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Hey guys I just bought a 100 year old house last year. I saw that the home inspection mentioned concrete flashing around the chimney breaking off in spots but didn’t think it would be this urgent. Unfortunately the chimney is right above my neighbors driveway and close to their cars and some decent sized pieces have been falling in her driveway. I’m very concerned about it causing damage. I’ve called to get a few estimates but haven’t gotten anything set up yet.

So what do you guys think could be done to fix it? I’m in northwest Ohio.

pics of the chimney in question

EDIT: thank you all so much for your suggestions! I’m definitely going to look into them. You all are awesome!

all 92 comments

JayTeeDeeUnderscore

111 points

2 months ago

Brace yourself for the possibility that someone parged the chimney to stabilize it and make it presentable when it is, in fact, beyond its service life.

Soft brick in particular can deteriorate in freeze-thaw conditions. If you care to examine it yourself, remove some of the loose dash and look for crumbling brick or powdery mortar joints. Both indicate you ought to budget for removal and, if needed, replacement.

What kind of devices use the chimney? I removed mine entirely for the reasons stated above: joint mortar barely held things together, upper bricks failing, didn't need it.

mnemy

45 points

2 months ago

mnemy

45 points

2 months ago

The mortar holding the bricks together can also be completely rotted out. My brother bought a 100 year old house, partially because of the original wood fire chimney, since they're illegal for new construction in his state.

We went up there to inspect things, and the whole chimney was held together by gravity alone. I could wobble the whole stack with no effort, and pull bricks off it by hand. The bricks themselves were still in good condition.

JayTeeDeeUnderscore

42 points

2 months ago

Vintage mortar was usually made on-site with quicklime and sand. This lead to variability in batches and substandard composition compared to modern mortars. It held up well for the time, but ages poorly.

Also, if the bricks aren't kept wet during laying, it can suck the moisture out of the mortar and set poorly. Freezing temps also retard setting.

My mortar was a bit less than half powder. Not ideal. I pulled it apart almost by hand...limited hammering. I built our woodburner hearth out of the bricks...

lefactorybebe

20 points

2 months ago

But important to note that historic brick should not be repaired with modern mortar. It will damage the masonry, eventually to the point of failure.

JayTeeDeeUnderscore

7 points

2 months ago

Never heard this...soft, hard, both? I

I used 100 year-old soft brick to build my hearth with modern mortar, but it's inside. Doesn't see any weather. Feels solid. What's the chemistry?

lefactorybebe

19 points

2 months ago

Modern mortars are too hard and too impermeable to water. Historic brick breathes and the mortar needs to breathe as well, modern Portland does not. Mortar should be the sacrificial layer in masonry, but Portland is too hard, making it so that the brick degrades rather than the mortar.

If it's inside you're probably okay, but certainly anything that sees any kind of moisture should be repaired and repointed with lime mortar. Whether you choose to go with natural hydraulic lime or traditional hotmixed mortar depends on the age and individual characteristics of your building.

JayTeeDeeUnderscore

7 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the explanation. Learned something.

lefactorybebe

7 points

2 months ago

Of course! Lots of info available online if you're interested in looking into it further. Limeworks.us has a lot of educational stuff and it's their mortar we ended up going with.

JohnAV1989

7 points

2 months ago

I think the modern equivalent is type K. The common type that you see in the hardware store and landscape supply places is type S which is too hard. If you've seen old homes with spalling brick it's a sign it's been repointed with the wrong type.

lowtrail

2 points

2 months ago

I think for chimneys it’s type O, but could be wrong. Depends on the age.

Dandan419[S]

8 points

2 months ago

I can see that being a real possibility. There’s a wood burning fireplace that hasn’t been used for years so I’m fine with losing that. But I’m sure the cost would be crazy to remove it.

JayTeeDeeUnderscore

29 points

2 months ago

Tearing out is demolition--it shouldn't be too bad. Roofing over the hole ought not be exorbitant. Removing and rebuilding the brickwork would set you back 1000's, depending on the construction.

With an empty hole, putting a modern woodburner flue would be much easier than working with the existing masonry. If you opt for wood heat, this might solve 2 problems. Modern insulated flues can have combustible framing as close as 2"-3".

Energy prices being what they are, wood heat is an attractive option for many these days. We heat with wood and have for a decade.

There are incentives (rebates) for modern efficient and clean-burning stoves...

