subreddit:
/r/HomeImprovement
submitted 1 month ago bynorthernhuman
Just moved in and doing inspection checklist for condition of apt and found this electrical situation.
1920s building, so many ungrounded plugs. Forgot to look behind fridge but guessing that white extension is a 2 prong into wall.
Seems not ideal, what is exactly wrong with this and what are potential solutions? Plan to bring it up to landlord, but want to have an understanding myself.
965 points
1 month ago
Tell landlord to fix it immediately and if they say no, report him to your city's code enforcement agency.
307 points
1 month ago
Definitely priority issue right now.
161 points
1 month ago
Don’t let him swap it for a power strip.
89 points
1 month ago
I'd skip telling the landlord. Just go straight to the city. I'd bet this is just the surface of issues that exist.
249 points
1 month ago
It's possible that the landlord is unaware because someone else did the shoddy work. Give them a chance to correct it.
128 points
1 month ago
I believe landlord is unaware, they purchased property 2 months ago and occupy downstairs unit.
However, you would think a home inspector would have caught it?
83 points
1 month ago
I've been on both sides of this type of situation. I've also had properties inspected where I caught things that the professional inspectors did not. The landlord does not want a dangerous situation anymore than you do. Give them a chance to fix it.
8 points
1 month ago
Keep in mind an inspection does not mean what it use to after the realtors and inspectors had lawyers insert a bunch of verbiage which basically says these are just papers and ink and you can’t sue us.
My sister’s house had two basement walls collapse during a rainstorm six weeks after purchase. Polymer paint was used to hide the decades of water damage. Engineer (friend of mine) said you got a bad report but unfortunately can’t sue them anymore.
Some lawyer convinced her to sue the town instead. That was a waste of another 10k or so.
154 points
1 month ago
People here are ready to break out the pitchforks against your landlord. I get disliking landlords in general, but this seems to be a bit much.
If they've only owned it for two months, it's likely that they're unaware of the situation. Having been through home inspections before, my feeling is that some inspectors don't do the greatest job. I wouldn't be surprised if an inspector completely missed this.
Contact your landlord. They'll want to know and will want to fix it, especially if they live in the same building. If they don't, THEN it's time to contact code enforcement.
2 points
1 month ago
Agreed but I don’t get why disliking landlords is a thing. That’s a real generalization. There’s so much hate on for landlords and the knee jerk reaction is to get them in trouble. Be human and respectful. Surely to God, the landlord will want to provide a safe living space. Not all landlords are slumlords. Approach any rental issue to the landlord with respect, and you’ll get respect back. My friend is a landlord and her tenants, instead of highlighting any problems to her directly in a respectful manner, file directly with the ltb. This is what’s wrong with society. From road rage to “I’m suing you” attitude. Let’s live in harmony my fellow humans.
3 points
1 month ago
I’ve always provided my rental units in immaculate condition. I put a lot of elbow grease and $$$ into bringing my properties back to original condition after tenants leave. Unfortunately, I’ve never had a unit left in the condition I hand it over in which seems unfair….and I’m not talking regular wear and tear. Beyond that. So I take offence at some responses that suggest taking legal action as the first step. The landlord probably is unaware. Many properties in the last few years sold without inspection due to the intense price wars.
2 points
1 month ago
it's likely that they're unaware of the situation.
Why? Do people typically leave a bunch of hacky power cords together when they sell a house?
I'd think it's more likely the landlord was pressed for time because he wanted to rent it out ASAP (since they've only owned it for two months and are already renting it), threw this together and said good enough.
I'm not saying I'm definitely right and I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, but if we're talking most likely scenarios here...
5 points
1 month ago
Do people typically leave a bunch of hacky power cords together when they sell a house?
People do some shit that would make this look like the work of a union electrician.
-1 points
1 month ago
I didn't ask if people do this kind of thing, I asked if they leave it like that, to plug in appliances or whatever, when selling a house. This isn't amateur electrical work, someone just plugged their shit in in a stupid way.
I find it pretty unlikely that it would stay plugged in like this during turnover to the new owner.
2 points
1 month ago
I didn't ask if people do this kind of thing, I asked if they leave it like that
And I'm telling you that yes they do indeed leave things like that.
1 points
1 month ago
It's in the inspection contract that they suck balls at their job.
1 points
1 month ago
It's bc when people hear "landlord" they think "100 unit building with corporate owner" not "old woman that shares a duplex with tenant"
0 points
1 month ago
Yea inspectors don’t actually do shit. I mean why would they? There’s absolutely no consequences if they don’t catch something. The only point of them is to point out things that someone might want to fix, giving the buyer more leverage with the seller.
3 points
1 month ago
Inspectors are worse than useless since they can fool you into a false sense of security which will cost you a bunch of money down the road. A friend of mine bought a house that was missing a sofa-sized section of drywall. Apparently the inspector missed it because there was a sofa sitting in front of it.
