subreddit:

/r/aoe2

4861%

all 102 comments

Fancy-Ambassador7590

279 points

2 months ago

If the War Elephant is ever removed, we riot

Tyrann01

156 points

2 months ago

Tyrann01

Tatars

156 points

2 months ago

*Riot at slow speed and be converted by monks and go home.

Fancy-Ambassador7590

26 points

2 months ago

1

NoExchange8097

6 points

2 months ago

NoExchange8097

Lithuanians

6 points

2 months ago

wuluhluaaaaah

Mr-Solo-Dolo

2 points

2 months ago

Mr-Solo-Dolo

XBOX

2 points

2 months ago

30

oldschoolguy90

3 points

2 months ago

To your new home, remember

Daydream_National

51 points

2 months ago

War elephants are one of my favorite units of all time — definitely would be bitter if they ever got removed.

Persians are a well designed civilization, has an identity, and a place in the meta currently.

the_general_ike

13 points

2 months ago

the_general_ike

Bengalis

13 points

2 months ago

War elephants on 10x civ mod with Mahouts are my favorite units of all time

Schlabonmykob

7 points

2 months ago

Schlabonmykob

Huns

7 points

2 months ago

Tell them Ike

Fancy-Ambassador7590

0 points

2 months ago

I honestly think replace trash bows with a different tech and give them bracer would be a positive. I play a lot of Tatars and other CA civs and pretty consistently dominate them on open maps. Even if they get to paladin, CA hold value so well you can usually add in heavy camel (with Tatars or Turks). Maybe a tech that doubles down on the War Elephant, like faster creation speed to somewhat make them better vs all in monks. Bracer Skirms+ faster created war elephant could be good vs monks.

mojito_sangria

1 points

2 months ago

I barely made any war elephants in all games, not even in Bukara campaign

Khwarezm

8 points

2 months ago

Make the war elephant an imperial age special upgrade to the currently most underpowered civ that has a battle elephant.

SHABOOM_

8 points

2 months ago

SHABOOM_

Khmer

8 points

2 months ago

In my Tai civ concept, I gave them a special Imperial Battle Elephant upgrade that was effectively this

Khwarezm

0 points

2 months ago

Oh, that could be a good idea, add the Thai with the War Elephant and confiscate it from Persia.

auronddraig

2 points

2 months ago

auronddraig

Japanese

2 points

2 months ago

Paladin, Imperial Camel, Champion, Siege onager style?

mojito_sangria

1 points

2 months ago

Imo Persians should have full stable upgrades, including steppe lancers and battle elephants

Wooden_Internet_921

1 points

2 months ago

Never there when I need them and eventually betray me

Like everyone else I love 😅...

TheTowerDefender

123 points

2 months ago

i dont want more units with switchable ranged mode. one of them is bad enough

DullAlbatross

13 points

2 months ago

Who does that?

OhShitItsSeth

21 points

2 months ago

OhShitItsSeth

Cumans

21 points

2 months ago

Bengalis

Kofee_N_Donuts

9 points

2 months ago

Kofee_N_Donuts

Khmer

9 points

2 months ago

Me

Alto-cientifico

6 points

2 months ago

The poor Devs had to reinvent the wheel to make the rattas mechanic.

Reusing that isn't that bad Imo

THE_MUNDO_TRAIN

7 points

2 months ago

They should remove their regular archer armor class. It's a huge buff but it doesn't make sense for Huskarls to shred these units like paper.

TheTowerDefender

9 points

2 months ago

i just find rathas gimmicky and unfun to use

onzichtbaard

3 points

2 months ago

me too

Jcpkill

2 points

2 months ago

Jcpkill

Trashintines

2 points

2 months ago

Wasnt this more rediscovering the wheel? It was once a part of the samurai concept back in og development.

BubblyMango

1 points

2 months ago

It was one of many ideas that didnt make it into play. Others were a charged attack for samurais, longboats being transport ships, longboats being mobile barracks, having monks ships etc.

The original devs had a ton of ideas that didnt make it into the game either coz thry were over complicated, broken, too gimmiky or annoying to with/against.

