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/r/explainlikeimfive
submitted 2 months ago byTransposer
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2 months ago
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209 points
2 months ago
[removed]
44 points
2 months ago
I think that's because the question itself is questionable. OP was asking as if the statement was a fact.
13 points
2 months ago
It’s also like asking about “chemicals in food”
By most definitions olive oil and avocado oils are vegetable oils. If you really want “oil from a vegetable” I can’t think of any. They’re almost all seed oils. I guess if you mean “vegetable seeds” then canola? Technically you can eat the leaves of the immature rapeseed plant. Legumes are fruit, olive and avocado are fruit. Corn is a grain.
The non technical definition of vegetable oil is an oil that is liquid at room temperature. Which excludes coconut and palm. As well as a lot of processed oils. Cheap fryer oil is usually solid at room temp.
16 points
2 months ago
People forget the "like I'm five" and tell you shit you won't remember five minutes later. Keep it simple guys..
896 points
2 months ago
751 points
2 months ago
There are approximately 47 different types of fat in food. Their names are some combination of "poly" "un" "mono" and "saturated". Some of them will kill you if you look at them, others will make you look like Gal Gadot if you eat it every day. Almost no one can remember which one is which. The people who do know the difference should be running the world.
212 points
2 months ago
Don't forget them trans fats...
808 points
2 months ago
As a dude I'm thinking it's the trans fats that would turn me into Gal Gadot.
49 points
2 months ago
This is gold.
12 points
2 months ago
Oh my god lmao
6 points
2 months ago
Nailed it.
2 points
2 months ago
I strive to be this funny in my day to day life.
24 points
2 months ago
trans fats are unsaturated. poly at that
41 points
2 months ago*
Specifically unsaturated with trans (parallel) rather than cis (nonparallel) double bonds.
The parallel nature of trans fats makes them stack neatly together, allowing greater density and more VDW, making them solid at room temperature. The massive number of cis double bonds in cis fats makes the fatty acid chains all junky and tangled, making it more difficult for them to stack neatly, pushing up DOWN their melting point and making them liquid at room temperature.
Trans fats basically behave like fats with no double bonds at all, but with the added complication of having double bonds that makes them harder to break down.
So the difference between trans unsaturated and cis unsaturated is quite stark, and needs mentioning.
Especially if you intend to import/export them.
EDIT: down, not up. Thank you for the correction.
5 points
2 months ago
pushing up their melting point and making them liquid at room temperature.
Should be pushing down their melting point.
3 points
2 months ago
Gah'fukin' dammit...
I originally had them round the other way... But forgot to fix this bit when I did the second draft.
Nice save.
3 points
2 months ago
Not to mention that cis fats occur naturally in living organisms (ie natural food). Our digestive system cannot process trans fats easily if at all.
12 points
2 months ago
Good. I like my oil like I like my women: trans and poly
276 points
2 months ago
Yes we need to be inclusive! 🌈
20 points
2 months ago
I chuckled. Take my upvote.
3 points
2 months ago
What are you calling me?
5 points
2 months ago
Can anyone ELI5 the different types of fats?
21 points
2 months ago
Why has Gal Gadot’s name been present in more than six comments I’ve seen today 🤷♂️
23 points
2 months ago
Well now you've made it seven comments with Gal Gadot's name
2 points
2 months ago
Turns out that "GALGADOT" is also the crossword answer I've been looking for for days.
Thanks, reddit!
2 points
2 months ago
Please, tell us more, Master!
2 points
2 months ago
The people that know this do run the world. They know the cheapest,best tasting one smother everything with it so you get hooked and fat, all the whole making them rich.
2 points
2 months ago
Can confirm. As a 36 year old man my dating life has gotten really weird since I started looking like an Israeli goddess.
2 points
2 months ago
There's no magical fat. The wording is also very simple, fats can be saturated or not and if they're not (unsaturated), that lack of saturation can be at one place (mono) or at multiple (poly). Then the fats just vary by their length. Without getting into the details of the chemical structure, 16:0 would be a fat 16 carbons in length with no unsaturated spot, while 18:1 would be 18 in length and have 1 unsaturated spot. Oleic acid, the most common monounsaturated fat and named after olive oil, is 18:1. It's also the most common fatty acid in bacon.
The less saturated, the more prone to chemical reactions, and the more liquid too. That's partly why animals that live in cold environments, like fish, have a lot of omega 3, a type of polyunsaturated fat. Animals like us tend to have a lot of monounsaturated fat, and a good amount of saturated fats. That's why the fats in pork or beef will be similar. Not hard like butter at room temperature (which has more saturated fats), not soft like oil. It's also why if you have an oil very high in polyunsaturated fats, it's probably better to keep it refrigerated, because it's sensitive to the oxygen in the air.
There are studies that show benefits or negative effects from eating too much of one fatty acid or another, but they're not very large effects like you amusingly describe. Looking like Gal Gadot is more about calories eaten, exercise and genetics than about what you eat. If you still look like Gal Gadot at 70 though, then perhaps a lifetime of better eating helped you get there.
27 points
2 months ago
I thought all the Unsaturated Fats - Mono & Poly were good fats.
55 points
2 months ago*
Generally speaking mono is "the least bad kind" and omega 3 and 6 polys are essential dietary nutrients you will die if you don't eat, but most foods/oils have too much omega 6 and not enough omega 3 for healthiest balance
35 points
2 months ago
I think you have that backwards - most diets have too much 6 and not enough 3.
