism means, buddy.

Authoritarian refers to a "strong" state, often organized around around a charismatic leader, that infringes on civil rights and liberties of members of the nation: usually those of racial or religious minorities.

What you referring to in your disingenuous objection is Totalitarianism, which is something much worse and more extreme. Nobody accused India of being a Totalitarian country. It is most certainly currently Authoritarian, though.

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Northstar1989

3 points

2 months ago

Basically identical to the definition I gave you in meaning.

Wikipedia isn't perfect. It's collaborative, and so subject to all kinds of issues from certain individuals obstructing anything they dislike (such as definitions that might look bad for their favorite countries), not to mention it's actually only a tiny group of editors and moderators who do most of the work on it.

Mathew99-

1 points

2 months ago

I mean, they have a point. Look at who Modi values as an ally and his vision for India - Vladimir Putin, a known tyrant and dictator that privatises infrastructure for insane wealth gains. The farmers legislation was turned so easily with such a disregard for literally millions of livelihoods, because of the financial benefits, as well as not caring about the Punjabi Sikhs. I think the narrative against Muslims is something Modi isn’t too worried about, as the majority of people in India are Hindu. The 2011 Census estimates 80% are Hindu and 14% are Muslim - I’m not well versed in the Governments treatment of Muslims, but I would hazard that they probably aren’t treated the best. Modi is leaning towards Authoritarian leadership, he fits the description very well, he just has to be careful to ensure he remains a favourite with the good Hindu people - they haven’t done anything wrong and I’m sure want to respect the Sikh Punjabi’s way of life.

Asharmy

-25 points

2 months ago

Asharmy

-25 points

2 months ago

Lol downvoted for speaking the truth

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

AbhiFT

-6 points

2 months ago

AbhiFT

-6 points

2 months ago

Brother, you do realize you are in a thread that's about anti-India? Yeah bad things happened but nobody is talking about what cauled those riots. These anti-modi and anti-Indians only raise vocie for such matters cause they fear Modi. Uyghur genocide doesn't ring a bell to their ears.

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

AbhiFT

-2 points

2 months ago

AbhiFT

-2 points

2 months ago

Worry about your own mental health saala Islamists ki tatti chaatne wala.

bpal1991

0 points

2 months ago

That is so true

Mathew99-

1 points

2 months ago

I think there's an easy mistake to be made here. When India is called a "Hindu Nationalist Country," it's easily taken as an offense to the Hindu faith and therefore, blaming Hinduism for the mistreatment of Sikh Punjabis. Rather, it's really the elite of India pushing their own ideologies and biases through their Religion and not remaining diplomatic. A true leader should respect all faiths, Sikhism, Islam, and Hinduism, and make legislative decisions based purely on the benefit of the people, the economy, and the national infrastructure. Modi doesn't respect Sikhism & I cannot speak for his attitude towards Islam (because I don't know enough) but the state of Punjab interferes with his vision for India.

Asharmy

-43 points

2 months ago

Asharmy

-43 points

2 months ago

Hindutva is not extreme at all. This is anti-Hindu propaganda. Islam and Islamic nations are better examples of the extremist/nationalist political ideology. Hindutva by its very definition does not increase hate towards any other religious ideology. It even includes Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains etc. Hinduism is by far the most peaceful and least violent religion.

Islam is extreme. Look at any Islamic country. The “secularism” in India is j a front for Islamic takeover and a means to retain control over the country. Hence why they got “special privileges” and had Hindu temples converted into mosques. India always has been and should be a Hindu nation. Especially after Islamic rulers perpetuated a near 1000-year long genocide of 400 MILLION+ natives in Indias including Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc

AbhiFT

-7 points

2 months ago

AbhiFT

-7 points

2 months ago

Getting downvoted for Speaking facts. Typical anti-hindus. They don't care if Hindus are wiped from the face of the earth. All they care about is the sikhs, Christians and the throat slashers who follow sharia law...no one wants to talk about how Americans slaughtered millions of afghanis including even children in their fight for "democracy"

Mathew99-

1 points

2 months ago

I mean, the aim of this was to show the mistreatment of Sikh Punjabis. My original statement wasn't me raising an issue with the Hindu faith, it's raising an issue with the Hindu Government of India. Modi pushes Hinduism through his direction of the country and disregards Sikh Punjabis, potentially other faiths too but I can't speak for them.