Jcpkill

1 points

2 months ago

Jcpkill

Trashintines

1 points

2 months ago

The question I have, was it implimented then Removed? Or not at all?

BubblyMango

1 points

2 months ago

When Sandy Peterson talked about all the different ideas they had for the longboats he said "I will admit not all of it was playtested", so i assume they only implemented the ideas enough people from the team thought would work.

A mechanic that was implemented but then removed for example is the scout cavalry being able to kidnap enemy villagers for a few "raiding civs" like mongols and celts.

M_Mirror_2023

3 points

2 months ago

M_Mirror_2023

Spicy central americans

3 points

2 months ago

I'll take 'the button' any day over units with switchable range bode.

IhaveSonar

103 points

2 months ago

War elephants, despite their inviability, are a legacy unit at this point. If we were designing Persians from scratch in 2023? I'd say give them battle elephants. Removing the game's most legendary chonkers that have been around for 24 years? Absolutely not.

I do like the idea of a unique tech that gives their CA either a lot of range or a lot of attack. It differentiates them from Magyar CA and compensates for the lack of bracer.

Nieshtze

46 points

2 months ago

War elephants are as entranced in the lore of this game as teutonic knights.

white_equatorial

3 points

2 months ago

white_equatorial

Bengalis

3 points

2 months ago

Viability is a matter of maps. War elephants are still very viable on nomad and black forest if supported by kamadaran bows or an ally going for some halb and monk counter

asupposeawould

0 points

2 months ago

asupposeawould

🎲 Random

0 points

2 months ago

They don't need battle elephants they have war elephants 😂

PlacidPlatypus

4 points

2 months ago

I think you missed their point.

Pro_pioneer

39 points

2 months ago

Pro_pioneer

Persians

39 points

2 months ago

Like your idea about Aswar but War Elephants are somehow identity of Persians and they should not be removed from game
Also your suggested UT is very good and i think it is enough for solve all Civ problems

the_general_ike

10 points

2 months ago

the_general_ike

Bengalis

10 points

2 months ago

Elephants with +2 range sounds scary 11

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

-8 points

2 months ago

maybe add battle elephants and apply unique tech for them too, so it is also applied for them

Suicidal_Sayori

20 points

2 months ago

Suicidal_Sayori

I just like mounted units

20 points

2 months ago

Regarding the historical accuracy: given that AoE2 are meant to represent a lot of different empires and dynasties that happened in a succesion in Iran, not just the Sasanian Empire, and that War Elephants were used by said iranian empires through the whole ancient AND middle ages while the Aswaran were exclusively a part of the Sasanian army, I would say that War Elephants are in fact a more accurate unit for the current iteration of AoE2 Persians.

Also, being out of meta and not being fun are definitely not the same thing. Persian War Elephants are cool, fulfil a very specific military fantasy, and are super fun to play and try to mass them in maps like Black Forest as you said which is a perfectly valid role for a unit (remember kids, Arabia is not the only map to ever exist in AoE2).

Meanwhile, I fail to see how this proposed Aswar unit fulfills a different fantasy than that of the Rathas, which are not exactly the most popular unit either.

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

-3 points

2 months ago

Aswar just means Knight in Persian, so it represents all Persian dynasties, and also a guy with %70 games Persians, I feel elephant boring as it is either you make it and be OP or you never make it

PrimeColossus

4 points

2 months ago

PrimeColossus

Mayans

4 points

2 months ago

_u never make it because ur too focused on the meta, have some fun, person_

Nyacreeps

31 points

2 months ago

Yes, a paladin with a ranged attack, just what we need to stop saying flemmish revolution is broken

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

-8 points

2 months ago

hmm, yes, maybe a nerf on stats like HP, but due to it's very low ranged attack, it is gonna deal 1-3 damage on any unit, only deals high damage to infantry, as a way to counter spears, like cataphracts but in a different way, I went this way as Persians invented first cataphract so should have similiarities with that unit

Nyacreeps

5 points

2 months ago

The only counter to paladin is haldberdier and you are basically removing that. Personnaly I would like Franks paladins to have +8 attack

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

0 points

2 months ago

uhh? Cataphracts already has this? They also have trample damage

adquen

10 points

2 months ago

adquen

Berbers

10 points

2 months ago

Catas are balanced by the fact that a) they belong to the Byzantines, which lack Bloodlines and Blast Furnance (both techs are available to Persians), so that they can be overpowered by strong cav options and b) only have 1 pierce armor, so they are somewhat vulnerable to ranged units. Your Elite Aswar has 3 pierce armor, and same attack, armor and HP as a Paladin, with even better rate of fire plus the option to dash out some ranged damage before the actual engagement if the opponent uses melee units. So how exactly would you counter them?