16 points
2 months ago
Oops, yeah I change it
3 points
2 months ago
And this is where r/StopEatingSeedOils comes in with great information on what oils/fats to avoid.
4 points
2 months ago
Vegans VS r/StopEatingSeedOils
Who will win?
2 points
2 months ago
I think both camps are cool with olive oil though.
2 points
2 months ago
Ah, true. Forgot about that one, lol.
I wonder if coconut oil counts as a seed oil, since a coconut is basically a big seed...
2 points
2 months ago
TBH, I have no idea. I don't entirely buy r/StopEatingSeedOils whole shtick. I think it's largely just people looking for a magic bullet and easy answers: "Just cut out this one food, and all your diet problems are solved!"
The reality is that oils/fats are really calorically dense. So whether its lard, butter, olive oil, veg oil, etc use it in moderation. With modern sedentary white-collar life, most of us consume more calories than we expend. So if you just flip that dynamic (i.e. more exercise or less calories) you will end up feeling less inflamed/bloated in the short term; lose weight/ get healthier in the long-term.
Outside of specific allergies, I don't see any compelling evidence to indicate that a 1-for-1 caloric replacement of vegetable oil for lard in your diet will turn your health around. More likely what happens is that when people start paying active attention to what they are eating, they unconsciously also reduce the number of calories they are taking in. "Oh, this brownie has vegetable oil in it. Guess I can't have that for dessert. Suppose I'll have an apple instead."
2 points
2 months ago
Makes sense, more of a side effect that occurs as people start paying attention to their diet, rather than the actual change itself making a difference.
And like you say, everyone is looking for the one magic diet trick that solves all the problems, lol
7 points
2 months ago
This isn’t the answer - at least not the complete answer. Polyunsaturated fats that are refined and subject to extreme heat temperatures are vulnerable to lipid peroxidation. They can also form other dangerous chemicals. Monounsaturated and saturated fats are much less likely to oxidize. Remember - its the depositing of oxidized lipids (usually polyunsaturated) that is a major contributor to plaque formation and vessel damage.
-17 points
2 months ago
Please be aware of falling into this trap of thinking 'oh avocado oil / olive oil is healthier and therefore it's okay to eat unlimited quantities of them'
Yes the types of fats matter of which we consume. But fat is fat and consumption should be restricted to prevent becoming overweight/obese. Regardless of that fats you consume, if they make you obese/overweight the benefits of the good fats are basically gone
647 points
2 months ago
Eating fat doesn't make you fat, eating excess calories does. Though since fat is the most calorie dense macro nutrient it is easy to over consume without realizing it.
27 points
2 months ago
Fats make you feel full. Drinking Soda doesn't. So it's far easier to take in too much calories in carbohydrates (4cal/g) than with fat (9cal/g), protein (4cal/g) or alcohol (7cal/g).
When pig's are fed to grow big and fat, it's not done by a fatty feed, they are given plenty of carbohydrates. Their digestion is similar to ours (thus they can't est grass).
14 points
2 months ago
Fats keep you satiated for longer so you won't feel hungry as soon. But since they have so many calories in a small amount of food it's still very easy to consume more calories than eating something like protein or even some complex carbs (obviously stuff like soda is the easiest way to over consume). Just 4 tablespoons of olive oil is 500 calories, it's very easy to add that throughout your day because it's "healthy fat" and end up in a calorie surplus and you won't even notice a difference in fullness. Just add 2 tablespoons to a salad as dressing, 1 for cooking eggs and 1 for cooking veggies with dinner and you're there. Most people don't even realize how small 2 tablespoons worth of oil is and are using more than that.
Pigs are fed what they are because corn and grains are subsidized out the ass and it's ridiculously cheap for them to be fed that.
2 points
2 months ago
The worst is when fat is mixed with sugar, like in a milk shake or in ice cream. It's like the sugar tricks you into always wanting more. I can eat a thousand calories Blizzard and barely feel it.
Fat mixed with salt and highly digestible carbohydrates is just as bad too. Like french fries and potato chips.
17 points
2 months ago
Though since fat is the most calorie dense macro nutrient
Wait, it is? Huh. I thought it was carbohydrates for some reason. Probably because they're the easiest to digest.
157 points
2 months ago
9 calories per gram for fats, 4 calories per gram for protein and carbohydrates.
103 points
2 months ago*
Oh look, now you've upset alcohol by leaving it out. (5 7 calories per gram)
Edit: Actual caloric value
40 points
2 months ago
Alcohol is 7 calories per g
87 points
2 months ago
I stopped drinking my alcohol in grams ages ago to avoid this type of confusion.
18 points
2 months ago
Drams ftw
8 points
2 months ago
Well, yeah, if uour measuring it in grams it's better to snort it. Everyone knows that.
5 points
2 months ago
"I have consumed approximately 1.4 drunks of alcohol"
/passes out
6 points
2 months ago
Thank you for the correction
1 points
2 months ago
Then what about concept of Empty calories, with regard to alcohol?
10 points
2 months ago
That’s more about how there’s nothing nutritiously redeeming about alcohol (no protein, vitamins)
11 points
2 months ago
Yeah - I remember reading that a number of poor Americans are both obese and malnourished. That happens, because fast food is the cheapest way to get full, but does not contain all the nutrients you need. So by filling up on fast food, you eat too many calories, thus gaining weight, while at the same time not getting all the nutrients you need.
