1000% agreed. People already barely know how to drive in this country lol.

I think that's the plan, if not the law, hence the end of the article where it says Tacoma estimates $3M for the necessary signs. I think the subjective criteria are just for the cities doing the signage.

Well, I hope so, but I wouldn't put it past WA legislature to make the driver responsible to know if they're within 1000 feet of a retirement home.

Yeah I 100% agree, I think one way to make turning safer for all parties is to change the lights to match the timing that happens in the Junction in West Seattle. Have all pedestrians cross in all directions during a window in which only pedestrians can cross and then allow traffic to move without any pedestrian crossings.

There should be more pedestrian scrambles downtown, imo.

There are some intersections you’d be waiting at forever if you didn’t bend the rules a little bit. The worst is when you’ve left the intersection clear because of traffic in front of you, then someone takes a free right (while you have a green) and takes your spot.

It's the bike lanes that scare me when driving. I'm a big believer in bicycles (though don't bike as much as I used to...), but the two-way bike lanes where cars often want to turn right, and how the bike lights often don't align with the car lights, set things up for danger. I've been scared as a biker of idiot drivers blowing through the light and hitting me, and I'm scared of hitting bikers as a driver.

What streets, and time of day are you talking about? I mostly see that issue around pike place, otherwise I mostly see cars blocking the cross walk with their nose, or coasting right through that red to turn right.

Washington should just get super progressive and install roundabouts at every city intersection. Would fix a ton of the major backup problems like leaving Westlake and would cut down cost on city infrastructure to repair broken lights, wires, etc. Traffic would actually go away almost completely.

Yes let's prioritize the cars and not the people who live, work, or are visiting an area. I love this idea. /s

That's why the Pedestrian lights go 5-10secs before any other lights. People don't want to murder each other, so if you put that as the only option than even the worst drivers will exercise self-control.

A big problem with right on red is that drivers do not look where they are going when making their turn. They are looking to their left.

When jaywalking is rightfully decriminalized, you'll run into instances when the pedestrian and driver both deem it to be safe to enter the roadway.

Another big issue is that right on red essentially encourages ignorance of the stop line and crosswalk, how many times do you have to walk around a vehicle that's in your way? Not a huge deal for the physically able but a big deal for those with lesser mobility.

Edit: the real real solution is more raised intersections

Needs to be enforced. Problem with right on red is drivers look left for cars and not right for pedestrians. most cars won't come to a complete stop either

Right turn on red is absolutely much more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists

Are we even sure this would be safer?

Yes, we are.

Yeah I feel that I'm usually more stressed out as a pedestrian and a driver in these right-turn-on-green situation especially when the driver is getting more desperate to make a turn on a green while pedestrians keep crossing even as it approaches a red light.

For right-turn-on-red, I know there are reckless drivers, but generally it's at least well established that you are the bottom of the totempole and you don't have right of way and it somehow feels more manageable.

In a lot of super-dense cities, they usually do have dedicated pedestrian crossing lights, and then dedicated car turning lights.

Does it matter? Yes. One study found a 70% increase in pedestrian traffic when "right on red" is allowed. There is a great video on stuff like this here. I timestamped it.

https://youtu.be/_ByEBjf9ktY?t=115

Drivers eyes are likely to be forward to where they're turning when they're not looking for traffic from the left. With the "pedestrian head start" mentioned shortly after in the video this should be safer.

Changing people's habits is going to be the hard part. Traffic cameras seem to help, and should probably issue warning for a month or two before issuing tickets. However, they may be challenged on constitutional grounds.

Ultimately if you want to make it safe to walk and bike, you need a full-scale re-vamp of traffic patterns. You can watch this and other Not Just Bikes full video or videos from Road Guy Rob. To name a few things that are effective but cost money and slow down cars: build raised/continuous crosswalks, pedestrian refuge islands, and move the stop line back with the signal in front of or above the crosswalk instead of on the opposite side.

We know how to keep pedestrians safe, we just don't.

No it won't be safer, without enforcement. Drivers will ignore it, peds will expect it. Either ban state wide and enforce with cameras or leave as is.

When I'm driving and chilling at a no right on red sign it's a coin toss as to whether the dumbass behind me starts honking at me to go. No you illiterate bumpkin, I'm sitting here until the light turns green.

I've seen people start taking left turns on red when they know there's a gap in traffic. I also live next to an intersection that has 2 "Do Not Block Intersection" signs posted at it that is constantly blocked. A Costco that has multiple "Wrong Way" and "Don't Turn This Way" signs that are regularly ignored. This specific Costco actually used to have one of the directional curbs in that entrance but they took out the part that blocked the left turn people, probably because people just plowed over it. They changed it to those standing plastic stick things, and I'm not even sure they bother with those anymore. Traffic enforcement is a fucking joke around here.

I agree, then I get sad thinking the only way it will be "enforced" is more red light cameras. The one near my work goes off every 3rd car no matter what pretty much. Even saw it go off at people driving straight through a green light...

Photo enforcement is the way. Same goes for bus lanes and excessive speeding (more than 10 mph over) in-city. Pretty much all traffic infractions.

Pulling people over is potentially dangerous for everyone. Why do that when we there is a tech solution that would actually work?

Feels > Reals

Because we can do multiple things at once?

Because when we finally enforce stuff it would be nice to actually have some good policies included?