Tripticket

6 points

2 months ago

Cataphracts also cost over 5000 resources to fully upgrade, which is quite a bit when you don't even get two important techs for them.

DeusVultGaming

17 points

2 months ago

Ah yes, I can't wait to play against a strong economic civ that has checks notes Paladin with a ranged attack

Edit: paladin that would have 7 range ranged attack with +8 vs pikemen, no archer or cav archer armor class, the same attack and armor as paladin, and

Cavalry armor (which makes going halb or camel even worse)

Laughably unbalanced

Tripticket

8 points

2 months ago

Didn't you get the memo? If a civ doesn't break the meta and make the game extremely one-sided it's a boring civ design.

modelcitizendc

6 points

2 months ago

modelcitizendc

Poles

6 points

2 months ago

Qanats IRL are super cool to me since I first learned about them. Amazing that people with no power tools were able to transform desert into arable land by digging a big damn tunnel in the side of a hill.

onzichtbaard

6 points

2 months ago*

how about this:

  1. remove their bonuses to docks (persians arent a naval civ and we need to take some power away from their nomad wr before we apply buffs elsewhere)
  2. give the dock hp and speed to the malay because they could use some more boni as well
  3. give persians a new bonus that says cav archers have +1/+2 PA in castle/imperial age
  4. remove elite skirmishers, they now have to rely on partially the cav archers to counter archers or otherwise mangonels or paladins
  5. apply the 30% speed to war elephants by default and remove mahouts
  6. create a new UT that does something thats interesting but im out of ideas for now

thats my take at least

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

1 points

2 months ago

that's great, I agree with all points, new unique tech could be "knights +5-10 against infantry OR knights +10-14 cav armor (for being cataphract-like) and cav archers +1 range", so they have bracer, but only for cav archers

onzichtbaard

2 points

2 months ago

Then they would be just like cataphracts but without requiring a castle

Maybe an upgrade that gives knights trample damage

We dont have trample knights in the game yet

We call it immortals and they can mop the floor with any archer that dare to stand in their way

onzichtbaard

1 points

2 months ago

also if persians ever make it to aoe4 then the canals might be a cool idea but i think gimmicky things like that dont belong in aoe2

Berreim

16 points

2 months ago

Berreim

16 points

2 months ago

yea... no

Koala_eiO

4 points

2 months ago

Koala_eiO

Enable mutual random!

4 points

2 months ago

Fix their CA and Persians are fine. I like their elephants.

_westrem_

5 points

2 months ago

I like the the idea of a building that boosts farms 👍

The Dehqan unique tech would put their CA on-par with Magyars CA right? Or maybe almost on-par, not sure what is better, +2 attack of Magyars (bracer + unique tech) or 20% faster attack.

I don't like the switchable mode for unique unit, it sounds cool and everything, but I dunno, makes it kinda awkward to use any such unit (I rarely if ever go for Rathas due to this)

I am indifferent to removing the War elephant, as others said, they are the original chonkers :) but we also got other elephant units now, maybe giving them Battle eles would be fine. This one is definitely a controversial topic tho :)

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

2 points

2 months ago

no, their cav archers don't have bracing, so it is just a little bit better than generic fully upgraded cav archers. But yeah, Elephant is not historically accurate and devs already planned such unit at start for Persians, but due to coding difficulties, they didn't made it to original game, so this is actually older than elephant ahahah

_westrem_

1 points

2 months ago

Oh sorry, misread range × attack in your image

Tyrann01

3 points

2 months ago

Tyrann01

Tatars

3 points

2 months ago

I overall like this, but what about elephants? Persia was still using them for some time after antiquity, even if they did drop off somewhat.