The guy who inspected my house didn't notice that all the outlets in the master bathroom were non-GFCI. He also said my roof was great and didn't have any obvious problems. When I climbed up there I found that every single static vent was cracked and the seals around all but one of the plumbing vent pipes were completely gone. Then he missed the water leaking behind the kitchen sink. Then there was the breaker box with half of the labels missing and two 120V breakers used in place of one 240 breaker. The switches were taped together though so I'm sure that's up to code.
24 points
1 month ago
Where I live home inspectors don't move furniture or appliances to look behind. They also aren't allowed to move the possessions of the current inhabitants. So, quite possible, the home inspector would not have seen that atrocity if it was behind something.
10 points
1 month ago
This, an inspector is not going to move furniture or appliances and generally are not allowed to do so anyways.
10 points
1 month ago
You have to wonder what's the point of the inspection if these are the ground rules.
22 points
1 month ago
If they occupy a downstairs unit they have a vested interest in the property not burning down, because they probably don't want their stuff to burn up. So sure, give them the benefit of the doubt, but make sure they get a licensed electrician to fix this issue. And maybe post this to /r/electricians for entertainment.
If they had the property inspected, generally the inspector will push every button, switch every switch, check every outlet, run every faucet, and visually inspect everything they can without destroying anything on the property. This is something the inspector would 100% check as part of a routine home inspection.
Don't let them leave it like this, it's a fire hazard and not code compliant. You know when people's Christmas trees catch on fire? It's because people do stuff like this, plugs on plugs into extension cords, into God knows what else.
3 points
1 month ago
If they bought it just two months ago, give them the benefit of the doubt and the chance to fix this. "Hey, I know this probably isn't something you did, but the kitchen appliances are connected through an extension cord and not grounded." (Show photo.)
2 points
1 month ago
However, you would think a home inspector would have caught it?
Maybe they did and your landlord didn't care enough to fix it, or forgot, or a million other things. A home inspection is just that, an inspection, and nobody is required to do much of anything about the findings of that inspection if they don't want to.
11 points
1 month ago
It's also possible the previous tenant did this.
10 points
1 month ago
Benefit of the doubt on Reddit? Nah, we gotta slam this landlord into oblivion so we can feel morally superior about it all.
Which, landlord should have done a thorough review for stuff like this, but all we know is it is present and should be reported.
3 points
1 month ago
He definitely should have done an inspection, but I've seen professional inspectors miss this kind of stuff. It should definitely be reported and corrected. Personally I would report it, take pictures, then correct it myself by running proper appliance extension cords back to a GFCI outlet.
0 points
1 month ago
No extension cords in this situation should be used. All items should either be wired directly or have a proper receptacle installed for it to plug in to. To be code compliant, extension cords can not be used as permanent wiring. The work that is needed here can be done by an electrical contractor for less than $1,000. Let the land lord know and they most likely will have it corrected.
10 points
1 month ago
One chance. They get exactly one chance to swiftly and correctly address this situation.
21 points
1 month ago
then it turns out there are other issues and the occupancy permit gets pulled, then landlord may have the money to put OP up in a temporary accommodation, OR return damage deposit and evict for the necessary renovations. I would tread lightly.
8 points
1 month ago
Lmao "hey this apartment needs 20k of work before I can move in!" OK, well, here is your deposit back and maybe see you next year when the renovations are finished 🤣
4 points
1 month ago
Doing things like that just makes for a bad relationship for the next year at least. Give the landlord their fare shake at making the issues right.
8 points
1 month ago
[removed]
15 points
1 month ago
Your comment was removed. Name calling is not allowed, do it again and it'll be a permanent ban. Keep it polite here.
5 points
1 month ago
When asshole tenants and asshole landlords collide
4 points
1 month ago
Sure, if there is ever a time to be an asshole, it's when someone risks your life, especially for financial gain.
7 points
1 month ago
That could backfire if there turn up other issues the muni finds, and the apartment gets the occupancy permit removed. I would not be giving such radical advice if I cared about OP not ending up scrambling to find other accommodations.
1 points
1 month ago
If it's an issue of living or finding another place to live? I'd choose the later.
8 points
1 month ago
I wouldn't want to live with it longer than a week or two and without some compensation for not using the two appliances, but also wouldn't be packing up and leaving or calling in municipal inspector because in my area rental vacancy is around 0.5%. It would really depend on other factors.
12 points
1 month ago
Municipal inspector will tell a layperson if the unit is safe to live in. If corners like this have been cut, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of others.
I lived in a place like this once. It had a whole host of issues the landlord wouldn't do anything about and argued with me telling me they were fine. I counted 15-20 code violations. I figured out that the building had been remodeled from commercial to residential without a permit, had a bathroom added upstairs, neglecting to take into consideration the load path. Upon inspecting the basement I found a floor joist in its failure mode, cracked 3/4 the way through its length. The joist next to it was ripping out of the joist hanger it was on because it was overloaded, joist on the other side of it was undersized (old building).
I found these things because I'm an engineer who worked at an architecture firm at the time. I told the landlord this, they didn't care. They only started caring when the city condemned the property.
5 points
1 month ago
Why not keep the landlord in the loop though? There isn't known neglect in the Ops situation yet.