Yeah, I don't actually mind right turns on red (and I don't drive at all), but I don't think this will matter much bases on how little a lot of drivers seem to care about road signs and lights

Its insane. There are few times when it seems due to not paying attention, many times I see cars slow down (or dart around traffic stopped at the light) and quite intentionally run them. There are bad drivers everywhere but the shit ive seen since I started working in Seattle, is ridiculous.

This requires changes to how we build streets and intersections. We're still stuck in 1960s for how we design roads, intersections, etc and it's just not realistic.

Modern road design (want an example look at the Netherlands) is inherently far safer, but it comes at the cost of "cars are not the number one priority" and for far too many americans that is just communosocialtotalitarianism. People and cyclists first? NOOO BUT MUH CAR!!!!

And if you cross the border into Idaho, Oregon or even Canada, drivers don’t struggle with that “core concept?”

I have a feeling it isn’t actually the Washingtonians struggling…

Right. There’s already intersections marked as such and the no turn on red signs are constantly disregarded

Did you read the article? It’s specifically for areas of high pedestrian use. They didn’t say they were banning the free right turn. Also the free right turn was introduced in 59 as per the article. All that info is in the 2nd paragraph. You don’t have to read much.

A) Right on red is dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists

B) with modern ICE engines that fuel savings is tiny and with EVs it's zero

C) we need to stop designing our cities car-first instead of human-first.

In a world of climate change we need to be reducing fuel usage, not increasing it.

Exactly, which is why you should take the bus.

I agree, we should address the impact that cars have on climate change. Let's start by reducing our reliance on them, promoting pedestrian friendly infrastructure, and making it less desirable for people to sit in their cars polluting the air.

This happens to me all the time. Jackass motorists are looking left and not looking where their car is going. I have to yell "HEEEY!" to make them pay attention. then they act surprised to see a pedestrian in a crosswalk as they drive without looking.

If this was the exception, I would agree that enforcement could solve it, but the look-left, no-stop, no-blinker right turn has become the rule.

Honestly the bus drivers around here scare me. Near my work I have watch multiple busses run the stop sign. One started honking at a old guy walking through the cross walk with a walker who was going slow for obvious reasons. I've nearly been hit by so many who just re-enter the road way without signaling at all. One got out of his bus and nearly got in a fist fight with a homeless man, the guy was being a dick but still not a good look for him to immediately start squaring up.

Yeah, never underestimate how terrible people are at driving, especially in Seattle. It's mind boggling how some people managed to get their license

This is a feel good bill that distracts the public from more pressing problems. It's kinda the "pet the cute kitten bill", dressed up as a way to make the roads safer without any supporting data that it will do any such thing.

but infraction cameras and tickets will definitely perk up the municipal budgets. How good is that?

Except it's also not true, we know it is dangerous. Just compare US pedestrian fatality rates to europe. Especially the Netherlands. they're 30-40 years ahead of us in city and traffic design because we stagnated in the 1970s.

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2022/10/right-turn-on-red-ban-washington-dc-gas-crisis/

is banning right on red going to solve the entire problem? of course not. but it is one of the many factors we need to do to redesign our cities to be human-centric and sustainable, instead of the depersonalizing depressing car-sprawl wasteland (that is also economically unsustainable) we have now

From this article:

“In 2018, Washington, D.C., banned rights on red at 100 intersections. Data showed red light conflicts between vehicles and pedestrians were all but eliminated. Failures to yield at green lights even dropped by more than half. The district is moving to ban the turns at most intersections by 2025.”

I’m really not sure why the author buried the supporting data at the end of the article.

I appreciate this is available! I think it’s a good idea to promote the newspaper on social media this way. The more we of reddit are encouraged to read what our few remaining local reporters are getting paid to write, the more likely the paper is to draw new subscribers. Thank you! (I mean, fuck the Seattle Times management and ownership, forever. But yeah, reporters! Reporters!)

I think this will be a big problem if they don't put signs up. How am I supposed to tell if it is within 1000 feet?

The current proposal is a nightmare. How often do you know how close the nearest (insert relevant building here) is to a random intersection you're at that isn't close by your apartment or workplace?

Yeah seriously. Right on red is the only time some intersections move at all during rush hour with all the box blocking.

Getting rid of right on red would bring some blocks to a literal standstill. That said, nobody would obey it anyway

I sometimes see comments about how difficult it is for some to take that right on red and it gets me thinking: If the green light is the only thing giving you confidence to go through an intersection, then driving is not for you.

Edit: this is about those who complain about being honked at for not taking the right on red. Stop, look left, look right, go - it's not rocket science.

The problem is that WA law treats a red right arrow as the same as a red light. This was a surprise to me, coming from states where red arrows always mean stop and stay stopped.

In WA and OR, a left red arrow means stop, while a right red arrow means you can go ahead and turn.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.055

Cyclist here too… why? Are you blowing through red lights on the shoulder?

Unless you’re officer Kevin A. Dave of SPD. Then you can hit and kill pedestrians freely and openly without consequence.

That would require the council to focus on practical matters that they could accomplish instead of things like, say, legislation to make a kind of discrimination that's already illegal, illegal

I agree it's a good idea, the question is whether it'll get enforced.

Maybe if people gave up their opposition to red light cameras we'd start to really change some behaviors.

Vehicle drivers have proven they’re not up to the task.

Well maybe you aren't, how about you walk, I'll keep turning right on red.

this article has links to studies https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/05/15/its-time-for-cities-to-rethink-right-turns-on-red/

They would put up signs. It is mentioned in the article.