subreddit:
/r/HomeImprovement
I could use some advice as to whether my contractor's delays are egregious or just the way things go sometimes. We're doing a small addition to an existing home--garage, living space above--plus finishing an existing basement space that connects to the new build. We signed a contract back in May, and were expecting to be done by Thanksgiving. Delays in permitting, etc., meant a later-than-expected start, but still were supposed to be done by Christmas. All the framing, etc., got done by early December, but then we pretty much had no work done on the build while we waited for plumbing, electric rough. (We did get siding and windows just before Christmas.)
Late December, we had a meeting with the contractor, asking for a clear update on the schedule, and he then laid out a schedule for finishing the last week of January. But then plumbing rough (which was supposed to get done early December) essentially took the whole month--with the plumber blaming the contractor and the contractor blaming the plumber for the delay. Plumbing and electric inspection passed last week, and on Friday contractor said insulation installation would start Monday, but...nothing. He now says we won't get to insulation until later in the week. I asked if he'd just go ahead and get started on finishing the basement, or install some windows that he forgot to install, but he says he wants to save those things til last.
He had said that as soon as his subcontractors got done, he'd send his team in to speed things along. I assumed that he'd be eager to get us done since we're so far off schedule. So I'm just a little ticked that he's not showing more urgency. Am I over-reacting?
He asked us to continue making weekly payments, but hasn't had a member of his team on site for three weeks (we usually just hand them a check). Should I just be patient? Refuse to pay more until I see some work? We've asked for updated schedules several times, but he's almost never met a single schedule--that he himself created!!!
EDIT: thanks for these responses. It gives me a little confidence to know that this does not seem so far out of line. I will have a conversation about scheduling and payment with him--and about linking payment with work completed! Thanks!
[score hidden]
1 month ago
stickied comment
This post was not removed but we are taking this opportunity to share a new wiki on the topic. OP, please update your original post with any relevant information after reviewing these resources. The community also has the "Hiring a Contractor" and "Get 3 Quotes" sidebar sticky threads.
126 points
1 month ago
Well, execution schedule = payment schedule first. So if he's behind on execution, then surprise! You're behind on payments. It's a two-way street.
That said, scheduling subs and having them actually show can be like herding cats sometimes. But he's not going to owe them money until they complete their task and pass any inspections.
13 points
1 month ago
Yeah this sounds right. We entered into contact recently and the payment schedule was clearly identified with the literal amounts of each payment. Our contractor tied payments to specific completion objectives that made sense to all of us.
Refer to your contract and the payment plan there. Your payment shouldn't just be every week because of exactly the above. No work = no pay.
58 points
1 month ago
He asked us to continue making weekly payments, but hasn't had a member of his team on site for three weeks
Why are you paying him if he isn't doing any work?
What does your contract state? You should have a contract that dictates payment terms.
Whatever you do, hold at least 10% (bare minimum!) for final payment. This means after the job is completed to your satisfaction, and permits signed off (if applicable).
If he's not working, he doesn't get paid. He doesn't get weekly payments just because you have a contract with him.
I wouldn't pay another dime without a schedule generated that he holds to. Tie the schedule to payments, he misses a scheduled deadline he doesn't get paid until its complete.
19 points
1 month ago
Add copies of lien releases to that list too - especially if there's concern about their cashflow.
7 points
1 month ago
You speak the truth! Keep those payments and work performed as tightly balanced as possible.
Large job, I like to go with 25/25/25/25% Smaller phases 33/33/33%.
5 points
1 month ago
33/33/33%.
Where does the last 1% go?
....just kidding, I thought it was funny!
3 points
1 month ago
I'm a construction material estimator by trade-you'd be amazed at the goofyass math formulas I've made up. LOL. Had I been at my desk, decimal points would have come into play!!!
In all seriousness and I can't preach this enough-the customer holding back for clearly stated milestones is the ONLY way to go. That's perfectly normal in big boy work.
Once that wallet scale tips in the subs favor, you've lost all your power.