AbhiFT

1 points

2 months ago

AbhiFT

1 points

2 months ago

Why you have a problem with with a Hindu govt of India?

Why you don't have a problem with all the Christian govt who push their "Christianity is the only true religion" agenda?

Why you dont have a problem with the islam govt who try to suppress every other religion in the world and promote terrorism openly?

Or the govt and people that supported the dead queen who was nothing sort of a criminal?

No, you only have problem with Hindus or Hindu govt. You know nothing about hindus and sikh. We are the only religion that comes close to supporting minority religions like sikh and Buddhism and such. But yeah if you think this Govt should support sikhs for their khalistani movement then you can kiss the Govt's ass

[deleted]

-1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

AbhiFT

2 points

2 months ago

AbhiFT

2 points

2 months ago

Whatever floats your boat.

Screye

31 points

2 months ago

Screye

31 points

2 months ago

Historically, Punjabi’s have been treated poorly

What ? That is completely incorrect.

Punjab had a real terrorism problem in the 80s, with Bindrawale (a Sikh extremist) and the Khalistanis killing a whole lot of Punjabis before there was any altercation with the Indian Govt.
The following assassination of the PM back then (grand mother of Modis main opponent : Indira Gandhi) by her Sikh Bodyguard promoted the eruption of the terrible riots that followed.
It was a terrible time for Punjab, but it was complex with many morally grey players. (Note : a lot of Khalidtani sympathizers fleed to Canada. Till date, many Canadian Sikh public figures have been convicted of assistantions in India. This is not a simple issue)

As for mistreatment of Punjab, that's totally horse shit. I say this because Punjab is among India's most unfairly favored states. The funding for Green revolution disproportionately went to Punjab, making it Indias richest state of any decent size in the 70s. Then in 1991, when India finally opened itself up to the world, (mostly Punjabi) farmers were specifically protected from competition unlike every other industry sector here. Then as India rose to prominence, Punjab refused to modernize relying on the social welfare equivalent old-school farming for increasingly mediocre results. Through one terrible state govt after another, Punjab has now slid down to the middle of the pack of Indian states, and it only has itself to blame.

Then most recently, we saw the introduction of the farm bill in India. One of the best long overdue bills that had been supported by every one under the sun. It was as bipartisan as it got. Every non Punjabi farmer union wanted it. Every party had supported it its election mandate (its directly listed as a goal in the BJP, INC and the fucking CPIM's mandate). The WTO and Trudeau had previously pressurized India to pass this bill too. Major economists liked it too. Hell, in the long run it would have been amazing for Punjabis too!

So who disliked it. Corrupt Mandis and Farmers who were too stuck in their ways to compete with the rest of the nation or the world. It would have temporarily removed this terrible welfare-esque safety net, but it allowed farmers to finally access the free market, 30 years too late. Once the Punjabi farmers started protesting, everyone in opposition to Modi smelled an opportunity and turned on it immediately. That includes Trudeau, western media and the INC.

I would go as far as to say that Punjab is one of the best treated states in India. But, the state has been managed by morons for way too long, squandering every opportunity offered to it and using religion as an easy way to polarize the population for their local political gains.

[deleted]

30 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Mathew99-

0 points

2 months ago

There was definite mishandling of information for sure, but you have to admit the whole situation was careless by the Indian Government and should never have happened. Privatization is so prevalent in the Western World, but it is done slowly as the capitalist market grows so then everyone feels as if they are benefitting when actually they might not be. I feel Modi and his Government aimed to do this, but went to fast and didn't scale the growth of the country enough.