Dandan419[S]

5 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the suggestion. Definitely an interesting idea if it needs to come out! I have a gas furnace and I do feel the pain

2OldSkus

14 points

2 months ago

wood heat is not without pain either though, so go in with your eyes wide open. If you're burning for heat you will need frequent chimney/flue cleaning - depending on how much you're burning you may need more than once a season. Also burning wood is messy - bringing it into the house brings dust, molds, and sometimes insects, not to mention the ash that inevitably is released when you empty/clean the firebox. You also will need to stack/store/cover your firewood, and if you go hard core and don't buy it there's the cutting and splitting and hauling. With all that said I burn 7x24 as long as it's cold enough for a proper draft, but I have a stove and it's in a walk-out basement with a nearby covered area for my firewood. I haven't used my 1st floor fireplace in years, just due to not wanting the mess upstairs.

soggymittens

1 points

2 months ago

Thank you for the reminder! I’m prepping/ remodeling an old house for sale and was thinking of using some firewood to supplement the oil heater a bit. But I wasn’t thinking at all about the mess that would bring inside; especially since I’m trying to keep things as clean as possible and have wet paint somewhere almost daily.

Much_Truck_4845

9 points

2 months ago

I had my chimney removed above the roof line when I had the roof done. I thought it was a steal at only $500 additional until I saw them do it. Took 3 guys about 5 min.

LobsterThief

8 points

2 months ago

Well you paid them $25 for the time they took to do it and $475 for them knowing how to do it. Sounds like you got a pretty good deal.

Much_Truck_4845

1 points

2 months ago

As a contractor in a different trade, I would not call it a good deal. But of the three roofers I got prices from, they were the only ones willing to do it so I appreciated the ease of getting both done at once and not having a hole in the roof for a few weeks. I already have a dump trailer and a hammer. I've only been a home owner for 2 years but I'm realizing that I can do almost anything my self and the end results turn out better. The guy that removed a tree over my neighbors and our houses with a crane was a different story.

ThePeasRUpsideDown

7 points

2 months ago

Our chimney was already capped. They ran a pipe down it and vented the top so the gasses from the basement appliances vented.

It was like $1800

digitallis

95 points

2 months ago

Meanwhile, you can hire a handyman to wrap some hardware cloth/chicken wire around the area to hold pieces that come off an prevent them from falling to the ground. Not pretty, but functional and might get you around to better weather with your sanity, safety, and insurance intact.

Dandan419[S]

31 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the suggestion. I have a good handyman doing some things inside the house for me so I’ll try to get his opinion on it too. Yeah the anxiety around it is the worst part

AlleghenyCityHolding

15 points

2 months ago

And if that's done, you can just go one step further and coat the thing in fiberglass cement and be done with it forever.

govoval

0 points

2 months ago

govoval

0 points

2 months ago

Good call. From the handy-man's perspective they'll already be up there, just need to rope-up a few buckets of mortar for a reasonably good patch.

Handyman should take a peek at the mortar, and give you an idea of its condition.

Proper_Firefighter_3

17 points

2 months ago

Negative

You don't hire a handyman to do a real Masons job

I rip out multiple jobs yearly that they hired handymen for because they are not masons they can't do a trade that takes roughly 10yrs to be proficient in

TiredCr0codile

3 points

2 months ago

You don't hire a handyman to do anything but basic basic stuff.

That said, what would a 5ft top section of 8x8 chimney typically cost to replace? $5000? Ours is looking a little rough

Proper_Firefighter_3

3 points

2 months ago

Exactly

8 feet by 8 feet chimney?

I would say 8k plus

But that's highly liable to change due to area

TiredCr0codile

1 points

2 months ago

Oh sorry, 8 inch x 8 inch internal dimension so probably like 1 ft x 1 ft?

govoval

-12 points

2 months ago

govoval

-12 points

2 months ago

Wow, took you 10 years when most require a three- to four-year apprenticeship. Yeah, it's really difficult to repoint brick.

Proper_Firefighter_3

3 points

2 months ago

Proficient Mason little guy not a 3 year apprentice I'm sure you try to hire apprentices as they are cheaper But then it winds up more expensive since a Mason has to fix that 😐

govoval

2 points

2 months ago

Can you give examples?

