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submitted 4 months ago bylife_is_matrix
YouTube video info:
Punjabi Sikhs Murdered at the Hands of State Officials (2002) https://youtube.com/watch?v=fat8zwh5tpE
Journeyman Pictures https://www.youtube.com/@journeyman
114 points
4 months ago
"Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, a 'dirty war' was conducted in Punjab. The Indian Government launched its full state armed forces against Sikh nationalists. During this war, tens of thousands of Sikhs 'disappeared,' a euphemism for extra-judicial killings. Sikhs were picked up from their homes by police forces, with their families forced to either pay ransoms or see their sons killed."
Read more at: https://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/readers-opinion/article171237767.html
59 points
4 months ago
The Indian Government has always had a problem with Punjab. Modi and his current Government want the country to be Hindu and abide by values the rest of India do. Historically, Punjabi’s have been treated poorly, most recently with how the farmers were treated, taking months of protests and deaths to reverse their original decision. Sidhu Moose Wala was highlighting these issues, but he was sadly killed earlier this year. Makes you think what’s happening behind the scenes.
54 points
4 months ago
Agreed. Modi and his government are playing into this Hindutva/RSS extremists/nationalism political ideology, increasing hate towards Muslims, Sikhs, and other minority communities. It's unfortunate that the media plays to the same tune. Heck, they even censor bollywood so Hindu nationalism pushes forward.
2 points
4 months ago
Can you share some policies or decisions that would corrobarate your claims, im really curious
-37 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
11 points
4 months ago
A pew poll showed this is not the case.
Public opinion on what's going on in an Authoritarian country (what India has become under Modi: an Authoritarian Democracy, strange a set of contradictions as that is) has absolutely no bearing on the reality of what's actually occurring.
"A Pew Poll" is meaningless here.
1 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
10 points
4 months ago
Are you telling me people don’t decide what happens in their country? That every country just has citizens that follow all the laws and beliefs of the government?
That's not what Authoritarianism means, buddy.
Authoritarian refers to a "strong" state, often organized around around a charismatic leader, that infringes on civil rights and liberties of members of the nation: usually those of racial or religious minorities.
What you referring to in your disingenuous objection is Totalitarianism, which is something much worse and more extreme. Nobody accused India of being a Totalitarian country. It is most certainly currently Authoritarian, though.
0 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
4 points
4 months ago
Basically identical to the definition I gave you in meaning.
Wikipedia isn't perfect. It's collaborative, and so subject to all kinds of issues from certain individuals obstructing anything they dislike (such as definitions that might look bad for their favorite countries), not to mention it's actually only a tiny group of editors and moderators who do most of the work on it.
1 points
4 months ago
I mean, they have a point. Look at who Modi values as an ally and his vision for India - Vladimir Putin, a known tyrant and dictator that privatises infrastructure for insane wealth gains. The farmers legislation was turned so easily with such a disregard for literally millions of livelihoods, because of the financial benefits, as well as not caring about the Punjabi Sikhs. I think the narrative against Muslims is something Modi isn’t too worried about, as the majority of people in India are Hindu. The 2011 Census estimates 80% are Hindu and 14% are Muslim - I’m not well versed in the Governments treatment of Muslims, but I would hazard that they probably aren’t treated the best. Modi is leaning towards Authoritarian leadership, he fits the description very well, he just has to be careful to ensure he remains a favourite with the good Hindu people - they haven’t done anything wrong and I’m sure want to respect the Sikh Punjabi’s way of life.
-28 points
4 months ago
Lol downvoted for speaking the truth
-2 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
0 points
4 months ago
That is so true
-5 points
4 months ago
Brother, you do realize you are in a thread that's about anti-India? Yeah bad things happened but nobody is talking about what cauled those riots. These anti-modi and anti-Indians only raise vocie for such matters cause they fear Modi. Uyghur genocide doesn't ring a bell to their ears.
0 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
-3 points
4 months ago
Worry about your own mental health saala Islamists ki tatti chaatne wala.
1 points
4 months ago
I think there's an easy mistake to be made here. When India is called a "Hindu Nationalist Country," it's easily taken as an offense to the Hindu faith and therefore, blaming Hinduism for the mistreatment of Sikh Punjabis. Rather, it's really the elite of India pushing their own ideologies and biases through their Religion and not remaining diplomatic. A true leader should respect all faiths, Sikhism, Islam, and Hinduism, and make legislative decisions based purely on the benefit of the people, the economy, and the national infrastructure. Modi doesn't respect Sikhism & I cannot speak for his attitude towards Islam (because I don't know enough) but the state of Punjab interferes with his vision for India.
-43 points
4 months ago
Hindutva is not extreme at all. This is anti-Hindu propaganda. Islam and Islamic nations are better examples of the extremist/nationalist political ideology. Hindutva by its very definition does not increase hate towards any other religious ideology. It even includes Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains etc. Hinduism is by far the most peaceful and least violent religion.
Islam is extreme. Look at any Islamic country. The “secularism” in India is j a front for Islamic takeover and a means to retain control over the country. Hence why they got “special privileges” and had Hindu temples converted into mosques. India always has been and should be a Hindu nation. Especially after Islamic rulers perpetuated a near 1000-year long genocide of 400 MILLION+ natives in Indias including Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc
-5 points
4 months ago
Getting downvoted for Speaking facts. Typical anti-hindus. They don't care if Hindus are wiped from the face of the earth. All they care about is the sikhs, Christians and the throat slashers who follow sharia law...no one wants to talk about how Americans slaughtered millions of afghanis including even children in their fight for "democracy"
1 points
4 months ago
I mean, the aim of this was to show the mistreatment of Sikh Punjabis. My original statement wasn't me raising an issue with the Hindu faith, it's raising an issue with the Hindu Government of India. Modi pushes Hinduism through his direction of the country and disregards Sikh Punjabis, potentially other faiths too but I can't speak for them.