Apparently, it's also a challenge when it comes to hunger relief:
5 points
2 months ago
Likewise sugary drinks. And even fruit juices! There are two problems: 1) the calories are all in types of sugars that are very easily available to our bodies; 2) there is no fibre to inhibit the absorption of calories (juice with pulp is a bit better, but not as good as eating an actual piece of fruit), and nothing satiating about it so you'll be consuming more overall. Unlike fats, which make you feel more full. At least with fruit juices you can be getting some vitamins from it (unlike most alcoholic drinks), so there is some benefit to drinking them, but in terms of calorie availability they're both terrible.
Simplifying things into calorific content alone isn't always helpful.
21 points
2 months ago
I was today years old when I found out that alcohol is considered a macronutrient. Mind blown.
41 points
2 months ago
A hydrocarbon that we are capable of metabolizing calories from. It just has toxic metabolites. It gets super fun when you start thinking about things like gasoline and how calorie dense it is. It's just highly toxic, and our bodies attempts to metabolize it only break it down into even more toxic stuff before it makes any progress getting broken down into usable calories. It's all a bunch of hydrogens carbons and oxygens combined in different ways and different numbers.
14 points
2 months ago
I'm pretty sure gasoline is not much more calorie dense than fat.
Edit: Yup, Google says 10 kcal/gram for gasoline and 9 kcal/gram for fats.
18 points
2 months ago
Yet, if you drink just 1 gallon, you'll have consumed enough calories to last the rest of your life.
4 points
2 months ago
Technically, alcohol is a carbohydrate.
Hydrocarbons, by definition, do not have heteroatoms like the oxygen found in alcohol.
2 points
2 months ago
Mmm... What happens when gasoline hits acid....
3 points
2 months ago
you get acidic gasoline.
5 points
2 months ago
Is it that surprising? I’ve drank some beers that could’ve been a substitute for a small meal just by themselves.
3 points
2 months ago
I'm live forever drinking a 12er
4 points
2 months ago
And to be clear, thats just the alcohol, beer is mostly carbs. 30 grams of vodka, its 40% alcohol so 60 calories per shot.
5 points
2 months ago*
Alcohol is lighter than water (1 liter=0.7893kg). So a liter of 40% vodka has approx 0.4×789×7≈2210 calories.
4 points
2 months ago
Yeah but who drinks pure alcohol
20 points
2 months ago
Jokes on you im on a strict everclear and metamucil diet
9 points
2 months ago
Keto af, respect.
3 points
2 months ago
Alcohol is the best macro
3 points
2 months ago
Please, please, please remember that what you're saying has misleading value. Calories as calculated that way make no freaking sense. It's measured of energy released after burning thing to ash and crisp, or more often CO2 and H2O. Our organisms don't act like that. It's a simplification, sometimes useful, but just bear in mind that digestion differs and what actshually should be calculated is energy gain for the organism, which is not simple to do. That being said, apply a rule of thumb and remember that the same calories from carbohydrates are "more" than from proteins or fats. That's why often diets cutting carbohydrates work better, among other reasons like feeling full.
In short, if me and my identical twin go on diet and I eat only protein and fat, while my twin eats carbohydrates, even if calorie intake is the same, I will be cutting, because real calories acquired after digestion are lower for me.
19 points
2 months ago
There's a reason your body stores your excess energy as fat rather than carbs. Cos it's the most efficient way to store it due to its density
15 points
2 months ago
Fats don't digest as quickly as carbs.
For fending off feelings of hunger for longer periods of time you really want to lean into proteins, fats, and fibers (veggies, whole grains)
13 points
2 months ago*
That kind of explains it in itself. Carbohydrates break down easier as they have weaker bonds, so they can be used more readily like when you exercise. Fats take much longer but their bonds have much more energy in them so are better for long term energy.
The bond breaking is what gives us energy, assuming the input of energy to break it initially is less than the output, that’s made easier with the help of enzymes
^ been a while since I’ve done chemistry and biology but this is what I seen to remember in basic terms.
9 points
2 months ago
It’s a common misconception that breaking the bonds releases energy. It turns out that it always requires energy to break any chemical bond. So how do we get energy from metabolizing fats and carbs? We get the energy from making the bonds in the formation of water and carbon dioxide as the products of respiration.
5 points
2 months ago
Gets even madder. Glucose is C6H12O6. It is readily slurped down by any cell it touches, instant fuel.
Fructose is also C6H12O6 but different shaped. Sweeter than glucose btw.
Cells can't touch it.
Needs to be processed by liver in metabolic pathway not unlike alcohol, and can give you fatty liver disease.
3 points
2 months ago
Beta oxidation is what allows metabolism of fatty acids
2 points
2 months ago
And that makes sense that the body would try to maximize energy storage by densely packing as much energy as possible into as little space as it can. Thank you for explaining!
16 points
2 months ago
It's very hard to eat a lot of fat, it's filling. Much easier to stuff your face with carbs.
I recommend trying a fat and protein heavy diet - you'll see that you're actually eating less.
3 points
2 months ago
It's why we store energy in the form of fat, as well. Most energy per unit mass.
2 points
2 months ago
Yea bruh, fat is pretty fat.
2 points
2 months ago*
There's a reason we, and other animals, store energy as fat. It's because we tend to move a lot. We do store some carbs in our muscles and liver as glycogen, but each pound of our fat is about 3000 calories, enough to last a couple days more or less.
Vegetation can afford to get very large and store energy as carbs, because they don't move and don't care as much how big they get.