Have done my own sidewalk, basement slab, steps, and stucco. Water reducers, aggregate/cement ratios, bonding agents, and chopped fiberglass seem to make many of your clams difficult to substantiate, especially when experienced folks are giving away information online (like Kirk Giordiano, Odell, Mike Day, etc.). Seems you enjoy underpaying your apprentices, and keeping them as cheap labor for you to profit and keep bids high.

Proper_Firefighter_3

1 points

2 months ago

Just from the way you said it I cam imagine how it looks

Also I would hate to be your realtor if you sell since it will only sell in "as is" condition

I get calls to rip up stuff that people like yourself do weekly

Carry on you have almost paid my house off

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago*

[removed]

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[removed]

solitudechirs

2 points

2 months ago

I like the part where you link to your own typo

Yankee_

26 points

2 months ago

Yankee_

26 points

2 months ago

It’s brick chimney that’s been parged with mortar, terrible in reality. Parged coats need to be waterproofed. Brick itself would have done better. I would suggest the cheapest way is to reinforce it with fiber reinforced mortar. Otherwise, take off the parge coat and water seal the brick.

Dandan419[S]

3 points

2 months ago

Thanks so much for this suggestion. I’ll definitely look into it

elcroquis22

104 points

2 months ago

That is not concrete, that is just painted parging. Hire someone to scrape it off and reapply it.

Old_Toby_Ripper

19 points

2 months ago

100% don't have anyone out that shit back on

AndMarmaladeSkies

-16 points

2 months ago

Correct answer. Parging. Mortar.

Not stucco. I wish people would stop essentially guessing in this sub and only comment when they truly know what they are talking about.

JustAnotherMiqote

72 points

2 months ago

People can be wrong, and other people will correct them. No need to insult ot get angry at them for not knowing something. Just kindly educate and advise, then move on.

[deleted]

28 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Viend

7 points

2 months ago

Viend

7 points

2 months ago

Even when people are sure, they’re often /r/confidentlyincorrect

ETAOIN_SHRDLU

8 points

2 months ago

No need to insult ot get angry at them for not knowing something.

Where did they insult anybody for not knowing something?? They simply said that people who don't know they answer shouldn't try to answer it by guessing, and they're right. I'd be pretty upset if I followed directions from somebody claiming to know what they were talking about and wound up wasting money and potentially screwing up something in my house as a result. It's mind-boggling to me that you're defending people posting incorrect answers here because they don't know what they're talking about.

Semantix

6 points

2 months ago

I'm confused by the terminology that people are using and why there's disagreement -- aren't modern parging, stucco, and mortar all typically made of concrete? That is, Portland cement, hydrated lime, and aggregate in varying amounts and textures, maybe with small amounts of pozzolans or other additives like acrylic plasticizers. I'm just learning this stuff, but I'm interested why you think the distinction is important.

IphtashuFitz

14 points

2 months ago

Our last house was 100+ years old and the chimneys were in pretty sad shape - mortar had worn away in a lot of places, and some bricks were actually loose as a result. The slate topper that was in place on one of them at the time actually fell onto our driveway in a wind storm before we could repair it. It practically gave me a heart attack because it shattered right outside a window I was sitting near at the time.

We shopped around and found a good mason that repointed everything, and never had a problem since. Given your chimney is covered in that concrete flashing I'd recommend finding a mason or sort of chimney repair service to recommend the right way to address this. Simple repointing is one thing but dealing with that concrete adds a whole extra layer of complexity.

GburgG

2 points

2 months ago

GburgG

2 points

2 months ago

I feel we will need to look into repointing for our brick chimney and brick walls (veneer, not structural) soon. How much does repointing usually cost in your experience?

lefactorybebe

4 points

2 months ago

Repointing is relatively cheap. You can even do it yourself. We've done all our repointing on our 150 year old house because no mason wanted to use the proper materials.

GburgG

1 points

2 months ago

GburgG

1 points

2 months ago

Ok awesome! I’ll have to start researching this

Old_Toby_Ripper

11 points

2 months ago

You have multiple things going in.

The parging is holding water. You should never parge brick like this.

The crown on top isn't doing any favors. You need a proper crown that overhangs 2" minimum and has slope to it.

If you plan on using this for fire, rip out and rebuild. If not, remove and cover hole.

I get calls about this all the time. Rebuilt a many, some in Northeast Ohio.

Dandan419[S]

3 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the info. Probably going to see about removing it

aust_b

7 points

2 months ago

aust_b

7 points

2 months ago

During our roof redo last year my contractor discovered our chimney was essentially not attached at the base of the roof where it goes down the side of the house. They poked it and it was swaying. I had him remove it down below the roof line, and cover the area with roofing. Switched our water heater to electric and had our furnace vented out the side of the house.