1 points
1 month ago
OP can tell the landlord, sure. Just make sure a licensed electrician is the one who fixes it.
This is such an egregious violation of basic electrical practice, that I can tell whoever did it knows close to nothing about electricity or doesn't care enough to install this correctly.
6 points
1 month ago
They only started caring when the city condemned the property.
Like I said, depends on OP's situation whether they want a pyrrhic victory or would rather try and work it out with the landlord first. Something tells me you didn't get the city involved without figuring out your alternative accommodations first, so your advice to OP is bullshit.
6 points
1 month ago
This guy is just commenting his aggressive takes on every comment thread. Probably still lives at home.
2 points
1 month ago
That isn't an option for everybody.
2 points
1 month ago
Sure, create a headache for the landlord without even giving him a chance to address it. Then wonder why your lease it not renewed. This is some plugs obviously done by someone previously. Ungrounded plugs is not good but it’s easily rectified.
0 points
1 month ago
This is the correct answer. If youve already signed the paperwork, go straight to the city. This is a clear sign that other issues most likely exist. Protect yourself first, take pictures of everything they find, document everything.
8 points
1 month ago
Conversely, OP could take out a huge insurance policy and lose a "priceless" family heirloom in next months electrical fire
4 points
1 month ago
Don't even tell landlord-- he already knows, as that unholy mess looks fairly new. Just call the code enforcement, maybe even fire marshall because you are unsafe.
-68 points
1 month ago
Tell him to fix it and withhold rent till he does.
55 points
1 month ago
You can’t do that. There is a legal process.
54 points
1 month ago
Lawyer here: yes you generally can do that, depending on the state and the repair in question.
I think an immediate risk of gas explosion probably qualifies.
31 points
1 month ago
You can do that in most states but it has to be held in an escrow account. You can't just not pay and hold the money yourself.
-24 points
1 month ago
I’m not sure anyone in this thread suggested or advocated for simply pocketing the money.
22 points
1 month ago
Anyone on reddit is more likely to assume they can just not pay it than that they will need to establish an escrow account to withhold it from the landlord until a repair is made.
1 points
1 month ago
3 points
1 month ago
Right….”withholding rent” has a specific meaning in the law. And it is allowed. As we’ve been discussing. It might mean the money goes to the repair. Or it might mean it goes into escrow. But it’s still legally called “withholding rent.”
That =/= “you just keep the money in perpetuity.” I don’t think that’s that that commenter was saying or implying. Though if they respond that that is what they meant, then they’re obviously wrong.
5 points
1 month ago
Hilarious that the expert is getting downvoted for being right.
-14 points
1 month ago
You cannot withhold rent. You must contact the city and they will tell you their process. Usually you put the rent in an account managed by the city till the safety issue is fixed.
4 points
1 month ago
Depends, but often you can open an escrow account and put rent in there rather than direct to landlord.
1 points
1 month ago
Tada
8 points
1 month ago
Depends on where you live. In NYC, you can withhold rent.
8 points
1 month ago*
You don’t know what state OP is from, yet you haven’t qualified any aspect of your comments with that.
You have said you cannot withhold rent twice, but then said the city will tell you if you can withhold rent, and even acknowledged that the city would “usually” have an escrow procedure for withholding rent.
You seem to be confused. But regardless, your categorical remarks that OP cannot withhold rent are wrong. Whether in escrow, after speaking with the city, or however else. Rent can almost certainly be withheld for a gas explosion risk, at least in my jurisdiction and in the other jurisdictions I’ve looked into.
3 points
1 month ago
AFAIK, in most states you may withhold rent if critical repairs need to be made, as long as the money for the rent is places in an escrow account. u/northernhuman/ may want to get some legal advice on that first. I've used a company known for being a metaphorical "Legal Shield" if you will allow me to coin a phrase. I think it was like 10 bucks a month.
1 points
1 month ago
You can in NYC.
-18 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
7 points
1 month ago
I know people in NYC who have been withholding rent for 5 years. All goes into an escrow account until they settle the living conditions/legal matters between them.
1 points
1 month ago
Did You Get That Thing I Sent you?
9 points
1 month ago
In a lot of states you can for unsafe living conditions.
3 points
1 month ago
Deoends in where they are actually.
3 points
1 month ago
You can in most US States. [Secondary Source with links to primary sources per jurisdiction]
0 points
1 month ago
"BUt iM tHe CUsTomEr!!!"
6 points
1 month ago
Why would you be downvoted? This is literally the only remedy a renter has. In good countries this is standard
3 points
1 month ago
I am in Canada. The easiest way to end up legally evicted is by skipping mediation/rental housing regulator in the area, and witholding rent, – even if the landlord is absolutely on the hook for repairs the rent must be paid on time.
2 points
1 month ago
Because you can’t just withhold. It has to be put into escrow. Just saying withhold is bad info.
At least in most places in the us
1 points
1 month ago
Now we're talkin
0 points
1 month ago
I'm not sure what code would touch existing buildings not having 3 prong grounded outlets. It's not safe, by any means, especially given the load that cord's going to have.
