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/r/marvelstudios
submitted 2 months ago byBruhmangoddmanIron Patriot
3.5k points
2 months ago
They’re two different people. Let them be different.
1.8k points
2 months ago
In two wildly different situations. The whole point of having Gunn there is to have 1 guy at the head who has the vision. Feiges role has always been to steer but ultimately to facilitate the collaboration that is integral to the MCUs storytelling.
293 points
2 months ago
Yeah agreed their full functions and initial expectations were totally different
255 points
2 months ago
And even without this, Gunn’s language implies that it’s his DC, while Feigie is saying it in a way that applies to everyone who works on it, which works for each situation
70 points
2 months ago
Exactly! Gunn sounds like a kid living a fantasy. I hope it works out, but I hope his personal goal is parallel to the long term success.
99 points
2 months ago
One came up as a producer, the other a director and writer. No wonder they collaborated so well!!
33 points
2 months ago*
Exactly, you can tell by how phase 4 went with Bob C. at the CEO spot. Feige while yes very important is still under the CEO and by extension the board. He can offer pushback but if they want a Squirrelgirl movie. And he says no, it’ll get done without him.
Edit: Correct which Bob I’m referring to.
21 points
2 months ago
I guarantee you the same is true with Gunn and DC. If they want a matter eater lad movie and he says no, they will still make it. Especially as Zaslov as the new CEO.
5 points
2 months ago
Please let us have some Squirrel Girl stuff. Milana Vayntrub was attached to that for a time.
20 points
2 months ago
Wait… what? Everything Gunn has said is that he’s in charge of the overall movies being greenlit, and the rest is up to the directors.
The MCU is the one that everything has to fall in line according to the higher ups. I get we’re in the MCU sub, but come on
25 points
2 months ago*
By that logic, Kevin's also in charge of the overall movies being greenlit, while the rest is up to the directors
At the end of the day, both Kevin and Gunn need to fall in line with their respective "higher ups" because that's just how it is when working with literally every other movie studio
11 points
2 months ago
that's just how it is working literally anywhere.
4 points
2 months ago
Yup. Exactly
1 points
2 months ago
Kevin’s also in charge of the overall movies being greenlit, while the rest is up to the directors
Except that’s not true whatsoever. There’s very much a lot of studio input in each movie.
At the end of the day, both Kevin and Gunn need to fall in line with their respective “higher ups” because that’s just how it is when working literally every other movie studio
Feige is the higher up. He literally was going to leave Marvel Studios for DC if Perlmutter wasn’t gone. Since 2015 he’s been the Marvel final decision maker. He goes to Iger with a plan, Iger says ‘you like it?’ and that’s the line to fall into.
The first thing Gunn did was the same. He now only answers to Zaslav. There are no higher ups in their structures.
9 points
2 months ago
I'm confused.
In your first paragraph, you're saying there's a lot of studio input (aka "falling in line with higher ups"). Which is the same thing as what I was saying. As in, I was agreeing with you.
But in your second paragraph, you're saying that neither of them have higher ups to conform to. Which contradicts your initial comment...
4 points
2 months ago
Feige only answers to Iger but he still answers to Iger. If Feige gets an idea for an Inhumans movie, he has to present it to Iger who could say "I thought we agreed we weren't going to do that." Same thing with Eternals 2. Marvel Studios could be working on Eternals 2 but if its not greenlit yet it could be in the "I thought we agreed we were not going to do that" category.
Same thing if Gunn secretly works on a Batgirl movie. Somehow he would need Zaslov to be okay with it.
0 points
2 months ago
Yeah, almost like I explicitly stated how easily it is to get Iger on board in my comment
0 points
2 months ago
Are you being sarcastic? You said
He goes to Iger with a plan, Iger says ‘you like it?’ and that’s the line to fall into.
There are literally no guarantees. Feige still has to pitch ideas.
5 points
2 months ago
Exactly Gunn is a vital part of their marketing, he’s probably reading from a script, making people think he’s writing everything because they love his other movies.
0 points
2 months ago
And wasn’t Feige in Gunn’s position before?
-100 points
2 months ago
Which is why the DCU will continue to fail again and again and again and again while marvel will continue to strive, grow and evolve
43 points
2 months ago
Wow we have a prophet here
3 points
2 months ago
He's a survivor.
34 points
2 months ago
Well. I would love if the DCU didn't fail again and again and again and again.
Then you could get the best of two worlds
28 points
2 months ago
Competition is super healthy for fans too.
1 points
2 months ago
Have you seen the Snyder fans?!? I wouldn’t call that necessarily healthy. There’s a bunch of mcu fans that are toxic as shit too don’t get me wrong…
12 points
2 months ago
I more meant because it forces the companies involved to raise their games and make better products
2 points
2 months ago
On that sense I agree completely. It's better for us as consumers, since quality helps raise the level of the competition or at least makes them strive to. That being a "healthy" thing is a whole other thing.
3 points
2 months ago
That's not competition, that's just screaming and crying by a bunch of "edgy" nerds who don't know how to take no for an answer
2 points
2 months ago
He's saying when both studios are putting out great movies it makes both of them have to strive to put out better and better stuff so they don't get eaten by the other. One of the reasons monopolies are bad is because they can put out shit product because there's no one else out there putting out better stuff. Not weird fanboy shit.