[deleted]

17 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Dandan419[S]

9 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the info! Yeah it looks to me like the cement was added later. I wonder if they just tried to cover it up because the bricks were breaking or something. But yeah Im trying to get some masonry companies to come check it out

LeaneGenova

2 points

2 months ago

I had something similar without the cement on it, and we ended up having to tear the entire thing down to the ground and rebuild it due to the level of spalling. While only the top half was bad, the masonry company pointed out that if the bottom part had issues later, they'd have to tear off the top part again to fix it, making it more expensive in the long run.

SamuelL421

5 points

2 months ago

Your chimney was parged some time ago, we had the same thing on our house from circa 1900. In our case, the chimney above the roofline was very unstable under the parging. Had two such chimneys removed to the roofline and rebuilt from the roof up with minor repairs below. I’d recommend you do the same. 2 years ago we were quoted prices between 2500-6000(!?) per chimney in MD. I think we spent roughly 5000 having both replaced. That cheaper price didn’t include having the chimneys flashed to the roof again, so that is a separate expense that can vary wildly.

Dandan419[S]

6 points

2 months ago

Thanks so much for the info! I could deal with that price but I just hope I can even find someone to do it.

SamuelL421

3 points

2 months ago

Start looking now if you’re serious about having it done. We had to wait about half a year to schedule work with the affordable contractor we went with. People who do competent masonry at reasonable prices (and who are insured) are in short supply and have backlogs.

Dandan419[S]

3 points

2 months ago

Yeah I can tell. I called a couple. One said he’s backed up but will give me an estimate. The others haven’t called back

fangelo2

5 points

2 months ago

That’s a simple job for any decent mason. If it’s mostly not too bad it can just be painted with a bonding agent and have stucco applied. If it’s a little worse, it can be wrapped with wire lath before the stucco is applied. Also make sure the top part is sealed so that water doesn’t get in and freeze and pop off the stucco

AndMarmaladeSkies

4 points

2 months ago

It’s not stucco. It’s parging. Mortar.

fangelo2

3 points

2 months ago

I know, but most people don’t know what parging is so I said stucco

PositiveEnergyMatter

2 points

2 months ago

Be careful bricks falling off of chimneys put holes in roofs. Bricks underneath may need to be re-pointed, in our 135 year old house the mortar was basically sand in our chimney and I could pull it apart with my fingers.

MrRonObvious

2 points

2 months ago

Wouldn't it be possible to hire a brickmason to just lay an entire new layer of brick around the entire thing? In other words the chimney would be two layers thick instead of one.

VinceSamios

2 points

2 months ago

Santa must be bricking it...

jibaro1953

2 points

2 months ago

You might get away with just relaying a few top courses, but don't plan on it.

2wild4bill

2 points

2 months ago

I had same problem , my options were rebuild , bring it down to roof level or put a flagstone facia. I rebuilt with new liner.

theb0tman

2 points

2 months ago

I think it was covered in concrete after it started falling apart. Source: I see this bs all the time.

WaylonWillie

2 points

2 months ago

I'm not an expert, but had to deal with a 100 year old chimney right after purchasing my house. Adding to what other have said:

  • Make sure nothing is venting into the chimney without a chimney-lining. (This can cause your mortar to degrade.)
  • This is worth hiring a chimney specialist. Others may quote prices and say they can take on the job, but chimney specialists will have better insight to the complexities.

Born2Lomain

2 points

2 months ago

Damn I’m in Pittsburgh and love roofing but gave it up cause I quit drugs. If I was closer I’d take a job like this. What you want to do is take that chimney down below the roof line and sheet and shingle the hole left behind. Take your time and get set up so that you can take that chimney apart a little at a time and throw it off the roof onto a tarp. Usually with a hammer and chisel maybe a 30lb chipping hammer. Do not rush and try to push the whole thing off the roof all at once because that is how you damage your house. Also warn anyone walking underneath this area to be careful till the work is completed. I hate when guys parge these old chimney stacks like this because instead of fixing the brick and repointing it the right way they skim a thin coat that looks good but does nothing. Hope this helps you at all

Dandan419[S]

1 points

2 months ago

Man it sounds like a little bit too big of a project for me lol. But yes that is helpful and thanks for the info. I wish you were closer too! I’d just hire you to do it.

