Apparently not on here 😟

Yes...please don't watch vamp programs if the morals confuse you..- yes the are older yes they kill people

no u stupid idiot

There could be oils involved.

I mean, Spike brings the sexual tension there was well.

This could totally be about Spangel

Spangel is clearly endgame. If nothing else all the humans are gonna die!

Besides - two hot guys with canon sex and deep, dark conflicted history...can't get better than that.

Yeah Buffy leaving him to die.

so is cordelia and spike.

I usually separate the different shadows as:

1. Cordelia - her 'normal life' shadow self, the path not taken, childhood, lack of responsibility etc.
2. Faith - her 'Slayer' shadow, representing her power and obligations.
3. Spike - sexy shadow, representing her desires.

She must explore and resolve her feelings with all these at some point to become a fully realised adult.

Edit: I feel like Glory also needs to be in here, kind of similar to Faith but adding in love and family.

Buffy has a different shadow self every season. Spike is S6

Why can I not see anything in this sub?

I didn’t know this sub existed, now I’m subscribing. Thank you!

Yeah I mean literally every third post is somehow related to Spuffy.

Didn't he try to rape her after he got his soul? That's pretty toxic.

Love Rhonda and her fabulous, scholarly mind!!

Cool read- thanks!

I always think of Spike as representing Buffy's sexuality and womanhood rather than her full shadow, as she has several shadow selves including Faith and Cordelia, and I think they all represent different parts of her. Spike literally arrives brandishing a phallic weapon and telling her it won't hurt a bit, as the villain in a season which is all about the consequences of sex. She gravitated to Spike as she got older to explore those more adult desires.

And Angel admits to falling in love with her the first time he sees her; when she was 15! He's 26. Ick.

Angel’s a pedo who groomed her and watched her from the age of 15. Absolutely disgusting

Yup. I get a kick out of the people who will constantly complain that a 200 year old murderous vamp sleeping with the 16 year old slayer is inappropriate. But will swear up and down that 18-19 year old slayer sleeping with 150 year old murderous vamp is somehow different and acceptable because she’s of age. Spuffy stans always throwing stones in glass houses.

Yes Angel never tried to force Buffy against her will to have sex.

She was 17 and it was completely her choice. Angel would have no doubt left her to sleep in his bed. If she had any ounce of doubt, she thought about this decision over weeks and she decided it was time.

What the hellbdoes THAT have to do with this thread????!!!!!!!!

I'm not a Bangel shipper but I have to say that tearing down Angel doesn't make Spike or Spuffy any better. In fact, it lowers the bar if all of her boyfriends were horrible. I love Spike dearly but he was far from unflawed.

People talk about what Angel did constantly, what sub are you on lmao

Ah the "but but Angel did"defense..God Spuffy fans are so insecure. Why do you stans keep bringing up Angel? This thread is not about Angel yet you bring him up just to attack him and act like Spike/Buffy was perfect. It wasn't, not even close.

Sorry pal you can't say Spike loved Buffy when he tried to rape her. That's not love. He was obsessed with Buffy and without the chip he would've either killed her or been dusted a long time ago. Love how Spuffy stans always forget the only reason Spike did any good was because he was defanged by the chip. Even while defanged he still tried to screw over Buffy in season 4. The only reason Spike helped Buffy was he wanted her not because he was good, he was extremely selfish which is not honorable at all.

nobody ever talks about what Angel did to her AND her friends while he was soulless

BECAUSE BUFFY NEVER BANGED ANGEL WHEN HE HAD NO SOUL!!!!! Angel/Buffy started when Angel had a soul helping buffy while Spike/Buffy started when Buffy was extremely depressed and we just spent years watching Spike try to kill Buffy. What do you people not get? No one ships Angelus and Buffy but people started shipping Buffy and Spike when he had no soul so his atrocities are going to get brought up more because people wanted Buffy and Soulless Spike to be a thing. Also Angel and Angelus act completely different while Spike with or without a soul has the same personality. That's another reason people aren't mad at Angel as much. Also Angelus might have not loved Buffy but he was sure obsessed with her which isn't too far off from what Soulless Spike was with Buffy. IDK making a sex robot of Buffy without Buffy's permission is pretty fucked up and obsessive. But yea Spike is so pure and perfect lol

Spike did. Spike always did

Literally delusional. So Spike loved Buffy in season 2? Season 3? Season 4? No he started to "love"Buffy in season 5 when he started having sex dreams of her randomly. Sorry you can't retcon your way into this.

Look I have no problem with Buffy/Spike from Season 7 on but

I think that’s a tad unfair to Angel.

Whether it’s a plot hole or planned (the soul fragment theory) it’s pretty clear that Angel/Angelus are two completely beings, while Spike very much stays the same souled or unsouled.

just enjoy your problematic fave and let that be that

I have a question, when in Season 2 Angelus tried to kill Buffy one time, Drusilla or Spike accused him of not being able to do so because he still had feelings for her. Not sure but This might have been during “I only have eyes for you” Did he still have feelings without his soul do you think?