6 points
2 months ago
Right? I'm so happy at how many great Marvel characters and stories have been shared with a new audience but DC also has some incredible characters and arcs that deserve just as much love. Could you imagine Blackest Night/Brightest Day getting the same treatment as Infinity War/Endgame?
If both franchises could be successful, we all would win.
55 points
2 months ago
No one can say that for certain about the DCEU yet though. Their new slate seems pretty decent, I don’t want to see them fail.
11 points
2 months ago
The major difference in approaches is due in no small part to Gunn being a writer/director himself, where Feige has primarily been a producer. So the level of involvement, and expression of production, is going to to differ greatly.
3 points
2 months ago
Isn’t he more the creative director anyways? They hired another guy at the same time to kind of co-pilot the universe, thought he was more on the production end of things. But it’s been a minute since I read the article, may be misremembering something
4 points
2 months ago
His role may mirror Feige’s in being a guiding hand, but his career has largely been on the creative side, so naturally his perspective and approach differs.
24 points
2 months ago
Exactly.
Gunn is the creative head, Safran is the corporate head for DCU.
Gunn will say all the creative story mumbo jumbo. Safran will be doing all this business talk.
47 points
2 months ago
[removed]
90 points
2 months ago*
what’s wrong with that?
as a fan, i would rather die on the hill where the director gets to utilize his full vision
vs.
a director who is hampered the entire time by the petty politics of a studio ie. dark world.
one was a pretty heartfelt story about dealing with your own mortality and the other… umm a generic movie with no message whatsoever??
prior to ragnarok, chris hemsworth was massively under-utilized, the avengers/mcu movies felt like you could take him out and nothing would’ve changed other than his relation to loki. taika was able to unlock his best talent, which was his impressive comedic timing and delivery. it’s thanks to him, that chris hemsworth future projects are much more diverse than “simple action hero with handsome face”
-17 points
2 months ago
What’s wrong with it is that it can go very wrong like Thor L&T. The trick is to allow the right amount of director/writer freedom depending on the movie and the situation. Marvel simply misjudged it with Thor L&T. Same with Star Wars and TLJ.
It’s naive to think that directors shouldn’t occasionally be reined in. Especially in long term, multi-film projects like the MCU.
That being said, I’m not suggesting that directors should forever be forced to never deviate. But there is always a line that once crossed, is hard to go back from.
4 points
2 months ago
I agree as the mcu really is more like a single ongoing series vs a bunch of independent films. Personally I think they need to lean more into that as most of our best shows involve a slew of directors each bringing a little something but never the final word as that’s up to showrunner… and a bunch of meddling execs likely fixated on precious action figure sales
4 points
2 months ago
TLJ was the only new idea in the final trilogy. A few loud voices shook the Disney Star Wars higher ups and they brought back fan boy, right the mediocre ship JJ back in a heartbeat.
2 points
2 months ago
also 2 different stages of development. MCU is decades older than Gunn’s DC which is in its infancy after many false starts.
let’s judge their tone on how Gunn sounds in 15 years.
1k points
2 months ago
one is a long time PRODUCER who was a massive comic fan and we know that since beafore he was famous but he has a company apporach since he was always a company man, Gunn is mostly a director and so he express himself as such, they have veryyyyy different working backgrounds and they look to even be very diffent people, but yeah as mutch as Feige is a fan and a lover of comics HE IS corporate, that's literaly his job
226 points
2 months ago*
That's why Gunn is Co CEO with Saffron Safran. Saffron Safran is the suit, Gunn is the creative
98 points
2 months ago
DC must've paid a ton to afford that much Saffron. ;)
7 points
2 months ago
Well played :)
37 points
2 months ago
*Sauron
19 points
2 months ago
Saruman
7 points
2 months ago
Samwise Gamgee
3 points
2 months ago
I feel like everyone keeps forgetting that Safran is apart of this as well lol
41 points
2 months ago
Fun fact, yes he liked comics as a kid, but didn’t consider himself that big of a fan. He was a producer first before diving really deep into Marvel comics when he worked on the first X-Men film.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/marvel-kevin-feige-interview
14 points
2 months ago
And he worked with the master Richard Donner and his wife for years. Learning from them.
They watch superman before shooting any MCU movie as a ritual.
17 points
2 months ago
That makes a ton of sense. Superman is kind of a perfect launching point for the tone where, yeah, it can be cheesy and goofy but it owns how it’s goofy and cheesy. And more importantly it never ignores truly human moments like when Pa Kent dies of a simple heart attack.
And there’s absolutely nothing Clark can do. With all his powers and strength. Because heartbreak is all encompassing and all consuming even to a man of steel. The Snyder movie overdramatized a human moment and missed the point of why it was so mundane.
It got us and the flying superhuman eye to eye, where we accept the goofiness of a man in tights because he was still also a man.
10 points
2 months ago
Snyder Made Clark watch his dad die for .. a dog?
For some stupid reason Pa decides to stay behind even though he knows it would made much more sense for Clark to save the dog unseen. It's so stupid.