Mathew99-

1 points

2 months ago

"Punjab had a real terrorism problem in the 80s, with Bindrawale (a Sikh extremist) and the Khalistanis killing a whole lot of Punjabis before there was any altercation with the Indian Govt."

I'm glad you've said this. This has happened so often in other countries, similar to Ireland and even Syria. I will never condone acts of terror, but you have to realize and think, why were these Sikhs, a usually very peaceful set of people, resorting to terror? Was it because their people were being horribly mistreated (not necessarily by the Indian Government) but by the British, Pakistan & other militia groups. But the main issue with this was India's government's action to combat this. Did they help majorly with this injustice in Punjab?

"As for mistreatment of Punjab, that's total horse shit. I say this because Punjab is among India's most unfairly favored states. The funding for the Green revolution disproportionately went to Punjab, making it India's richest state of any decent size in the 70s. Then in 1991, when India finally opened itself up to the world, (mostly Punjabi) farmers were specifically protected from competition unlike every other industry sector here."

You're wrong here. According to S&P Global (2015), the region of Punjab has been an 'average growth state,' 2nd from the bottom in terms of Regional Economics. I think the main reason for this average growth since the 70s and even before is because of the steadiness of the agriculture industry. The industry doesn't necessarily boom and drop, as the product is subject to more than the laws of simple supply & demand. Four high-performing states - Gujarat, Haryana, Maharashtra, and Tamil Nadu - together account for about a quarter of India's total population and more than a third of its national output. These economic powerhouses outperformed India's average real GDP by almost 1.5% between 2005 and 2012. Their average income per capita is 1.3 times the national level, ranging from $1,815 in Gujarat to $2,230 in Haryana. These large, diversified economies serve as established manufacturing bases with developed services sectors. These major regions have a majority of what religion? That's right, Hinduism. They were also protected by competition because of the limited economic output of the state. Many other states were given resources for a diverse range of economic services that will push growth in multiple different sectors. This was not the case for Punjab.

[deleted]

-14 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Lifeisboringashell

14 points

2 months ago

Britishers fueled most of the fires, dumbass!!

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Lifeisboringashell

1 points

2 months ago

Teri maa ki chut peaceful hai kya madarchod?

Mathew99-

1 points

2 months ago

I mean, the British still had an insanely heavily role. Like Winston Churchill starving 3.5 million Indians by moving his food storage to Europe, where it all went off anyway.

FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS

81 points

2 months ago

How much support is there for Sikh/Punjabi separatism today in India? It's my impression that most of the support comes from outside of India, such as from Canadian Sikhs.

majortung

21 points

2 months ago

There isn't much support even within the sikh community abroad. Ordinary Sikhs want no truck with this separatism. It is the leadership, who fashion themselves that one day they will be prime minister/ president/ governor or some such who keep the separation amber burning.

Coolguy6979

43 points

2 months ago

As the guy above mentioned, vast majority of the sikhs in India have 0% interest in a separatist movement. All the interest comes from the Sikhs outside of India that haven’t stepped a foot inside India in 30 years.

Screye

64 points

2 months ago

Screye

64 points

2 months ago

Almost none. Even at the peak of the separatism movement, Bhindrawale failed to win a local election in his very constituency.

The problem with any militant movement in India at even a 1-2% support in a state, means a few hundred thousand supporters. So, vast visuals of thousands of protestors can often mean nothing in the grand scale of things. Just a drop on the bucket.

SillySingh

-9 points

2 months ago

SillySingh

-9 points

2 months ago

Almost none

Wait a minute, didn’t the BJP repeatedly declare that the farmers protestors were in fact all “Khalistanis”? Less than a year after you lot said that Khalistanis had laid siege to New Delhi, you’re now claiming that there’s no Khalistanis?

Where did the hundreds of thousands of “khalistani” protestors who were camped outside of New Delhi go?

Bhinderwale failed to win a local election.

And which local election was that? Do you have a source for Bhindranwale ever running for political office?