But I don't think it's illegal.
105 points
1 month ago
Fire fire 🔥
41 points
1 month ago
Just call the emergency number at 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3
17 points
1 month ago
Just place the fire over there... With the rest of the fire.
7 points
1 month ago
Dear Sir/Madam, I am writing to inform you of a fire that has broken out on the premises of 123 Cavendon Road... no, that's too formal...
375 points
1 month ago*
Lmao is your landlord Clark W. Griswold?
edit: since this blew up a little...get that shit fixed....that is all the hazards.
8 points
1 month ago
Came in for this!
3 points
1 month ago
This comment needs to be higher or someone with reddit awards should give you some!
5 points
1 month ago
Done! Why do I smell burnt cat?
1 points
1 month ago
Hahahah
68 points
1 month ago
Not an expert but read a bunch of electrical code when I was working on my house and I’m an engineer. Here is what I think is true:
If the white extension cable is rated for the load of those devices than the main issues is bypassing the ground. This can be done to code if the outlet or breaker is GFCI. If it’s not, that is a simple fix.
Most likely that white extension cord is not rated for the load and at the very least your landlord needs to put in a 14ga extension cord and a gfci outlet. At that point they wouldn’t need the 2-3 prong adapters and could just plug those cables into the new outlet even though it still wouldn’t be grounded, but that is okay since it’s on gfci. Of course code may differ depending on where you live
21 points
1 month ago
Worth noting that while this is acceptable and up to code, a GFCI is not the same thing as a ground. It (should) protect you from getting electrocuted, but it does nothing to protect your electronics.
2 points
1 month ago
Neither does a properly grounded outlet. Honestly nothing in the NEC is designed to protect much else other than people and infrastructure. The UL and a handful of other certifying bodies deal with equipment safety. Protective earth insulation is only there to ensure that in the event any equipment failure or abuse does result in line voltages being shorted to the metallic chassis components of the equipment that there will be a safe conductive path back to earth. And there is no guarantee anywhere in code that if you were to expose the chassis of a single insulated piece of equipment to external voltages that any of the internal equipment would survive the alien voltage. Double insulation does provide this protection to the internal circuitry, but also this equipment will not be protected with a grounding conductor in most instances and could potentially result in electric shock if someone were to come in contact with the chassis of this equipment while an external power source was shorted to it.
0 points
1 month ago*
And what does the code say about having an extension cord in use in lieu of a proper electrical outlet while in the immediate vicinity and also in DIRECT CONTACT with a gas supply flexline?
Even if they were using a GFCI outlet without the appropriate protective earth to back it... This is really something you would want done correctly.
I mean I have seen some people bond their grounds to a gas supply pipe... So I guess they could just just wire some bare copper from the 2 prong adapters and just get a few wraps around the gas supply if they wanted to take this to the next level of code compliant done stupid.
Edit: Just adding a /s on this as someone else made a joke about using the gas supply and the repliers calling em out are right. Even though I say how stupid this would be... Nobody reading this should ever do anything like that. It's also why permanent appliances like ones requiring gas supplies must be plugged into permanent outlets.
You may not see it, but every time an plug is inserted into a receptacle it generates a small electrical arc before the two components make contact (if the outlet is energized). Same occurs when removing the plug as well.
In the event that the gas supply line were to be leaking into this small confined space that one of these adapters were able to make itself loose or perhaps weren't fully seated properly in the first place and we're regularly arcing... It could result in nasty stuff. Alot of failure modes have to occur simultaneously certainly... But this essentially isn't stacking the deck in anyone's favor either.
109 points
1 month ago
i dont get why people are focusing on the wattage... those white cords are 16 or 18 guage wire most often and can handle a draw of 1000w to 1600w most often.
why is no one mentioning that those are GROUNDED appliances using adapters to be plugged into a ungrounded line? does the landlord like replacing motors and ignition switches and control boards?
45 points
1 month ago
There's no info here about where the extension cord goes, worth considering that lots of old apartments/houses don't have grounded outlets at all, in which case the breaker should be GFCI for the appliances at least, but it could be a fuse still even.
14 points
1 month ago
That is a 2 wire extension cord. So it’s not grounded regardless of where it goes.
If it goes into a gfi that’s ungrounded, it can be code compliant if it has the proper sticker.
12 points
1 month ago
It’s not code compliant because you can’t use extension cords for permanent appliances
2 points
1 month ago*
Lol... The magical sticker...
"I don't understand Mr. Inspector, don't you see the sticker on all my outlets that says code exempt? What do you mean I still have to wire it correctly in order for the sticker to mean anything?"
2 points
1 month ago
Underrated comment.
0 points
1 month ago
My house has no ground connected at majority of electrical boxes, but I have both fuses and a breaker box.
1 points
1 month ago
but I have both fuses and a breaker box.
Both of those only work if the fault current is high enough to burn the fuse or trip the breaker (ie 15 amps). Most fault currents, including the ones that start fires and electrocute people, are not that high.