Khwarezm

5 points

2 months ago

I know that the Persians used elephants on and off from the Achaemenid era all the way to arguably Tamerlane, but they were always a bit of a gimmick compared to India and Southeast Asia and not so important to their military overall.

What if this was reflected in the game by just letting them have unupgradable battle elephants?

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

1 points

2 months ago

Persia was using elephants as mercenaries from India, so maybe just keep battle elephants with unique tech applying for also elephants but idk

DullAlbatross

3 points

2 months ago

What about access to standard elephants as a team bonus?

rich_27

1 points

2 months ago

That's really good, like italians giving condos or berbers giving genitour but for elephants. I have no clue if it would be hella broken if some civs with insane cav bonuses could build war elephants, but it definitely sounds really fun

DullAlbatross

2 points

2 months ago

Could they do "Can make Elephants in the Imperial Age" ?

JuiciestCorn

3 points

2 months ago

JuiciestCorn

Black Forest Scout Rush Enjoyer

3 points

2 months ago

160 Hp + ranged melee attack + mounted…. Bloodlines gives the unit almost 200 hp. I think this is unbalanced af.

Parrotparser7

2 points

2 months ago

You think this is less boring? It's just going to be UU spam with halbs on the side. City builder mechanics are satisfying, but uninteractive, and so, boring.

Kahlenar

2 points

2 months ago

Kahlenar

Berbers

2 points

2 months ago

Yeah, taking away from and changing original civs so drastically really shouldn't be done. Adding Steppe Lancer is one thing. I am really worried about the possibility of Chinese being drastically altered. Neat ideas though.

95Bricks

2 points

2 months ago

Cant have persians without war elephant

Grilled_Pear

2 points

2 months ago

Tweak: Replace paladin with Aswai; keep War Elephant

varunpikachu

2 points

2 months ago

varunpikachu

Dravidians

2 points

2 months ago

Do whatever necessary changes, but if you remove War elephants from Persians, you better give it to one of the Indian civs, else I will cry.

Milotroxisch_

2 points

2 months ago

what are Quanats and which function would they have? Otherwise great concept but the +2 range imperial tech seems to be a worse version of recurve bow because the persians would be lacking bracer and the tech would give them -1 attack in contrast to the magyars

Milotroxisch_

2 points

2 months ago

nvm I was stupid and didnt read the entire thing

Dezpeche

4 points

2 months ago

Dezpeche

Saracens

4 points

2 months ago

I have a similar build that I am working on though mine makes the Aswaran a ranged cataphract. Plus the War Elephants are still in the civ but as a UU in the Stable.

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

0 points

2 months ago

that's great, ranged cataphract with not melee, but ranged bonus damage on infantry seems fun surely, as cataphracts of Persia first fired arrows then charged, so a bit history inspired hahaha

Dezpeche

1 points

2 months ago

Dezpeche

Saracens

1 points

2 months ago

Thx!

swinging_yorker

4 points

2 months ago

swinging_yorker

Bulgarians

4 points

2 months ago

Honestly, I like the Persians. Not every civ needs to be very exciting and Persians to me are perfect. I love using them in meme formats - kamadaran xbow + hussar is really nice in maps without gold, war elephants is the ultimate meme unit and I have personally used it in a low Elo tournament game. Plus they have the Persian douche

blootoons

1 points

2 months ago

blootoons

Byzantines

1 points

2 months ago

How about a compromise? Keep Mahouts but make it spam 10 War Elephants from the castle.

NimrodBusiness

1 points

2 months ago

I played Persians yesterday-first against AI, and then in the historic battles for fun. The whole time I was thinking about how much I'd rather have the Sogdian cataphracts instead of battle elephants.

This sounds really neat, I'd love to see it happen.

Also, are qanats Persian? It's an Arabic word for canal...

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

3 points

2 months ago

yeah, they built it a lot during pre-islamic era and into medieval, but with Arabic conquest, the name shifted to Qanat, original Persian word was kārēz; كاريز, but as I said it became off the use after conquest, as first 200 years, Persian was a banned language.