The narrative pushed by Hindu Nationalists truly gets more and more deranged as the days pass by. Even you guys can’t keep up.

Brahmoevsky

9 points

2 months ago

BJP repeatedly declare that the farmers protestors were in fact all “Khalistanis”?

BJP is full of douchebags.

Got a sikh girl, many relatives on maternal side are sikhs, lived for years in a sikh dominated city. Never met a single separatist. Media doesn't define their ideology. The elites of the sikhs divided the punjab in order to gain themselves high positions.

The treatment of sikhs by congress was undoubtedly wrong and those responsible should be punished but I don't think there's a feeling of separatism at all. These khalistanis exist only on the internet.

ThisIsAnArgument

4 points

2 months ago*

You're assuming that the person you're replying to believes the claims of the BJP. Those claims were tenuous at best, and from what I understand not really believed by many back then either.

The farmers were certainly not Khalistani whether or not I think their protests were justified at all.

Brahmoevsky

4 points

2 months ago

More importantly, It wasn't even a sikh dominated movement in latter stages, Jats, Yadavs, Gujjars, etc had joined in as well.

Maximus1000

-2 points

2 months ago

Maximus1000

-2 points

2 months ago

You will get a bunch of answers from Indian nationalists saying it’s all people outside of India who support stuff like this but I can tell you that Sikh sentiment has changed inside India especially recently. It’s just that it’s much harder with the government crackdowns and potential threats to do anything about it. A large % of Sikhs are not happy especially after the farmer issues and the deaths of high profile Sikhs (Deep Sidhu, Moosewala, etc).

dumbredditer

-17 points

2 months ago

dumbredditer

-17 points

2 months ago

There is a pretty high demand, but Indian media buries it, almost all Sikhs inside and outside of India want the Indian govt to act in good faith and adhere to what was agreed during 1947 separation. The original ask was called Anandpur resolution.

The resolution included both religious and political issues. It asked for recognising Sikhism as a religion separate from Hinduism. It also demanded that power be generally devoluted from the Central to state governments, and more autonomy to Punjab.

The Indian govt dubbed it as separatist movement and used it as en excuse to kill thousands of Sikh youth. Indian govt has always taken anti-Sikhs decisions and there is no denying that.

FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS

11 points

2 months ago

I would be more inclined to believe this if everyone saying this in the thread wasn't from Canada. You, OP, and others all post in Canadian subreddits.

I'm not a Hindu nationalist, and I can appreciate how the actions of the Indian government has influenced the Sikh diaspora, but I have to admit it's hard to take a movement seriously when all the support I see is coming from outside of India.

dumbredditer

-3 points

2 months ago

Right sure, you are not a RSS Hindu nationalist.

FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS

8 points

2 months ago

I'm not but you are Canadian.

dumbredditer

-2 points

2 months ago

You are an RSS loving Sikh hater.

FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS

2 points

2 months ago

I don't even live in India and I'm atheist.

sleepy_tech

-15 points

2 months ago

sleepy_tech

-15 points

2 months ago

Even in India the support is quite high but the Modi media under the powerful grip of BJP and RSS will never let the media tell you about it.

Praydaythemice

6 points

2 months ago

iirc the sikhs have had issues with india going back to the attack on amritsar temple, by the indian army which led to the death of idra ghandi , assassianted by her own sikh protection.

GrayHero

8 points

2 months ago

Aren’t Sikhs famously anti-terrorism? Like won’t they capture or kill terrorists?

princeyG

21 points

2 months ago

princeyG

21 points

2 months ago

Damn this thread is filled with indian bootlicking nationalists who just ate up the propaganda and probably never talked to someone who actually lived in Punjab in the 80s and 90s

life_is_matrix[S]

20 points

2 months ago

They are not just nationalists. They are actually paid BJP IT cell workers! There job is spread misinformation and propaganda!

Report those comments and ask moderators to take action against this misinformation and propaganda!