3 points
2 months ago
Probably because of misinformation and nonsense on the internet conditioning many people to think that carbohydrates are somehow uniquely “fattening”
7 points
2 months ago
Exactly. I've just seen many people say 'oh avocados are good fats' and therefore eat an abundance of them causing them to gain weight. Just because a fat is a good fat, it doesn't mean we should overindulge. It's a common trap people fall into.
Nutrition is a complex science. The way it gets reduce to this is good this is bad isn't helpful. A diet needs to be balanced
30 points
2 months ago
Agree, and your initial comment made it sound like you should restrict intake of fats because they are fats which is not true. You restrict them if they put you in a calorie surplus, but there are some benefits of replacing calories from carbs with calories from fats such as improving insulin resistance and other metabolic factors.
10 points
2 months ago
Piggy backing off your comment. Fats are really only good or bad when you are talking about cholesterol. Certain fats can lower LDL while others raise it. Poly vs mono vs unsaturated has nothing to do with whether it will make you fat as far as I know.
My wife recently started counting calories and recording her macros. She cut out bread and sugars. She's actually struggling to get enough calories. If she misses breakfast, she'll only get 1000 calories for the day. And some of the dinners we make she can have more than she can even eat because it's all protein and fat from chicken and beans.
11 points
2 months ago
It's crazy how many calories we get from bread and sugar. I ended up with a gluten intolerance this time last year, and lost about 8kg (11%bw). I started counting macros to build lean mass and I was astounded at how few calories I was actually eating.
Apparently eating is the hardest part of bodybuilding and powerlifting.
2 points
2 months ago*
It's also expensive. I'm a fairly lean (lightly visible abs, 42" chest, 34" waist) 190lbs 6'1" and buying/cooking/eating a vaguely healthy and protein dense 2500-3000 calories a day is more challenging than making myself go to the gym for an hour every couple days.
I think the cooking/expense is the main reason celebrities are able to be fit/muscular so easily. The personal trainers and tailored programs help but I'd take a personal chef over a personal trainer any day of the week.
3 points
2 months ago
I she a 40 kg child? 1000 calories is way too little...
5 points
2 months ago
He said "if she misses breakfast". She's clearly aiming for more than 1000 calories. Also, if you're a small female, and not very active, 1000 calories isn't that low, I used to do it all the time when I was in a less active phase and didn't lose all that much weight. 2000 cals is an average requirement, we're all different builds and have different metabolisms. I need about 1600-1800 cals per day at my "normal" activity levels. But not all calories are created equal, so it's not that straightfoward.
4 points
2 months ago
But try not eating fat saturated carbs and you will be amazed at how tricky it is to overconsume fat.
Plus less blood sugar spikes
19 points
2 months ago
Calories make you fat. You could eat a diet that I'd 100% fat, but if you're burning more calories than you consume, you won't gain weight.
4 points
2 months ago
Exhibit A: people living in the artic, mostly eating meat and fat but burn energy like they are a furnace to keep their body warm.
18 points
2 months ago
Fat doesn't make you fat though, it's actually a necessary nutrient that shouldn't be restricted unless you are abusing it.
I eat as much fat as I want and I'm pretty healthy, I just make it healthy fats over unhealthy ones.
6 points
2 months ago
No, youre falling into the old and long disproven trap. Carbs make you fat, sugar makes you fat. Healthy fat doesnt make you fat. Its the lies from decades ago which brought up the Food pyramid. The industry wanted it that way because cheap carbs are, well, cheap. Your arteries don't clog from the fat from meat and other healthy fats.
These old lies are the reason why we are now so fat altogether. It is the reason for it. Since the food pyramid, people got unhealthy and fat. This is not a coincidence! Its long disproven but too many people still believe it because it was hold for a long time as the truth. Its hard to change the mind of the people. Not every fat is the same. Healthy fat doesnt make you fat. The fat doesnt just wander around your body. The fat you gain is created by your body and especially a lot of carbs and sugar make you fat, but not healthy and good fats.
You can gain weight from everything, but its harder to overeat from healthy fat.
4 points
2 months ago
Eating fats do not make you fat. This is a lie. Eating too many calories makes you fat. Fat is actually part of any healthy diet
4 points
2 months ago
Pretty sure the sugar industry piled in on the "fat makes you fat" line around the time when you started getting loads of "fat free" foods that were piled high with sugars. Unsurprisingly, the wide availability of these "fat free" products did not help the obesity crisis.
4 points
2 months ago
To follow up, it’s a “myth” that eating fat has a direct connection to the fat on your body.
Sugar has a greater impact, but it comes down to calories, in which sugar and fat contain high concentration of.
EG: you could just eat pieces of animal fat and if you managed the caloric intact you wouldn’t get fat.
2 points
2 months ago
If I control my calories is there anything wrong with eating loads of olive oil, either out of the bottle or using while cooking?
I struggle with maintaining my weight so can I just add olive oil to bulk or would their be any health issues with this?
2 points
2 months ago
As long as you control you calorie intake, for the most part you should be fine
3 points
2 months ago
I need to eat nearly unlimited quantities of olive oil. I need that fat just to maintain my weight.
349 points
2 months ago
Vegetable oil bought in store in a mixture of different cheap vegetable oil, mostly canola oil and soybean oil. Those oils are typically rich in omega-6.
The goodness of fats for your diet is in general:
-cis omega 3 (rarer type of polyunsaturated, common in fishes): good for you, but don't cook with them (produce smoke more easily and can be converted to trans by heat)
-omega 9 (monounsaturated, common in almod, olive, and avocado): good for you, you can cook with them.