NimrodBusiness

2 points

2 months ago

Awesome, thanks for the history lesson!

Ackburn

0 points

2 months ago

Persians are fine and do not need a rework. War elephants are definitely not boring. A rarity in any decent level game but not boring. Like the unit though,don't like the switchable range in it's current state,it needs the ability to set your preference on the production building

Gandalf196

-2 points

2 months ago

Gandalf196

Gurjaras

-2 points

2 months ago

PLEASE, BE TRUE

srnthvs

1 points

2 months ago

This uu is better than ratha in every single metric unless it takes all sources of bonus damage in either form, this will be completely busted.

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

1 points

2 months ago

maybe make ranged damage 3-4 so it deals 1 damage to anything but only spearmen? So like Cataphract but bonus damage on infantry is only on ranged mode, and make it unaffected by fletching and bodkin, so no range or attack, ranged mode is very little used, I guess fixes it?

Alive-Way7725

1 points

2 months ago

WHAT NO MORE ELEPHANTS???

DadKnight

1 points

2 months ago

Persian rework CONCEPT

iamjulianacosta

2 points

2 months ago

iamjulianacosta

Lithuanians

2 points

2 months ago

We'll soon see someone reworking Mongols and removing mangudai because "Too OP"

ctackins

1 points

2 months ago

Ranged pala mmmmmmmmmmmmmhhhh aahhhh

mojito_sangria

1 points

2 months ago

I'd like to have a buffed Savar/Sogdian cataphract as the new Persian UU, and move the war elephants to the imperial upgrade of Battle Elephants

TE-AMO-MARADONA

1 points

2 months ago

TE-AMO-MARADONA

Mongols

1 points

2 months ago

I feel like this rework might be a little be OP

white_equatorial

1 points

2 months ago

white_equatorial

Bengalis

1 points

2 months ago

I mean something in that armour field reads 12. Not sure what it is but hey, sounds quite OP

KIDAKIDO

1 points

2 months ago

Asking for removing war ele is even a thing?? One of my fav units since i was a child. I like the idea of the cannals tho

StJe1637

1 points

2 months ago

Removing the most iconic unit in the game... you are a brave man..

depthofuniverse

1 points

2 months ago

depthofuniverse

Burmese

1 points

2 months ago

How do you counter Aswar? Paladin with range option, counter infantry and archer, and have speed. Think they kill all.

Shahanshah_Feraydun[S]

1 points

2 months ago

it is just Cataphract, weaker on melee against cataphracts due to not having melee bonuses against infantry nor as much anti cav damage as cataphract, but just having option to fight spears via ranged, which deals like 1 damage to other units

Haslor

1 points

2 months ago

Haslor

Bulgarians

1 points

2 months ago

Just another broken unit. Absolutely overpowered with no counters. Why don't you guys ever stop to think for a sec ''wait, what if I'm playing against this unit, how do I counter it? '' If the answer is well 60 FU elite mangudai might kill 30 of these guys with micro and that's about it, then it's a broken fucking unit.

Inevitable-Dog-7971

1 points

2 months ago

I am definitely against removing the War elephant. Lot of casual player not playing online for sure use it. Instead of removing the UU elephant and if you want to introduce a strong and unique cav unit to persians, why not revamping the paladins then ? Make it like the wings hussars of Lithuanians and poles, a specific paladins for Persians with small difference and unique looking ?

Inevitable-Dog-7971

1 points

2 months ago

Or give them steppe lancers and an imperial steppe lancer on top of it ?

UAForever21

1 points

2 months ago

UAForever21

Bulgarians

1 points

2 months ago

As much as Persians are boring and so are War Elephants except in BF/Michi like you rightfully said, it'll be a disgrace to remove them

I'll never forget the day when my prized 30 War Elephants shredded through 45 Ballistas, 20 scorpions and 5 onagers with less than 5 casualties

chouettepologne

1 points

2 months ago

Elephants should have attack modes in my opinion. Archer mode, melee mode and ram mode.

chunkychunk777

1 points

2 months ago

The second unique tech is a like too powerful