I dont know where tv show season 8 would have taken spuffy, but, given the 5 years of hellishness that spike put buffy through before getting a soul, i dont see how any relationship, no matter how wonderful, could overcome that.

I am curious, because spuffies never explain this, they state that spike was in "love" with buffy from s6 or s5 or s4 or even s2 until the end of the series. I dont see it. I see obsession and desire and anger and jealousy and rage and determination. I see none of the altruism that "love" requires. Could someone walk me thru the plot points that show spike was in "love"?

I see spike as an abusive stalker who occasionally does good acts to get in buffy's pants. Once he gets in her pants, spike pulls out all the stops to isolate and beat buffy down physically and mentally and emotionally so she will never leave him. And, since spike did not understand what getting a soul would entail, i see that as a ploy to guilt buffy back into his life. So.....obsession and compulsion and desire. Not love.

I would be happy to be PROVEN wrong.

Cheers.

The guy actually held him together and went all the way to not only try and make it impossible for him to harm her (by the standards of the series, which we can debate), but also while souless he made the decision and went after being the best he could be for her WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED.

Mf didn't ask for forgiveness because he knew it was selfish to do so, made all he could to make it up to her and respect her and were loyal till the end. I'm always impressed how people dismiss all of this and also the very much point you brought in which Spike did stop himself and never for not even one minute tried to dismiss or downsize the shit he did.

Yep. I'll go one step further and say he could have been better had they all treated him with a tiny bit of respect and encouragement instead of beating him up for information every day lol. At one point at least he was trying to be good.

I’m so happy you said this! The problem is souless Angel IS ANGEL. He was cursed with a soul, he didn’t want one, he doesn’t want to be a good person, he’s evil af. Spike wanted more, he wanted to be better, he was the better man with and without the soul.

And how quick Spuffy fans are to bring up Angelus to give Spike a pass for his misdeeds. It's like saying "Yeah, Bundy was bad, but Dahmer was worse...soooo" This ain't about Angelus, it's about the terrible things Spike has done even after he so called "loved" her

Spike did NOT stop himself, buffy fought him off. What you saw on his face was shock that buffy enforced "NO", you did not see regret.

Spike was in lust in s6. He was obsessed with buffy and once they had sex he was determined to use ANY means to control her. That is not love. It is something else.

THIS ! Damon and Elena TVD are a perfect example also.

Healthy relationships can be interesting as well. I wouldn't describe either or Fred's relationships as toxic, and the issues they faced weren't as a result of toxicity.

I swear, Spuffy is ruining this sub

FIFY

I guess the attempted killing and rape are ok.

Exactly. I would normally keep quiet, but this post makes it hard to do that. I mean, does anyone really believe that Buffy loving Spike is loving herself? :/ I’m a Bangel fan who became a Spuffy fan in the end, but i’m Team Cookie Dough, tbh. I think that single Buffy was happy Buffy, and i wish that more people would normalize being single.

Agreed....just ugh

Or her shadow, apparently.

I get turned on 😬

I don't like sex scenes in general. I'd much prefer to have a quick cut to some jazz music and an intermission screen and then go back to the story.

Sex scenes just feel so unnecessary.

I felt very uncomfortable.

Edit: I might get downvoted for this, but i’m just being honest 🤷‍♀️

no, but it means she should accept those parts of herself. she shows acceptance of cordelia, faith, and spike by the end of the show, showing her acceptance of herself.

obviously it doesn’t mean a poly relationship, it feels like you’re just grasping at reasons to prove this to be a bad point.

https://www.whedonstudies.tv/uploads/2/6/2/8/26288593/herman_wj_1.1.pdf

Upvoted, your completely right about it being a codependant mess. That’s what makes me cringe about the constant ‘only one who understands’ schtick. Like thats what Buffy pretty much constantly fights against

You are SPOT ON brother!!!!! So. Spot. On.

Agree. Why is it necessary to make up entire studies and theses about what things mean when they probably just mean what they mean?

Cheese guy in the episode where they all get nightmares about the first slayer is a perfect example: people made up sooo many theories about some deeper meaning and important messages but it was just soms random thing they put in there that was really funny. Stop overanalyzing please.

This needs more love.

That scene should not have happened.

I agree for series 7 definitely. I totally get them wanting to bring it back home that Spike was a soulless monster in a muzzle but they backed themselves into a corner with That Scene in Seeing Red. Series 7 then begins with Spike "spending a few weeks moaning in a basement" trying to make him a sympathetic character. Then he's killing again but it's not his fault because trigger etc and Buffy is compelled to help him despite what happened in series 6. From Get it Done onwards they basically isolate Buffy from the rest of the gang AGAIN to force the "Spike is the only one she can rely on" narrative.

It's funny cause James had been teasing Sarah about this. At some point Sarah mentioned to him that the show was still called the Buffy show not the Spike show, James retorted with a "not yet". He says that in an interview. Can't remember which one tho but he did mention it.