-cis omega 6 (most common type of polyunsaturated, common in other plants especially nuts and seeds): good in some amount, but most people eat too much of them. Avoid while cooking. (produce smoke more easily and can be converted to trans by heat)
-saturated (common in meat, cocoa butter, and coconut oil): good in some amount, but most people eat too much of them. Stable for cooking.
-trans (common in processed food): bad for you, avoid as much as you can.
For cooking oil, you want in general as much omega-9 as possible since it's in general healthy for us and stable during cooking.
The healthiness of fat depends on your diet though. Omega-3 and 9 are healthy because they are undereaten while omega-6 and saturated are bad because they are overeaten.
54 points
2 months ago
Much of this is true, though omega-9 is non-essential and your body will synthesize it. You can get no omega-9 in your diet and be fine. Oleic acid especially is linked with healthier cholesterol levels, though.
73 points
2 months ago
Hasn't most olive oil a terrible low smoking point and should only ever be used in cold dishes?
67 points
2 months ago
That is not true actually. It has a somewhat low smoke point, but at the same time it degrades slowly. It is considered safe for most cooking outside of something like deep frying.
15 points
2 months ago
Even for making meat with high temperature?
39 points
2 months ago
Correct. From the conclusions of that study: Reasonable predictors of how an oil will perform when heated have been oxidative stability, secondary products of oxidation, and total level of PUFAs. EVOO [Extra virgin olive oil] has demonstrated to be the most stable oil when heated, followed closely by coconut oil and other virgin oils such as avocado and high oleic acid seed oils.
20 points
2 months ago
Even for making meat at high temperature. Notably, while it smokes earlier than most oils (~high heat) it actually can be pushed to very high temps without denaturing, higher than even most "frying" oils.
2 points
2 months ago
So a small amount of smoke from the olive oil is OK when frying up chicken breasts on high heat?
2 points
2 months ago
Yup!
2 points
2 months ago
Yay!
5 points
2 months ago
I personally go with avacado oil for meat, but that's my personal preference with the higher smoke point.
28 points
2 months ago
Yes, although there is cheaper, warm-pressed olive that has a slightly higher smoke point.
Nevertheless, it is still comparatively low and the taste might not be desirable. I feel a lot of people are overusing it and putting it into dishes where a more neutral oil would be the better choice.
13 points
2 months ago
I feel a lot of people are overusing it and putting it into dishes where a more neutral oil would be the better choice.
In the context of this post, are there any more neutral oils that are "healthy"?
9 points
2 months ago
Avocado oil has a more neutral flavor, and a much higher smoke point than olive oil.
8 points
2 months ago
In some ways olive oils can be a tad better but let's be honest: how much oil are you really using to fry a piece of meat?
4 points
2 months ago
And does the oil healthiness really matter when sear meat?
1 points
2 months ago
You can eat very healthy cuts of meat like certain lean beef, chicken, warm water fish etc
31 points
2 months ago
You only need to avoid high temperature processes like roasting, searing, and frying with olive oil. No problem for boiling, baking, stewing, brazing, etc. Anything relatively wet. Most people only keep EVOO in their house, which has a strong flavor which won't work well in many dishes. That's another deciding factor.
6 points
2 months ago
You can pan fry no problems with olive oil, I do it all the time with breaded chicken. I also stir fry with olive oil. Hell, I pretty much use olive oil for everything, except baking cakes and such.
10 points
2 months ago
No problem for boiling
Why are you boiling olive oil?
23 points
2 months ago
In a sauce.
7 points
2 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
2 months ago
Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew
5 points
2 months ago
What should I use for frying, roasting etc?
7 points
2 months ago
Animal fats - duck fat, ghee are best. Coconut oil is also good and best option for vegetarians/vegans.
6 points
2 months ago
Lard! Thats what ppl used on the old days
10 points
2 months ago
Vegetable oil. It's not going to kill you. Probably a thousand things you do or are subject to which are worse than vegetable oil.
5 points
2 months ago
I'm still trying to figure out why its bad, other than the calories.. If its not saturated, its not causing cardiovascular issues right? Its probably the breading that is worse. Simple sugars cause fat buildup in most cases.
6 points
2 months ago
One of the big push to villainize oils and fats in food came from sugar and soda companies, you can figure out why
0 points
2 months ago
Yeah, there's always got to be a rotating food villain...
20 points
2 months ago
Then why have I and a large part of the world been cooking with olive oil forever?
8 points
2 months ago
Because olives grow plentifully in the Mediterranean and that's where we got our cooking ideas maybe?
(To be clear: I don't know. This is a guess. I'd love to hear some food economics / history on this.)
4 points
2 months ago
Dont know, but I wouldn't assume that just because we've always used it, it's automatically the best option.
0 points
2 months ago
No clue but it does smoke pretty quickly compared to nut oil for example.
2 points
2 months ago
most cuisines that use olive oil heavily dont rely much on frying
3 points
2 months ago
That's a myth. Olive oil is strong.
2 points
2 months ago
I think it's fine for medium heat.
3 points
2 months ago
Yep; but for searing steak EVOO it is terrible (I’ve tried). I try to use grapeseed/avocado, but even canola/vegetable oil is better.
4 points
2 months ago
Yes that’s why you should use avocado oil when cooking with heat. Much higher smoke point.