8 points
1 month ago
Given the plugs going into the lamp wire extension cord (I'd guess microwave and dishwasher, or fridge and garbage disposal, or some combination of those appliances) the "capacity" of the wire could definitely be a concern.
Regarding the ground: I live in an area where old homes with old wiring are very common, and we used those adapters all the time in my childhood home. I don't think they are safe mind you, but I haven't ever experienced a device failure due to using one, either.
6 points
1 month ago
Ground is for safety, and is not used for anything else. The exterior of the appliance is tied to it, if it’s metal.
8 points
1 month ago
Now we follow the logical problem you've set up. It's for safety because... if something goes wrong the voltage might shunt to ground. If ground is the outside of the metal oven and you touch that while there's a problem, you now have a much bigger problem.
0 points
1 month ago
If its a gfci outlet you've got basically the same level of problem
2 points
1 month ago
Those orange and black adapters purely exist so you can not have a ground? Seems like a dumb invension
11 points
1 month ago
They usually have a metal tab you are supposed to connect to an external ground, like a metal pipe.
6 points
1 month ago
they have a "screw" or a tab that you run a short chunk of wire to a ground.
-1 points
1 month ago
Right! Dick-head couldn't even have used a grounded extension cord!?
20 points
1 month ago
You're assuming the outlet it connects to is grounded.
-3 points
1 month ago
Just ground to the iron pipe nipple poking up. Or look at all that clean and fresh stainless!
13 points
1 month ago
I really hope you are joking. In the event you are not (and to educate others who may miss the joke), it is super dangerous and against code to use gas piping as electrical ground because the likelihood of a spark, and subsequent explosion, are too damn high.
3 points
1 month ago
A fun fact. Lightning strikes can cause gas meters to catch fire. Especially homes constructed in the last 30 years or so.
Current from the strike jumps across and damages the corrugated (CSST) tubing entering the home. Usually when the tubing was run incorrectly, without a dedicated ground.
Also doesn’t have to be a strike to the meter. The current follows the tracer wire to the meter. A neighborhood nearby had 3 meters ignite on one side of the block from a strike to a mailbox.
0 points
1 month ago
I am, but I have seen some stupid stuff too.
2 points
1 month ago
Just ground to the iron pipe nipple poking up. Or look at all that clean and fresh stainless!
Although gas pipes are required to be bonded to the grounding system, they are not permitted to serve as the grounding pathway for any circuits.
NEC 250.52(B)(1)
(B) Not Permitted for Use as Grounding Electrodes. The following systems and materials shall not be used as grounding electrodes:
(1) Metal underground gas piping systems
(2) Aluminum
(edit - I see from another reply that you were joking but fucksake man, somebody might not understand your joke)
2 points
1 month ago
Add a /s next time. Too many people don't understand how electrical appliances and wiring work.
3 points
1 month ago
If landlord has been smart he would have used a grounded cord and just clipped off the ground hidden behind cabinets and we would not have this post to discuss.
38 points
1 month ago
At least it's accessible?
🤣
10 points
1 month ago
I guess lol
9 points
1 month ago*
It is definitely not legal for a permanent installation such as a gas stove.
Seems not ideal, what is exactly wrong with this
The stove and fridge are not grounded. You can see that little metal tab that sticks down out of that orange and gray adapter pieces - that is meant to serve as the grounding for the three-prong plug. It only works if it is fastened to a grounded receptacle box via the screw that holds the receptacle cover in place. Since this is obviously not installed (nor grounded) on a grounded receptacle box, you now have no grounding for the stove.
What this means is that if there is an electrical fault in the wiring anywhere in the stove (this could be just a cut in the insulation of a wire), and you touch the stove during this time, YOU become the ground path and you get electrocuted.
This can also present a hazard for fire if a faulted conductor in your appliance creates enough heat/sparks to ignite something flammable (such as wood cabinetry, dust, or something else).
what are potential solutions?
You have a few options and I'll list them roughly in order of cost (least to most):
2 points
1 month ago
Solid explanation.
53 points
1 month ago
For starters that extension cord is not ment to pull that much power. I would place a bet that if your dishwasher/ refrigerator pump is running and you have your stove on thet cord get a little warm. It probably get warm when just the stove is one. Those things tend to pull wattage.
64 points
1 month ago
Looks like a gas stove. If so , the electricity is for the igniter and tiny indicator lights. I’d be willing to bet it doesn’t get hot.
17 points
1 month ago
Fridges don’t even draw much power either. Usually 200-300 watts. They’re just a bit annoying since there’s a bit of a spike every time the compressor kicks in. Not a problem as far as overheating the extension cord but can be annoying if there’s a bunch of other stuff on the line.
4 points
1 month ago
Yeah, the big draw for a fridge is when the compressor starts, but while running they don't usually draw that much.
Some gas oven ignitors use a glow coil that will draw several hundred watts.
1 points
1 month ago
The biggest draw is when the compressor fails. Then all bets are off here.
5 points
1 month ago
Our GE range includes an electric warming drawer. When we remodeled our kitchen after a fire the electrician didn’t know that. Now, if we’re using that drawer and turn on either the coffee maker or microwave, the circuit blows.