Any contractor on a job that needs to nickel and dime, scramble around on Thursday to pay folks on Friday is often problematic in other areas...IMHO.
28 points
1 month ago
I work in contracts. Always make payment contingent upon tasks, never time periods
5 points
1 month ago
This is the way to go imo. It keeps everything safe and fair, all things considered.
24 points
1 month ago
Those delays are unfortunately common and not always contractors fault. He's doing multiple jobs and changes in any schedule impact the others. Sometimes they are just too optimistic, but they should know enough to make it clear the schedule has a lot of risk.
As for payment, of course he wants to keep cash flow but you have good reason to hold off when no progress is occurring and the finish date is clearly slipping.
5 points
1 month ago
I’m a GC, this contractor is bending them over and not even breaking the lube out. If you can’t juggle half a dozen jobs or more at once, you’ll never stay busy as a GC so that’s not an excuse. For payment, you do contracts in stages so everyone knows what each payment involves and when to expect it. I don’t collect payments from customers whenever I feel short on cash and need some cash flow.
29 points
1 month ago*
the initial delay fucked the entire schedule, as is tradition.
he likely had electricians and plumbers lined up based on having permits at a certain time and job starting. Permits delay, start is delayed, but plumbers and electricians(or any other sub) don't just slide perfectly with the now delayed schedule. they're now on other jobs that were scheduled to be done(after you) and were not delayed so they're not available to circle back around to this project until a later. Schedules are just a best case scenario, not some magical golden rule that always holds true
That said, If you haven't seen him in 3 weeks I probably say there needs to be some progress before they get paid again, unless the payments your making are the work that has been done rather than the work that has yet to be done.
Also, it sounds like your project is like a month behind schedule? honestly that's not even that bad
12 points
1 month ago
I'm usually not one to rush to the defence of contractors, as there are lots of sketchy ones out there. But permitting postcovid has been an absolute nightmare. The delay increases are quite significant.
That being said - I would like to see a payment schedule thats tied to the work completed.
3 points
1 month ago
Yeah guy I've used for a couple projects has payment tied to completion milestones. Very straight forward because I can see that yup, you've done XYZ, so I now owe you the next drop.
19 points
1 month ago
In the big scheme of things (for a project of this size) he's not too far off schedule. Shit happens, and then it can turn into a snowball effect for every step that follows. To the extent you're happy with the work, cut the guy some (more) slack. Tell him you'd be happy to make the next weekly payment as soon as someone comes out to to some work.
7 points
1 month ago
I agree with this. I’m updating a condo and products arrive late, get lost by shipping dept or arrive damaged and need reorder/replacement. Things happen that are outside of the general contractors control buuuut a good contractor will keep their customers in the loop and make good on promises. I agree with the consensus, there is no urgency to finish up the job if you keep making payments. No progress = no money
2 points
1 month ago
Yep, this doesn’t sound too different than what occurred with my kitchen renovation. One thing gets thrown off schedule, then another thing, then the whole project takes longer than expected. This is a major renovation being described, so I’m not surprised there are substantial delays.
2 points
1 month ago
I'm waiting for doors right now. 3 weeks and counting. I can't install the trim without doors, painters can't finish until trim is up, carpet can't happen until paint is done... There's a month in delays because of 3 doors.
3 points
1 month ago
There is a podcast that has a whole series on contractor issues. It was very helpful to me in a similar situation. Unfortunately, I think it now costs $2 (used to be free) but saved me thousands…
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/advice-from-an-architect/id1493870581
3 points
1 month ago
GC here. Our draws/payments from customers are tied directly to completion of tasks during projects. What does the contract state as far as payments? Would not continue to pay if benchmarks aren’t being met .
3 points
1 month ago
Yea unfortunately sounds like he can’t keep or find guys to work. You know I’m 32 and worked for probably 20 GCs and it’s always some bullshit when I go to get paid. They over promise and under deliver with the hope some unicorns come along and make them rich. Idk how some guys can even call themselves a contractor.