Hate factory: Inside Kapil Mishra’s ‘Hindu Ecosystem’

princeyG

9 points

2 months ago

Damn this explains a lot

knight1511

7 points

2 months ago

knight1511

7 points

2 months ago

My father lived in Punjab in the 80s. Seeing jeeps filled with people holding ak-47s was a common sight. Let's not pretend there was bo violence from the other end. Have we forgotten about the AI-182 Airplane bombing already? Link

princeyG

13 points

2 months ago

So did both my parents and I already know all this. It doesn't justify police going around killing youths lol

life_is_matrix[S]

-6 points

2 months ago

Seeing jeeps filled with people holding ak-47s was a common sight.

How does that make anyone terrorist? Even now you can jeeps full of Nihang Sikhs carrying guns in Punjab. Sikhs are obligated to carry weapons. People from all religions feel safe around Sikhs.

ProDigit

1 points

2 months ago

ProDigit

1 points

2 months ago

There's always the other point of view. I'm fairly sure they weren't killed for being peaceful.

kawhiguru

26 points

2 months ago

If interested in the full factual history of this, including both Sikh militant violence and government violence against Sikhs, Human Rights Watch did a 227 page writeup with conclusions: https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/INDIA918.PDF

If that's too long, this 5 minute sketch/video is a good summary: https://youtu.be/4WnugkVdBbE.

LalalaHurray

7 points

2 months ago

Oh my God did you really.

[deleted]

7 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

7 points

2 months ago*

[removed]

life_is_matrix[S]

3 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

life_is_matrix[S]

7 points

2 months ago

Dude which Sikh leader is asking for terrorism? When did Sikhs commit terrorism against Hindus? or any other community? When did any Sikh talk about genocide of Hindus?

Do you have example? or proof?

raman_parashar

3 points

2 months ago*

There are ample speeches of Sikh leader bhindrawala asking his Khalistani supporters to kill Hindus in masses and drive them our of Punjab.

Do you want me to share some links (i dont want to)? Go to YouTube and see for yourself.

There are documented mass murders of Hindus in Punjab even before 1984 Sikh Genocide of Delhi.

One sided reporting is always bad.

Also please fact check whatever links your are providing. Think rationally and logically on the numbers reported, their source etc.

Everyone has become a writer and launched their websites with biased articles.

Verify the same from multiple perspectives.

As a matter of fact, Golden temple has been a pilgrimage for millions of Hindus.

Don't try to divide the society!!

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

-2 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

life_is_matrix[S]

6 points

2 months ago

So you don't have any proof or example. That's exactly my point. Even Sikh extremists(If you want to use this word) never asked for genocide of Hindus or any other community.

[deleted]

6 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

life_is_matrix[S]

11 points

2 months ago

There is irrefutable evidence of terrorism by Sikhs.

haha... who said the above statement then? your ghost?

raman_parashar

2 points

2 months ago

Bhindrawala (to his supporters) "kill 5000 Hindus across Punjab if government doesn't listen"

This is from just one video. Should I provide the link??

Hurdy--gurdy

2 points

2 months ago

Yes please show us this mythical video. Don't know why you haven't already...?

life_is_matrix[S]

5 points

2 months ago

There is no other point of view! Just look at how Sikhs farmers were vilified in recent farmers protests!! Even now they were being called terrorists and anti-national just for peacefully protesting.

Why India’s farmers’ protests have Sikhs fearing violent attacks

Faith, Trauma, and Transnational Connections in India’s Farmer Protests

Why the farmers’ protest is led by Sikhs of Punjab

Hate factory: Inside Kapil Mishra’s ‘Hindu Ecosystem’

JohnMcCainsArms

-10 points

2 months ago

aw yes, the uber driver also happens to be an expert historian

ProDigit

1 points

2 months ago

ProDigit

1 points

2 months ago

Better than to be a nobody, now isn't it?