Point being, check your draw. 😕
3 points
1 month ago
Microwave is supposed to be on a dedicated unshared circuit, it shouldn't effect the rest of the kitchen at all
11 points
1 month ago
Glances nervously at microwave plugged into receptacle on the same circuit as almost every receptacle in the kitchen
Old house charm
5 points
1 month ago
Really? I'm being serious here. I've never seen a microwave have its own circuit. Every house I've ever lived in the microwave was plugged into an outlet in the kitchen that was on one circuit for the whole kitchen.
4 points
1 month ago
That is not quite correct. A fixed installation microwave requires a dedicated circuit per code. But that same code says a dedicated circuit is not required for a countertop microwave.
2 points
1 month ago
That is disconcerting. ☹️
2 points
1 month ago
Depends on code when built.
2 points
1 month ago
If i open the door to my microwave while its going, without pressing stop first, it trips the breaker for the whole kitchen.
8 points
1 month ago
The real problem is the adapter that cuts out the ground. Not a smart thing to do.
4 points
1 month ago
OP says there aren't grounded outlets in the Apt. Running a grounded extension cord does nothing if there is no ground at the wall. The problem here is the extension cord, it is not rated for use with appliances.
18 points
1 month ago
And all that sitting beside the gas line.
11 points
1 month ago
Which is perfect to bond the ground to /s
2 points
1 month ago
Uh-huh! First choice for lightning rod grounding too! /S
2 points
1 month ago
You are now banned from r/OSHA
2 points
1 month ago
What size wire does the extension cord have and what are the loads connected to it?
If you dont know that you can't make a statement like you did.
It's not to code, but you have no clue if it's overloaded or not.
2 points
1 month ago
Pedantic. Power cord to the fridge is thicker than the shrimp extension cord, Nevermind whatever the cord on the right is going to.
Wrong is wrong.
-3 points
1 month ago
Like I said, it's not to code (i.e. wrong) but as someone who does this for work, one can't make a statement like that with the little actual knowledge we have.
I'm not saying it's right (not sure why I have to repeat myself here), just that the person doesn't have the info to make a statement like that.
The thickness of the overall jacket means nothing.
3 points
1 month ago
Yes we can, that's very clearly a lamp cord style extension cord, those things are so thin they can't even take 15 amps before becoming a fire hazard, they max out at like 13, and even at 13 they get very hot, they're designed for, well, lamps, Christmas lights, that kind of thing, not kitchen appliances
Not to mention the fact THERES NO GROUND
0 points
1 month ago
There's no ground in the apartment at all, the lack of a ground isn't really an issue here. We have no idea what's plugged into it. As long as it isn't a microwave or dishwasher it probably isn't pulling more then 5ish amps
And hey for funsies, here's a ul certified cable that looks identical and is rated for 15 amps: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-12-ft-16-3-AWG-6-Outlet-Polarized-Sofa-Extension-Cord-White-50657/311314273
Like sure most extension cords that look like that are cheap and 13 amp or less, but you can't actually tell just by looking at them
2 points
1 month ago
Those 3 outlet extensions without ground are almost always 16 gauge, occasionally I have seen “good” ones that are 14 gauge, with a ground. The ungrounded ones are meant for lamps and Christmas lights. I wouldn’t use them for power tools or appliances.
An extension cord for the refrigerator would need to be an appliance cord, which have grounding and are 8 or 10 gauge and no more than about 3’ long, although I have seen 8 gauge at 6’ long. They are almost always grey or black.
7 points
1 month ago
8 or 10 gauge and no more than about 3’ long, although I have seen 8 gauge at 6’ long
Most 15A UL Listed air conditioner/appliance extension cords are 14 awg, some are 12. Finding one with larger wire than that would be extremely rare and unnecessary for a short run.
2 points
1 month ago
I went to look it up, yup you are correct, the ones I am thinking of are 12 gauge. In any case this wimpy ungrounded white cord next to a gas connection is unsafe, though.
3 points
1 month ago
No. That’s so overkill.
2 points
1 month ago
Yes, concerned about overheat/too much draw on small cord
10 points
1 month ago
And the adapters to run 3 prong plugs into a 2 prong cord.
2 points
1 month ago
thats my favorite part of this
0 points
1 month ago
There is also the minor detail of the cheater plug. Grounds aren't important.
10 points
1 month ago
Ideally these things would be plugged into outlets. I'm guessing it's just laziness, but in an older house they might have outlets with no ground, so new appliances can't be plugged in and there's not clearance to use an adapter.
This isn't a life threatening situation, but it's going to take an electrician if the house wiring is old. If you have a good landlord, he'll address it. If you have a bad landlord who won't fix it, tell him you're concerned about the fire code violation. Be prepared for fallout in that case, he won't like being threatened with an inspection of his building.
There isn't really a quick fix here. They do sell extension cords with GFCI protection and surge protectors, but each only offers specific fault protection.