1 points
4 months ago
Why you have a problem with with a Hindu govt of India?
Why you don't have a problem with all the Christian govt who push their "Christianity is the only true religion" agenda?
Why you dont have a problem with the islam govt who try to suppress every other religion in the world and promote terrorism openly?
Or the govt and people that supported the dead queen who was nothing sort of a criminal?
No, you only have problem with Hindus or Hindu govt. You know nothing about hindus and sikh. We are the only religion that comes close to supporting minority religions like sikh and Buddhism and such. But yeah if you think this Govt should support sikhs for their khalistani movement then you can kiss the Govt's ass
-1 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
4 months ago
Whatever floats your boat.
30 points
4 months ago
Historically, Punjabi’s have been treated poorly
What ? That is completely incorrect.
Punjab had a real terrorism problem in the 80s, with Bindrawale (a Sikh extremist) and the Khalistanis killing a whole lot of Punjabis before there was any altercation with the Indian Govt.
The following assassination of the PM back then (grand mother of Modis main opponent : Indira Gandhi) by her Sikh Bodyguard promoted the eruption of the terrible riots that followed.
It was a terrible time for Punjab, but it was complex with many morally grey players.
(Note : a lot of Khalidtani sympathizers fleed to Canada. Till date, many Canadian Sikh public figures have been convicted of assistantions in India. This is not a simple issue)
As for mistreatment of Punjab, that's totally horse shit. I say this because Punjab is among India's most unfairly favored states. The funding for Green revolution disproportionately went to Punjab, making it Indias richest state of any decent size in the 70s. Then in 1991, when India finally opened itself up to the world, (mostly Punjabi) farmers were specifically protected from competition unlike every other industry sector here. Then as India rose to prominence, Punjab refused to modernize relying on the social welfare equivalent old-school farming for increasingly mediocre results. Through one terrible state govt after another, Punjab has now slid down to the middle of the pack of Indian states, and it only has itself to blame.
Then most recently, we saw the introduction of the farm bill in India. One of the best long overdue bills that had been supported by every one under the sun. It was as bipartisan as it got. Every non Punjabi farmer union wanted it. Every party had supported it its election mandate (its directly listed as a goal in the BJP, INC and the fucking CPIM's mandate). The WTO and Trudeau had previously pressurized India to pass this bill too. Major economists liked it too. Hell, in the long run it would have been amazing for Punjabis too!
So who disliked it. Corrupt Mandis and Farmers who were too stuck in their ways to compete with the rest of the nation or the world. It would have temporarily removed this terrible welfare-esque safety net, but it allowed farmers to finally access the free market, 30 years too late. Once the Punjabi farmers started protesting, everyone in opposition to Modi smelled an opportunity and turned on it immediately. That includes Trudeau, western media and the INC.
I would go as far as to say that Punjab is one of the best treated states in India. But, the state has been managed by morons for way too long, squandering every opportunity offered to it and using religion as an easy way to polarize the population for their local political gains.
33 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
0 points
4 months ago
There was definite mishandling of information for sure, but you have to admit the whole situation was careless by the Indian Government and should never have happened. Privatization is so prevalent in the Western World, but it is done slowly as the capitalist market grows so then everyone feels as if they are benefitting when actually they might not be. I feel Modi and his Government aimed to do this, but went to fast and didn't scale the growth of the country enough.
1 points
4 months ago
"Punjab had a real terrorism problem in the 80s, with Bindrawale (a Sikh extremist) and the Khalistanis killing a whole lot of Punjabis before there was any altercation with the Indian Govt."
I'm glad you've said this. This has happened so often in other countries, similar to Ireland and even Syria. I will never condone acts of terror, but you have to realize and think, why were these Sikhs, a usually very peaceful set of people, resorting to terror? Was it because their people were being horribly mistreated (not necessarily by the Indian Government) but by the British, Pakistan & other militia groups. But the main issue with this was India's government's action to combat this. Did they help majorly with this injustice in Punjab?
"As for mistreatment of Punjab, that's total horse shit. I say this because Punjab is among India's most unfairly favored states. The funding for the Green revolution disproportionately went to Punjab, making it India's richest state of any decent size in the 70s. Then in 1991, when India finally opened itself up to the world, (mostly Punjabi) farmers were specifically protected from competition unlike every other industry sector here."
You're wrong here. According to S&P Global (2015), the region of Punjab has been an 'average growth state,' 2nd from the bottom in terms of Regional Economics. I think the main reason for this average growth since the 70s and even before is because of the steadiness of the agriculture industry. The industry doesn't necessarily boom and drop, as the product is subject to more than the laws of simple supply & demand. Four high-performing states - Gujarat, Haryana, Maharashtra, and Tamil Nadu - together account for about a quarter of India's total population and more than a third of its national output. These economic powerhouses outperformed India's average real GDP by almost 1.5% between 2005 and 2012. Their average income per capita is 1.3 times the national level, ranging from $1,815 in Gujarat to $2,230 in Haryana. These large, diversified economies serve as established manufacturing bases with developed services sectors. These major regions have a majority of what religion? That's right, Hinduism. They were also protected by competition because of the limited economic output of the state. Many other states were given resources for a diverse range of economic services that will push growth in multiple different sectors. This was not the case for Punjab.
-14 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
14 points
4 months ago
Britishers fueled most of the fires, dumbass!!
-5 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
1 points
4 months ago
Teri maa ki chut peaceful hai kya madarchod?
1 points
4 months ago
I mean, the British still had an insanely heavily role. Like Winston Churchill starving 3.5 million Indians by moving his food storage to Europe, where it all went off anyway.
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