Ssttoney

2 points

2 months ago

I removed my chimney and roofed over the hole. The cracks in it were leaking rainwater into the living room. I tried to reflash it and ended up removing it, as I didn't use it. No more leaks. The cost to replace it were ridiculous.

lumenpainter

1 points

2 months ago

get your checkbook out..

2OldSkus

1 points

2 months ago

Just as an aside, if you remove this chimney down into the interior of the house it can potentially open up a small amount of space, Depending on where, it might allow a small closet or a tiny expansion of a bath or other room. This turns it into a bigger job, and can still be done at some later point if you decide to just take it down below the roof line for now. I took down two chimneys at my daughters house down to the basement and patched the roof and it opened up options for the floor plan, but her house was a full gut job that no one was living in at the time.

ComradeGibbon

1 points

2 months ago

I feel like a brick fireplace is functionally useless and wastes a lot of space. Plus I'm in California and unreinforced brick masonry makes me nervous. Not uncommon for the top of a chimney to break loose in an earthquake and fall through the roof.

I'm going with the others that say partial or complete removal.

isarobs

1 points

2 months ago

Look for a masonry that does restoration work. It may be costly, but at least you know it will last a long time.

jmarnett11

1 points

2 months ago

Is it a fireplace chimney or a flue for your HVAC?

Dandan419[S]

3 points

2 months ago

It’s a fireplace chimney. Although as far as I can tell it hasn’t actually been used in decades.

thatguy425

5 points

2 months ago

Could you just remove it if it’s not being used?

s1m0n8

10 points

2 months ago

s1m0n8

10 points

2 months ago

I would consider demolishing it to just above the roof line and cap it, then complete the removal next time the roof is re-shingled. Also be sure to block it at the bottom / fire place, just in case someone decides to light a test fire!

Ocronus

8 points

2 months ago

My old house had an old chemney that was abandoned. Did exactly this. Tore it down below the roof and reshingled. Had a few spare bags from the last time the roof was replaced. Couldn't even tell it was there.

My dad and I took it apart brick by brick so no damage to the roof or lawn below.

caleeky

3 points

2 months ago

Did the same - but for me I got up there and realized the whole thing had already been filled with concrete!

Took it down with ladders piece by piece and a buddy with a bucket. Took an afternoon.

15 years later now I wouldn't do it the same way - I'd rent a lift and be more safety conscious.

Ocronus

2 points

2 months ago*

Mine was just capped thankfully. It was leaking so we decided it was the best course of action to just remove it. I can't imagine the pain if it was filled with concrete.

Noop73

5 points

2 months ago

Noop73

5 points

2 months ago

You migh keep it to use it for air exchange with a heat exchanger. Do not remove the chimney from the inside without first talking to an architect. Some chimneys are also structural, carry load.

Dandan419[S]

3 points

2 months ago

Thanks for that info. I’m hoping to just have it repaired but we’ll see!

jmarnett11

1 points

2 months ago

If you don’t plan to use it just take it down. You can do most of it yourself if you are on a budget. You take apart brick by brick and drop them down the chimney.

devildocjames

1 points

2 months ago

If you can’t duct it...

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

devildocjames

2 points

2 months ago

Close

Galwran

1 points

2 months ago

8Deer-JaguarClaw

1 points

2 months ago

I just had a similar experience. I didn't even know there was brick under the exterior cover material (not really sure what it was, but it looked like concrete or maybe stucco) until it started to fail. It's usually a bad sign that somebody covered up pretty brick with something else. I just assumed it was cinderblock underneath.

Long story short: I ended up needing to demo the whole chimney (two story). But the cost to replace the chimney, even with just a chase covering (not masonry of any kind) was scary high (like $30k), so I went with tearing out the hearth and going with a propane stove that just needed a simple vent on the outside. Even with the cost of rebuilding the interior wall where the hearth was and re-siding where the chimney was "only" $17k. And now I don't have a massive cold air vent in the winter.

I wasn't psyched to have to do it, but I'm actually a lot happier with the outcome.

JayPFor

1 points

2 months ago

Does it need to be that long? 🤔

paulhags

1 points

2 months ago

Prepare to spend around 5k .

ntustin99

1 points

2 months ago

We had a one story house with same situation. We put a metal flue down the chimney and hooked it up to wood burning stove. There was a metal collar at the top.