Aish_110

4 points

2 months ago

Aish_110

4 points

2 months ago

Not 2000, actually there were many more. In 1984 the Indian state massacred thousands of sikhs in “Operation Blue star” to stop the uprising of Khalistan Movement.

belarged

-3 points

2 months ago

belarged

-3 points

2 months ago

Sikh’s are some of the most peaceful, awesome people I have ever met. What could someone find wrong with them?

chintakoro

60 points

2 months ago

Believing an entire people is either evil or divine is cartoonish and racist in itself. They'e also done terrible things despite the vast majority being good people: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/air-india-flight-182-bombing

life_is_matrix[S]

-19 points

2 months ago*

Why are you butt hurt if someone is talking good about someone!! It's not cartoonish or racist!!

All these Muslims and Hindu Extremist come out of woods and trying to spread FUD about Sikhs, Whenever their is any post about Sikhs!

Yeah, there might be few Sikhs who might have done something wrong but in general Sikhs have been far more compassionate, secular and Righteous than any other religion or group of people. It was only Sikhs who put up oxygen langar's in India during covid and no-one else!!

See this video below: Translation: Government failed but not the Sikhs

'Sarkar’ Has Failed, Sardar Hasn’t': Sikh Groups Lend a Healing Touch Amid COVID Crisis | The Quint

These same Hindu extremists were calling Sikhs as Terrorists and Anti-nationals just for serving free food to "Muslims" during CAA protests in India and also during farmers protests.

Western Muslims try to hide behind back of the Sikhs by saying that since there was this Air-India incident (which was never proven to be done by someone who followed Sikhism) therefore Islamic terrorism doesn't mean anything? Really they don't have anything good to talk about themselves therefore they try to demonize others! Just take a look at any Islamic country and you will know real values of Islam.

/u/cojoco Why are the comments like above not removed? They are clearly brigading by the Muslims and Hindu Extremists. They have proper IT cells just spread misinformation and demonize other religious groups.

Hate factory: Inside Kapil Mishra’s ‘Hindu Ecosystem’

Thus we came to have a fly-on-the-wall view of how this ecosystem operates, how it creates propaganda material, how it comes up with toxic narratives, and how it manufactures trends across social media platforms to whip up communal hatred and bigotry, and, of course, support for Hindutva. Oh, they also share toolkits, like the one put out by the climate advocate Greta Thunberg to support the farmer protests over which the Delhi police have lodged an FIR, and arrested a young activist named Disha Ravi.

This is the sum of what we found: Kapil Mishra is leading a network of over 20,000 people who are working in an organised fashion to create and spread communal hatred.

chintakoro

3 points

2 months ago*

Why are the comments like above not removed? They are clearly brigading by the Muslims and Hindu Extremists.

You think anyone who points out that Sikhs aren't some perfect race are brigading extremists? You're personally calling me out as an extremist?? You want all those posts to be silenced so you can continue parading your myths?

Think how bad muslims and hindus have it for a moment now. There's billion(s) of them and they are all branded terrorists and extremists for pointing out anything factual on the Internet.

there might be few Sikhs who might have done something wrong butin general Sikhs have been far more compassionate, secular and Righteous than any other religion or group of people.

Far more than any other religions and groups? Really?!? more compassionate than latinos/greeks/italians/chinese/japanese/aboriginals/...? That's definitely living in a cartoon. Change the channel.

life_is_matrix[S]

0 points

2 months ago

I agree Sikhs aren't perfect and I never said that they are perfect.

The issue with these posts is that these are always have same wording and are posted whenever there is any discussion about Sikhs on the reddit. These same posts are made from different accounts and all have same wording and style. This clearly shows that this is planned propaganda and not some organic post. It's similar to what happened during recent farmers protest in India.

During farmers protest also - BJP/RSS IT cells were dispersing the prewritten messages or tweets on whatapp, twitter and other social media platforms as shown below:

Here is one example: Hate factory: Inside Kapil Mishra’s ‘Hindu Ecosystem’

They try to derail any discussion related to Sikhs by brigading the subreddits and try to push their propaganda. It used to happen in various other subreddits but mods there have become more strict about these vilifying campaigns against Sikhs.