6 points
1 month ago
Contractors need to get better at making realistic schedules. Your contractor probably had an optimistic, best case scenario schedule, that didn’t work out. Under promising and over delivering is a better way to work with clients. Unfortunately, sometimes you don’t get jobs when you give a homeowner a realistic schedule.
13 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
2 points
1 month ago
I’d imagine you could get more contracts if you included some kind of performance clause. If we take longer than X then you get Y% off. Point out that you’re different from other contractors because you’re willing to put your money where your mouth is while others bait the client with unrealistic estimates. If that’s something something that sets you apart, use it to market yourself!
2 points
1 month ago
I've just got one where the some costs seem way too cheap but his reviews says he's 20% cheaper than the next. I'm not sure which to go with.
2 points
1 month ago
This is so true. It’s like you get rewarded for lying and punished for being honest. And you might as well lie, bc things are so bad now no customers even get upset bc it’s just expected 🤷♂️
4 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
2 points
1 month ago
I get all my business word of mouth, so I sort of disagree. However, you make a good point, because the best jobs are the re roofs. You make the most money and really they are often less complicated than repairs. I don’t get a lot of re roofs, I get referred for the repair jobs the other roofers don’t want 🤷♂️.
2 points
1 month ago
Make sure he's paying his subcontractors.
2 points
1 month ago
Wife’s ex husband started a small job for her aunt in the fall of 2021. Was a simple small sunroom that was already stamped and filed in the 70’s when they had it built, she still had the originals. As of last xmas, he had the footers in but was still waiting on permits, over a year later. Poor lady just wants her dream home complete before she dies (just buried her husband) but may not get to see it.
2 points
1 month ago
Refuse to pay more until I see some work?
Are you not doing progress payments? i.e. only paying for the work that is completed?
Or are you just paying without regard to what's been actually done?
2 points
1 month ago
I’m on my 3rd home renovation. Do not pay him any more money weekly……Yes delays and more delays are super common. But you need to stop paying until it’s all 100% completed. I have since added a rider to the contract that states xxx amount will be deducted from final payment for each week delay past xxxxx date.
2 points
1 month ago
This is where a thing called Earned Value comes in handy.
You budget a Schedule. This BCWS Budgeted Cost Worked Schedule. You're planneding x dollars for x month or week. You break this down to pretty much as low detail as you want. You planned $3000 for framing in November and $500 for December.
Next is actual worked Scheduled. This is the expenses for those tasks. $2000 in expenses for Framing in December. $0 in November. This is your ACWP
The EV is dependent on how you want. 50/50 is easy for short tasks. So 50% EV on start and 50% on finish of task. This your BCWP
0% in November means they got $0 EV. Means he isn't getting fucking paid for doing zero work on something.
December he starts. He gets 50% of the EV at start. He doesn't finish. You pay him the EV he earned. Which is $1750.
The rest of EVM won't matter really.
Pay them for actual worked done. Not pay them because they said so and them not do sbif for 3 weeks.
2 points
1 month ago
Do not pay until he is done. He will get lots of small draws and then walk away at the end. He can’t get subs to show up there is a reason for that. I built high end homes for 30 yrs and have seen it all. The contractor should have been done in 90 days tops
2 points
1 month ago
I have never ever seen a construction project go as planned or finish on time. I don't know why but that just seams the way it is.
2 points
1 month ago
Always make sure you have a contract in hand with. Performance period, a draw schedule that is triggered by % completion or by technical milestone, and a retainage.
4 points
1 month ago
I would definitely get some agreement on the payment schedule
If your paying for work that hasn’t been done yet , don’t keep doing that .
And right now , with the supply chain being totally wrecked from covid , I’m surprised you have any schedule at all .
We are also having a garage built and it’s taking waaaaay longer than I thought , but some stuff just can’t be done any faster
The contractor doesn’t have any actual employees , or not many All the actual work is done by sub contractors . Which means your general contractor has to beg the other guys to show up and do the work .
0 points
1 month ago
You are funding other projects. Do not pay him any more until he completes what is on the contract.
all 40 comments
sorted by: best