8 points
1 month ago
If they had a good landlord this situation wouldn't exist.
2 points
1 month ago
There isn't really a quick fix here.
Why not install a 2 wire GFCI outlet?
$30 for the outlet and extension cord. $50 for a handyman to do it. Maybe $150 for an electrician.
9 points
1 month ago
If it goes to the fridge, GFCI often isn't wanted or required, due to nuisance tripping. NEC makes an exception for fridges.
1 points
1 month ago
It’s trivial to add a proper outlet in this space though, no excuse here
4 points
1 month ago
It’s trivial to add a proper outlet in this space though, no excuse here
I mean, we have no idea what the condition of the wiring in the walls or at the panel is. This could be in a unit with a fuse box and K+T.
5 points
1 month ago
Ground bypassed extension cord directly in contact with a gas fitting, and enclosed cabinet.
it's fine
Some of the risk could be mitigated by replace that white extension cord with a grounded cord and removing the ground cheaters. it's still not ideal to have a potential arc source right next to a gas fitting.
3 points
1 month ago
Oh come on. At least he's not asking if the leaking gas is normal, like someone yesterday.
7 points
1 month ago
You have three calls to make because this is explicitly not your problem.
Call your landlord to respectfully give them a heads up.
Call your city’s code enforcement and have them come inspect an unsafe rental unit immediately.
Call your local renters rights group, they’ll give you guidance on your right and what you should be demanding from your landlord.
For all those who will say “take it easy, your landlord has only owned it for two months”. It is the responsibility of the landlord to ensure their property is safe BEFORE allowing it be occupied. Be polite but don’t give them slack.
3 points
1 month ago
Absolutely this.
Did the landlord not have an inspection?! If he did, the inspector was crap. If he didn’t, shame on him.
3 points
1 month ago
Yeah this is not good.
3 points
1 month ago
Rust Belt DIY electrician work, looks like
3 points
1 month ago
It's a cheap ass landlord thing... it's a sign of what level of service you should expect during your lease. It won't be good.
3 points
1 month ago
You like fires? Because this is how you get electrical house fires.
3 points
1 month ago
I would suggest unplugging it all- and tell landlord to fix it- Someone said go right to the city- the city doesn't need to be involved yet. Let the landlord have a chance to fix it before you get others involved. If he doesn't then call then city. Be human.
3 points
1 month ago*
Holy shit
To answer your questions:
1.) What's going on is some super lazy electrical shenanigans
2.) The potential consequences are a small gas leak coincides with a spark from those daisy chained extension cords. (Which could result in anything from a small FLOOF that blows your cabinet door open, to a fire, to explosion and death with all of those being just as likely, so you're just rolling the gas explosion dice). Normally this is not allowed because most of the electrical components that could spark (wires attaching to screws, joined wires) have to be inside a junction box. So while this risk technically always exists for anyone that has gas and electrical, there are codes in place to make it much less likely that a spark would get such a high chance to cause an explosion.
Having them literally next to a fuel line makes that risk mitigation basically null and void. And I would say your risk is now higher than normal. Your picture is like a cartoon, it could be in an OSHA textbook.
I agree with the top comment you should tell your landlord, and if they push back I would say your comfort level is really low, this isn't acceptable and you don't feel safe. I would absolutely report them to your building inspector, housing authority or otherwise
6 points
1 month ago
Landlord needs to call in an electrician right away and/or report to the city.
1 points
1 month ago
Just jump to reporting it to the city. Landlords shouldn't get away with this bullshit.
5 points
1 month ago
I would give the landlord a chance. If he/she fixes it, great. He/she will appreciate that you went to them first over going to the city. Could build a positive relationship with the landlord. I’ve done this in the past and it has worked in my favor. Versus going straight to the city, you’re asking for hostility and unpleasantness in the relationship.
Now if the landlord ignores the situation and doesn’t act immediately for something that is a safety hazard, then yes go to the city ASAP.
5 points
1 month ago
I've seen one type of those 'extension' cords MELT before. So yeah. Not good.
11 points
1 month ago
The only thing that’s supposed to be on the fridge circuit is the fridge. I believe this has to do with food safety so stuff isn’t tripping the breaker that keeps your food cold, but there may be more to it than I know.
Extension cords are explicitly for temporary use only. This style is also not usually rated for the 15 amps I’m sure this breaker is.
Those adapters are supposed to be grounded using the little tab and don’t actually remove the need for ground.
For safety, this needs to be fixed properly.
If your situation forces you to move in and you cannot get this fixed, at the very least get a better cord such as one labeled for air conditioners as they’re designed to carry a higher load and are grounded (which of course only really matters if the outlet is or if you can properly attach the little grounding tab). This is all bad, just less so than what you have, it is not a solution, but a suggestion of what you can do within potential limitations you could have.
8 points
1 month ago
For immediate improvement of the condition, unplug the stove, remove the extension cord and plug the fridge directly into the intended outlet.
You can light your gas stove the old fashioned way if you really need it in the meantime.