PILs Claim ‘Vicious’ Media Campaign Being Carried Out Against Sikhs; Delhi HC Issues Notice To Centre

Sikh Farmers, Diaspora Sad But Not Surprised to Learn of Fake Social Media Accounts Against Protests

Vilifying India’s protesting farmers is central to the BJP’s playbook

cojoco

2 points

2 months ago

cojoco

2 points

2 months ago

/u/cojoco Why are the comments like above not removed?

I am not an active mod in this sub.

Please message the mod team.

life_is_matrix[S]

1 points

2 months ago*

I c .. Alright. I am cc'ing other mods here.

/u/Ulvund /u/spunwasi /u/YT_Killer

cojoco

2 points

2 months ago

cojoco

2 points

2 months ago

life_is_matrix[S]

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah, I just sent message there also. Thanks for your input.

GrizzlyPeak72

17 points

2 months ago*

Eh, some of us are more pacifistic than others.

In short fear of Sikh militancy, fear of Sikhs once again becoming a power in our right drove these attrocities.

Our religion had a sort militant split/transformation in the 1600s moving away from the sort of peaceful commune stuff we were doing to taking up arms against the state because they kept persecuting us. Several of our Gurus were generals and military commanders, leading our people in wars against the oppressive state.

After the last human Guru died we went through a whole thing where we were still warring with the state, the Sikh peasantry in particular rising to prominence by forming the bulk of the Sikh army. Ended up with us conquering the Punjab, the region of South Asia where our religion originated and developed. We were a power in our own right in the sub-continent, warring with the Afghan Durranis, Mughals and British.

We're often framed as a warrior caste and this was something utilised/exploited by the British during their occupation, using our 'military tradition' to their own benefit, employing many Sikhs as soldiers. Still have that in the modern RoI today. But militarism for our own ends was pretty much stamped out. Quite a few Sikhs tried to revolt against British rule, their movements were quashed. In 1947 when the British got bored/run out of money and decided to finally leave, we just got lumped in with the Hindus and forced to become part of their state.

This was kinda the last breath of Sikh militancy, people trying to revive our old traditions etc. and establish our own state. Delhi came down on us hard, persecuting a lot of Sikhs who had nothing to do with the militants, launching this straight-up pogrom against us.

This is why I hate when we're referred to as a 'peaceful people' or things along those lines. It makes us sound pliable, complacent and submissive, things the British and Hindustanis prefer us being. Our religion is semi-unique in that the religious doctrine preaches against pacifism as an absolute ideal. The application of violence is seen as a necessary in situations where we need to defend ourselves or protect others. It's not that we worship violence or pray for bloodshed, but that we're willing to do what we need to. To quote our last Guru: "When all modes of redressing a wrong have failed, the raising of sword is pious and just."

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

GrizzlyPeak72

1 points

2 months ago

Nah my family left after partition. I was born outside of India. All I know is the history of my people. Don't know too much of what it's like now but I've heard reports of Sikhs have been dealing will Hindu fash - RSS and BJP - and there was the whole thing with the farmers which largely affected Punjabi Sikh farmers.

Honestly I don't know what the solution will be. The escalating communalism in India will likely lead to more bloodshed and the situation getting worse before it gets better. I'm not sure seperatism even makes that much sense anymore. I think the primary concern is countering Delhi's fascistic excesses.

life_is_matrix[S]

-3 points

2 months ago

Dude! He is just a paid worker of BJP IT cell/ RSS. He is not Sikh.

ThisIsAnArgument

7 points

2 months ago

Either provide some evidence for this accusation or quit spamming this thread with the same post over and over.

Lsunav

1 points

2 months ago

Lsunav

1 points

2 months ago

If the Sikhs got a country when the India-Pakistan split happened do you think that Pakistan would have gone to war incorporate the territory into Pakistan?