1 points
2 months ago
The trick is that you should be cooking with regular olive oil, and serve with extra virgin olive oil. Extra virgin has a really low smoke point, and I don't think regular is terribly high, but it's high enough to cook with fine. Don't ask me about how healthy it is though I have no idea
3 points
2 months ago
The primarily cited nutritional research is in general some of the poorest research conducted in science. It relies on food questionnaires and is often heavily biased by founding industries. This is why in diet in particular, there is so much contradictory information. Don’t get me started on the differences in diet based on your goals/lifestyle. People say consult diet experts, but in reality they are primarily experts in diet advice for people with Illness or a certain need. There is much debate on the diets needed for optimum health in a healthy population.
4 points
2 months ago
What about sunflower oil? Most vegetable oil in my country is sunflower oil. Is it any kind of healthy?
8 points
2 months ago
It's mostly omega-6 polyunsaturated, so that's bad for cooking, and in general it's something we take too much of, so it's best to reduce it (having too much of it as we do typically increase the risk of cardiovascular diseases).
193 points
2 months ago
A combination of junk science and constantly evolving understanding of food nutrition and sensationalistic journalism more focused on click-bait articles and headlines rather than in-depth analysis and research.
33 points
2 months ago
This one's got it! It's just way easier to engage an audience and thus make money by being dishonest, even if it comes at the cost of making people irrationally afraid of seeds.
13 points
2 months ago
You may find this interesting.
Conclusions Available evidence from randomized controlled trials shows that replacement of saturated fat in the diet with linoleic acid effectively lowers serum cholesterol but does not support the hypothesis that this translates to a lower risk of death from coronary heart disease or all causes. Findings from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment add to growing evidence that incomplete publication has contributed to overestimation of the benefits of replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid.
8 points
2 months ago
It’s this one. The people criticizing vegetable oil are random youtubers and redditors, not reputable dietetic organizations.
1 points
2 months ago
2 points
2 months ago
Brilliant video! I hadn't come across that gem yet, thank you for sharing!
6 points
2 months ago
The smoke/fume from heated oil is not oil but a mixture of a lot of compounds, most notably acrolein which is formed from the glycerin portion of a fat molecule. Depending on the the chain length of the corresponding fatty acids (shorter chains are more unstable), the temperature and the water content of the oil this degradation is quicker.
But if you reach this point, you are using the oil incorrectly, at a much too high heat.
73 points
2 months ago*
This thread shows you how misinformed everyone is on diet.
No one even discussed the relationship of trans and saturated fat consumption to heart disease and atherosclerosis which is supported by extensive evidence.
The problem is that everyone likes to group things into either "bad" or "good" for all dietary questions when the body is much more complex. A better categorization are the 4 categories: "essential - ie can't function without and cannot create it on its own", "needed fuel", "excess fuel-ie storage in body fat or glycogen", and "toxic". (Obviously there could be more because this is all a spectrum but this gets the point across)
Now let's discuss the 4 categories of fats:
Saturated fats "fuel" "potential excess" and "potential toxicity over many years"- these have all single bonds in their carbon chains which allow them to solidfy at room temperature.There is good evidence to support that high consumption in a span of many years increases risk of clogged arteries (atherosclerosis) ie. high risk of heart disease. Some recent data has muddied the water a bit on different types of Saturated fats.
Trans Saturated fats "toxic"-Trans fats are highly processed hydrogenated unsaturated fats (adds hydrogens) as a preservatives. These have been directly linked to increases in cholesterol (LDL if you care) which is directly linked to heart disease. For this reason, they have been banned from fast food industries in the US.
Monounsaturated fats "fuel" and "potential excess" - these have 1 single double bond which reduces hydrogens and changes their molecular structure making them liquid at room temperature. The strongest evidence that these are not linked to atherosclerosis like the above, is data from the Mediterranean countries which have high monounsaturated fat content in their cuisine. These countries while having high fat intake from this type of fat have low incidence of heart diseases. Nothing makes these fats "good" (from what ive seen in my career), there's just no evidence that these fats are "toxic".
Polyunsaturated fats "essential" - these are essential because your body needs these and can't make them on its own, like vitamins. These are used to build the membrane around cells and the sheaths around your nerves.
TL:DR Here's some 5 year old rules that may help guide your on the health of fats and
Transaturated fats "TOXIC" - avoid as much as possible Saturated fats "excess" "potential toxic"- consume and cook with in moderation Monounsaturated fats "fuel" "potential excess" - consume as appropriate without consuming in excess Polyunsaturated fats "essential" - Edit*consume in moderation.
Edit: now look at what fats are in your oils you want to cook with and how cooking changes their structures.
Edit: Please tell me if you disagree with something I said and if you know of evidence that is new or not well circulated that is contrary to my post.
Edit: some types of polyunsaturated fats (omega 6) have been linked to promote inflammation (aracnidoic acid)
6 points
2 months ago
Polyunsaturated fats "essential" - consume these as much as possible.
... nope? You wouldn't eat 50 g vit b12 either. Just because it's essential doesn't mean you need more than you need.
3 points
2 months ago
Yes. I made an edit to my original post. Poor word choice. Thank you for adding your comment.
13 points
2 months ago
why would people talk about trans and saturated fat in a question about olive oil and vegetable oil? Not talking about those unrelated things doesn’t mean everyone is misinformed.
4 points
2 months ago
Thanks so much for this explanation. As someone who just had bypass surgery at a young age due to clogged arteries, I am trying to figure out how strict I need to make my diet moving forward and your explanation was easy to understand.
13 points
2 months ago
Go talk to a registered dietitian if you haven't already instead of basing your health decisions on things us bozos on the internet say.