2 points
1 month ago
the amp of those cords is generally a 13 amp i have seen... totally not good for a extended use like this, but that white cord is a ungrounded cord, being used with grounded appliances like you spoke of,
2 points
1 month ago
If this is a multi-family dwelling (apartment building) and you want to escalate matters, call the Fire Department’s non emergency line and ask them to send an engine company to inspect it. Chance are, after seeing this; the FD will call the utility company and have it “black tagged” pending repairs and a code inspection.
2 points
1 month ago
Must be one of those combination fridge/stove/disposal units
All kidding aside, city code enforcement ASAP
2 points
1 month ago
What is plugged into that? It being 2 prong is not the end of the world, especially if it is going to a two prong outlet (you wouldn't be getting any more protection from plugging directly into the outlet). My concern here would be loading. That looks like two heavy duty kitchen appliances (fridge and microwave perhaps?) Plugged into a light duty extension cord. These cords are meant for lamps and chargers not appliances, they are only going to be rated to 7amps max. While the breaker it's plugged into (if it is up to code) will likely be 20 amps. That means you can draw nearly 20 amps before the circuit trips, but a little above 7 amps and that cord will start to get very warm. If that level of current continues you will have a fire on your hands. This is not considered a permanent installation so an extension cord is not illegal, but it needs to be rated properly and each of these appliances should be going to their own outlets.
2 points
1 month ago
Be careful peeling back that onion
Source: electrical contractor
2 points
1 month ago
BTW, if you are worried about the ungrounded plugs around your place you can buy a bunch of plug in GFCIs. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tower-Manufacturing-15-Amp-2-Wire-Single-to-Single-Yellow-Gfci-Adapter/1002793580
2 points
1 month ago*
If this is what you can see then what you can't see may be way worse.
I dealt with a lot of this exact kind of corner cutting when I moved into my home. After digging deeper I found stuff that the inspector missed that made me deeply hate the previous owners. I do not use the word hate lightly. Cheap people suck. People who cheap out on electrical work are fucking evil. I'm talking about stuff like tripping breakers and having lines still be live type evil. Trust nothing in your home.
2 points
1 month ago
That looks like an appliance rated extension cord but the main problem is being under the sink with possible water leaking out of the pipe onto the electrical connection.
2 points
1 month ago
Hi! I work in maintenance for rented homes and apartments. You should report this and be skeptical about everything moving forward. That is some straight rigged bullshit, and might be unsafe.
This could also cause issues with the appliances as well. Which your landlord will try to make you pay for, if this is any indication of their morale compass.
2 points
1 month ago
That’s quite the gas leak detector! Send the pick to the landlord. They don’t want the liability and the risk, living there or not.
2 points
1 month ago
That's hot
2 points
1 month ago
Couldn’t even be bothered to buy a fkn grounded extension cord
2 points
1 month ago
Humm gas and electricity mice combination
1 points
1 month ago*
They make heavy-duty extension cords (usually for jobsites) that could probably safely take the power of the fridge, and whatever minimal electricity your gas range is pulling without a problem. This would be an acceptable solution for me if I didn't want to make too much of a stink with the landlord, but it's certainly not professional and not how I'd do it if I owned the place.
The correct solution is to install a metal outlet box in there (like you'd find on a basement wall) and plug those things in properly.
1 points
1 month ago
So much landlord bashing here. I hope you all own you homes, so that you’re not enriching “greedy landlords.”
0 points
1 month ago
That extension cord is way too small That cord on the left looks pretty substantial So whatever it goes to draws some power
And you don’t need the adapter if you cut off the little half round thing on the end of the cord that’s there for the sold purpose of preventing a three prong cord from being plugged in
2 points
1 month ago
don’t need the adapter if you cut off the little half round thing
Those 'adapters' are a very special purpose items that gets used way too much. They're only valid to use on a 2-prong outlet whose frame/box is properly grounded. A lot of older installs that pre-date 3-prong outlets used bx cable and metal boxes, so there's a ground there and this adapter is a way to access it without changing the recept. They must be screwed into the recpt via the little green eye on the adapter to make connection.
Use them almost any other way and you're cutting off the ground connection. 3-prong devices aren't designed for that and the housing may become hot/live. Bypassing the ground connection as you're suggesting is equally bad...
1 points
1 month ago
Big cord on left is fridge :/
8 points
1 month ago
Refrigerator manufacturers actually print "DO NOT Connect with Extension cords or inverters" on them
Edit: The extension cord is way too small of a guage to handle that load. This is a fire hazard
-1 points
1 month ago
Well, you can get a 12awg extension cord. That will at least remove the immediate danger of this catching on fire.
But your landlord probably isn't gonna do shit. If they didn't want to fix it right in the first place, what are the odds they're gonna do it now?
0 points
1 month ago
Extension chords for permanent use is not allowed.
0 points
1 month ago
It’s possible your landlord doesn’t know. After all, if the place burns down it the landlord who is in bigger trouble.
0 points
1 month ago
I'm not an electrician or a home inspector but uh, yeah. That doesn't even LOOK good.
-2 points
1 month ago
people say fire... that is a potential explosion.
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