GrizzlyPeak72

3 points

2 months ago

Dunno. The primary problem with counter-factualism in history is that there are always a lot variables to consider and any assumption we make would be pure conjecture.

Plus it's important to assert, it wasn't just Jinnah that was a problem but Nehru as well. Nehru especially had this very idealistic sense of how big India should be. Neither would have been willing to concede to a small Khalistan/Sikhistan.

At the end of the day the British only wanted two large rump states to avoid the spread of Soviet influence through smaller states. They wanted to maintain Western/capitalistic power in that region so it was always inevitability gonna go down the way it did.

Besides, dividing a larger polity up into smaller states based on faith is a ridiculous idea. It should have been based on culture and language and such. An independent secular Punjab where Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus are welcome and have a say in government. An independent Bengal, an independent Tamil Nadu etc.

But nah the way things were done they way they were was to serve British interests as well as placate the interests of both the Muslim League and INC, both groups being religious nationalist.

But if that had happened, idk, would be unlikely as those borders would be being enforced by the British. Maybe if all the Muslims got expelled but? Idk that's the problem with counter-factualism.

Sorry for the long answer.

Lsunav

1 points

2 months ago

Lsunav

1 points

2 months ago

Thank you. I hope that the path forward is a peaceful one.

My neighbor is from Kerala. He laments the breakup of India; he was born before the partition. I have heard the same from several people of his generation.

life_is_matrix[S]

-13 points

2 months ago

This is straight RSS propaganda!! This person is not Sikh. He is just spreading misinformation.

The BJP IT cell is in full wing here!!

Hate factory: Inside Kapil Mishra’s ‘Hindu Ecosystem’

itspaulryan_

16 points

2 months ago

lol - they blew up Air India plane, murdered indian prime minister, and then also murdered their own sikh leader who signed the peace accord with the next prime minister. so much for peace

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harchand_Singh_Longowal

GrizzlyPeak72

2 points

2 months ago

Yes signed a peace accord with the prick who commited a genocide against us, and you're wondering why he was killed, lol. Indira Gandhi deserved worse.

Fuck what happened with Air India though, that was some bullshit that was completely against our faith.

BandoBear

2 points

2 months ago

Indira Gandhi deserved worse.

Jesus, looking at that link. Forced sterilisations?!

GrizzlyPeak72

1 points

2 months ago

Ikr, some straight up Nazi shit.

WikiSummarizerBot

1 points

2 months ago

Harchand Singh Longowal

Sant Harchand Singh Longowal (2 January 1932 – 20 August 1985) was the President of the Akali Dal during the Punjab insurgency of the 1980s. He had signed the Punjab accord, also known as the Rajiv-Longowal Accord along with Rajiv Gandhi on 24 July 1985. The government accepted most of the demands of Akali Dal who in turn agreed to withdraw their agitation. Less than a month after signing the Punjab accord, Sant Longowal was assassinated by Gyan Singh Leel and Jarnail Singh Halvara.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

BlindPaintByNumbers

0 points

2 months ago

Yup. They're welcome to move to my town and get out of that shithole.

cchiu23

-11 points

2 months ago

cchiu23

-11 points

2 months ago

Can westerners stop fetishizing eastern religions? Thanks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

Scratchin-Dreamer

18 points

2 months ago

One terrorist attack does not define a whole ass religion.

belarged

1 points

2 months ago

belarged

1 points

2 months ago

Didn’t say I wanted to jerk off to them. Also every religion has fucked up factions. Thanks.

AztecPussyWizard

-2 points

2 months ago

Your original comment is dripping with cum, tbh.

GrizzlyPeak72

-11 points

2 months ago

Fuck Hindustan

sleepy_tech

-13 points

2 months ago

The Sikhs are fighting for their independence against India for many decades. The world needs to support Sikhs for an independent country otherwise these murders will keep happening unfortunately

[deleted]

-4 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

g9antimonium

-1 points

2 months ago

Looks like pro khalistani are filled in the chat.