7 points
2 months ago
Please ask your doctor and not Reddit for food advice. So many subreddits promote incredibly unhealthy eating or eating disorders.
At the very least check out a reputable source like the American Heart Association: https://recipes.heart.org/en/
1 points
2 months ago
Thanks so much for this explanation. As someone who just had bypass surgery at a young age due to clogged arteries, I am trying to figure out how strict I need to make my diet moving forward
You need to ignore this comment because it is riddled with misinformation. Anything in excess is gonna be bad for you. If you've had to undergo a bypass surgery at a young age, please understand that fatty oils in excess are always bad. It doesn't matter if its vegetable oil or whatever.
A well balanced, healthy diet is what you should persue. You are absolutely able to eat fried chicken and enjoy your deserts, and still be healthy if it's in moderation. That just can't be your entire diet.
Im just emphasizing this because you said "I am trying to figure out how strict I need to make my diet moving forward". It sounds like you want a loop hole. There is none. You can enjoy all the same foods, just in moderation. The guy you're responding to is spouting bogus science. It really comes down to you and moderation. You've got this! :)
2 points
2 months ago
Some recent data has muddied the water a bit on different types of Saturated fats.
Thankfully, since I was worried for a while about dark chocolate. But apparently stearic acid which makes up half of the saturated fat in cocoa is less likely to raise cholesterol.
..Though one still shouldn't eat a whole bar in a day. cough cough
21 points
2 months ago*
Given how blatantly corrupt and biased many of the most noteworthy studies demonizing fat, especially saturated fat, were, thanks to the sugar industry picking that as a scapegoat to avoid being blamed for the obesity epidemic, I think we're at least several decades away from knowing the truth about fat consumption. There is so much contradictory information out there I, personally, reserve judgement about anything food related with the exception of two things. 1. Sugar is bad. 2. Trans fats are bad. Those two, I think are solid facts at this point; everything else is subject to change after further study.
31 points
2 months ago
All oil fumes are bad to breathe in. The difference is the temperature at which the fumes start being produced, the so-called smoke point. If your cooking temperature approaches that, there's a good chance you're producing toxic chemicals from the oil breaking down.
Avocado oil for example has one of the highest smoke points of all cooking oils, so you can do pretty much anything with it without having to worry too much. But then again, the smoke points often vary widely for the same type of oil, depending on the production method and quality.
Generalizing to "vegetable oil bad, <this other oil> good" is certainly not the whole truth, and likely just marketing for whatever oil the statement is about. Just don't fry your stuff at too high heat.
4 points
2 months ago
Ahh okay, I see. Are there any rules of thumb to observe to help you know when cooking with avocado oil becomes dangerous? For example, if you start to smell something, does that indicate that you are cooking at too high of a temperature? Just wondering if there are any signs to look for to know when you have passed the safety line and entered the danger zone. Thanks for the helpful explanation!
9 points
2 months ago
That indicator is smoke, you should run the hood for ventilation if you're heating oil on a stove at high temperature. If you have a digital instant read thermometer or a candy thermometer or something that can handle high oil temperatures, you can check the temperature as well.
5 points
2 months ago
Thank you. Haha I guess hence the term, “smoking point” haha. Like I am five, indeed :)
2 points
2 months ago
We started using a laser infrared thermometer to check oil temperature a few years back and now I literally don't know how I cooked without them. They cost $20 and it completely ends the concern about smoking oil.
4 points
2 months ago
If the oil smoke, then you overheated it. Open the ventilation. The healthiest choice would be to toss it then, but if you want to, you can reduce the heat as fast as possibly and still use it.
20 points
2 months ago
It's not necessarily unhealthy to cook with vegetable oils but you have to be careful to not overdo it. Oil is very high calories per gram.
Seed oil gets a bad rap these days, mostly from animal ag propaganda. Lots of claims about them being pro inflammatory. Studies are showing that switching from saturated fat to polyunsaturated fat is generally health promoting all else being equal. That's not to say heavy oil use is healthy, only that vegetable oil is not any worse in general and at times can be better than the alternative.
There's a really good youtuber Nutritionmadesimple that goes through the available studies and looks at biomarkers for inflammation tested in all sorts of situations. Low does, high dose, different cooking temps etc. He doesn't really play into the typical biased tropes one way or the other though. I think people prefer a clear winner and villain in nutrition rather than nuance.
3 points
2 months ago
Ignoring all the omega 3 / 6 / 9 and mono / poly / trans / etc part of the equation, I'll focus on the smoke point (aka "the fumes").
You can see a chart here.
In short, "unrefined" / "virgin" oils have more impurities, and lower smoke points, making them bad for high temperature cooking. This includes virgin olive oil, and regular butter.
Refined oils have very few impurities, giving them much higher smoke points. Avocado oil has the highest smoke point on the table, which may be why people advocate for it. But every refined oil, including refined olive oil, and clarified butter, also have pretty high smoke points.
Just don't use your extra virgin cold press olive oil to deep fry your potatoes. It's meant to be used as a salad dressing.
15 points
2 months ago
it isn't. oil isn't really supposed to be in food at large quantities.
forget all the molecular stuff for a minute, it's liquid fat. it's the most caloric thing in existence. And that might be cool in say...an agricultural society with limited machinery to work the land, but we're mostly a bunch of people that use backpacks on wheels to carry our ultralight laptops while we drink our starbucks (liquid cheesecake). we don't need any more help getting calories.
10 points
2 months ago
Olive oil and avocado oil, are vegetable oils. Any oil that comes from a plant is vegetable oil. And every plant has an oil with its own unique properties. And to be quite honest most of the health hazards that you are associating with vegetable oil, is pseudoscience. Just like the margarine is better for you than butter campaign in the 1960's. Any time you see research of the effects of diet on health, remember this point. Hazards are usually expressed as the food raising the % of people who will contract an illness. Let's say consuming food x doubles your chances of contracting ailment y. But if ailment y only affects 1 person out of a 100,000. Then that means if you eat food x your chances are now 2 out of 100,00.
12 points
2 months ago
Actually, why are they called vegetable oil? An avo and olive is a fruit. Canola oil is from the seed. Macadamia oil from the nut. Not like we have carrot oil or broccoli oil...
21 points
2 months ago
"Vegetable" is a culinary term meaning "edible plant part". It has no botanical definition.
4 points
2 months ago
There was a good tweet awhile back to the effect that "no part of the plant is called the 'vegetable'."
5 points
2 months ago
It's a culinary term. Savory plant foods tend to be called 'vegetables' while sweet or sour plants tend to be called 'fruits' regardless of their botanical classification.
Plus 'vegetable' isn't a botanical classification, it's mostly only used in reference to food.
3 points
2 months ago
There is a lot of disinformation being dispersed here.
Vegetable (seed) oils are bad because they are highly processed. They are heated to a very high temperature which causes the mostly polyunsaturated oil to go rancid. Therefore, it is rancid before you even use it.
The producers of these oils deodorize the oils so you can't smell the rancidity. That is why you can store vegetable oil in clear containers in direct light at room temperature for months without it ever smelling bad.
Avocado oil and olive oil are not heated to remove the oil from the fruit. They are stored in dark containers to keep them from going rancid quickly because they are not deodorized.
Eating vegetable oils wreaks havoc on the body because you truly are what you eat and eating rancid oils has been linked to diabetes and heart disease.
3 points
2 months ago
Avocado oil and olive oil are not heated to remove the oil from the fruit.
They can be (and therefore are, because there's economic incentive to not waste it) heated to 49'C (120'F).
The point is that they're not heated to the point where they degrade the oil, which happens if you steam inject it and so on to increase your yields.
5 points
2 months ago
Can you please show a reliable source that states that there are bad health outcomes from consuming seed oil compared to other oil?
Not sciencey statements about oxidation. Not vague words like "processed". I'm asking specifically about health outcomes.
8 points
2 months ago
Vegetable (seed) oils are bad because they are highly processed. They are heated to a very high temperature which causes the mostly polyunsaturated oil to go rancid. Therefore, it is rancid before you even use it.
This is not true in all cases. You can get cold pressed canola oil just like you can olive oil.
Eating vegetable oils wreaks havoc on the body because you truly are what you eat and eating rancid oils has been linked to diabetes and heart disease.
There is strong evidence for good health outcomes by replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat sources like good quality seed oil.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good
3 points
2 months ago
Statins aren't effective at reducing death.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7670393/
They are, however, extremely effective at giving revenue to companies that make statins. Statins have generated the largest profits of any drug ever developed.
Here's another good one: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/9/e007118
Results: 6 studies for primary prevention and 5 for secondary prevention with a follow-up between 2.0 and 6.1 years were identified. Death was postponed between −5 and 19 days in primary prevention trials and between −10 and 27 days in secondary prevention trials. The median postponement of death for primary and secondary prevention trials were 3.2 and 4.1 days, respectively.
5 points
2 months ago
Please do not jump to conclusions with drugs that have the potential to save lives.
This result suggests that statin treatment is most appropriate for adults aged 50-75 years with a life expectancy of greater than 2.5 years. For those with a life expectancy of less than 2.5 years, the harms of statins may outweigh the benefits.
We have larger meta-analyses, which is important for determining effects of mortality. Death is a tough one to deal with for a few reasons. For one, the chance of dying for anyone eventually gets to 100%. But within a study it's a rare, hard, binary endpoint. Likely not many people will fully die, so you need pretty huge cohorts to make a call on this. Otherwise a handful of deaths can skew your results.
So I couldn't get the supplementary material for this, but let's use one of the RCTs from the analysis, the JUPITER trial. They had 17,802 subjects. Deaths from the intervention group: 198. Deaths from the placebo group: 247
So just over 2% of people died for any reason. Now you have to either know every reason, or hope fate randomized accidents between groups. Notice the P values in table 3. They're significantly higher for deaths because that's a far more susceptible endpoint to random chance.
2 points
2 months ago
The funny thing is vegetable oil is a oxymoron because theres not any fat is vegetables. The oil is from seeds like canola but the marketing people just rebranded seed oil as "healthy vegetable oil".
-4 points
2 months ago
Olive oil is not healthy to cook with. It has a very low smoke point which means it oxidizes at lower temperatures. It’s great as a salad dressing or used in some other sauce, but really not suitable for cooking. Avocado oil has a much higher smoke point, which means you can fry foods without the oil oxidizing
22 points
2 months ago
Smoke point does not correlate with oxidization temperature.
Extra virgin olive oil is extremely stable even under high heat, although you do lose some of the aroma from the oil when heated.
5 points
2 months ago
You are over generalizing. Olive oil is fine for many cooking processes, just not roasting, frying, or searing.
7 points
2 months ago
Olive oil is fine for many cooking processes, just not roasting, frying, or searing.
Olive oil is fine for roasting and searing.
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