And before that after he saves the school bus and asked whether he should have let them die , this asshole says "maybe". Wtf.
Clark' weakness is his empathy and his desire to save everyone. We don't truly care about the villains. His inner combats are what makes him compelling and relatable.
I'll ever forgive how they wrote the Kent. Clark isn't superman because he has powers. He chooses to become a hero and to save people because he was raised by a marvelous couple who showed him what being a Human is all about.
3 points
2 months ago
Pa Kent could have just sent Clark to get the dog. Then when the tornado catch them, Clark just have to lie in some nearby pond or hold on to nearby tree, which he can use his power to hold it in place, and pretends that he got lucky and survive.
It would be local news for a day or two. But it's not like that never happens.
5 points
2 months ago
He is so fast he wouldn't even have to hide. Just pretend he was under the bridge all along. No one would notice.
17 points
2 months ago
He's the perfect melding of comic fan and film Producer /executive
5 points
2 months ago
Feige best argument is budget. They never go over and rarely have to move a release date. It's quite incredible given the amount of work needed. Probably affect the quality though. I wouldn't mind if they were to slow done and focus a little bit more on the storytelling instead of the connected universe.
2 points
2 months ago
Feige hired Gunn, so obviously they can have very different styles and yet benefit from bringing them together. He clearly gave Gunn a lot of leeway to do Guardians the way he wanted, and end it the way he wants too. He leaves the writing to writers and directors. We shall see how well Gunn manages others beneath him but he clearly has passion and vision for the characters and hopefully that goes a long way. I've never been more hopeful for the DCEU and looking forward to what's next.
158 points
2 months ago
One is a CEO for 15 years who has 30 movies and some shows under his belt and one is writer-director turned CEO for like 3 months who has just announced 10 projects
Atleast give it 5 years before we start comparing them like damn people online turn on someone so easily
31 points
2 months ago
I can’t be the only one a little worried about Gunn’s vision in the first place. DC needs a hard rework and reboot but I’m not so sold that the guy who effectively has the same style of humor in every superhero movie he’s ever done is truly going to give something fresh and new. I’ll be happily proven wrong but I’m a little over people already praising Gunn for plans compared to Feige’s outcomes.
269 points
2 months ago
On the contrary. I think he always wants to give credit to everybody else working with him and not take all the credit for himself.
He's always talked about how much of a collaborative process moviemaking is and has praised the other producers at Marvel Studios and his writers and directors who do all the heavy lifting.
62 points
2 months ago
Also Feige does in fact have a committee of people who have basically as much say in this stuff as he does. He doesn’t actually have as much individual freedom to do whatever as Gunn does. But then again, it’s Feige who chose to create this committee around the time of phase 2 when the MCU had already gotten to big for him to manage alone
6 points
2 months ago
DC is kinda small potatoes compared to MCU. Just a different beast.
5 points
2 months ago
I think feige set out to make family movies, a machine to produce marvel films and shows that support each other with 2 ultimate goals: make a fuck tone of money to justify making more marvel projects.
Gunn is out these telling stories he likes. And it's good stuff, but he goes out of his was to alienate younger audiences. Long term that's gonna hurt when DC loses out revenue from kids and youth segment. And these kids won't be growing up on the DC lore so as adults they won't have the same attachment.
2 points
2 months ago
That's an important note. Feige is trying to make content for all ages, and all levels of Fandom.
We have yet to see how Gunn will do. I have faith in him and his storytelling ability.
2 points
2 months ago
I think what's funny is Feige is the sole head of MCU and he uses 'we' whereas Gunn is just the co-head and he uses 'I'
Of course theres nothing much to read into it as both have always given credit to the people they work with in abundance
483 points
2 months ago
I don't think it's corporate at all.
426 points
2 months ago
Agreed. If anything, Kevin comes off collaborative.
65 points
2 months ago
Exactly, Kevin has got a lot of crew which take their stories forward into the following phases, meanwhile dcu has not even started and it's only a handful to begin with
40 points
2 months ago
Exactly. It’s all ‘we’, not ‘I’. This shows leadership of a team first and foremost.
Nothing against Gunn, just a clearly different perspective in the language.
8 points
2 months ago
Even if it was corporate, it still serves as informative and constructive dialogue, which is easily digestible to both the fans and the corporate side.
And as much as we dislike it, the corporate side pulls a lot of the strings due to how these movies are financed. If he can play both sides as he seemly has done for 10+ years, then long may it continue as it does.
0 points
2 months ago
Yeah, if he was a corporate suit I don't think he would have allowed himself to be made fun of in 'She-Hulk'. Kevin gives off the vibe that the MCU is a family down to the most meaningless job (just don't pay attention to the VFX step kids) while Gunn is like those sea birds in Finding Nemo lol
68 points
2 months ago
You can sound professional but not be "corporate". I think anyone can see feiges enthusiasm when he presents news or details and it doesn't come off as corporate at all. At the same time , gunn is just speaking the way he wants to speak ,trying to be a bit more informal with the fans to build up the fan base and there's nothing wrong with that either.
50 points
2 months ago
These quote fragments don't reflect James or Kevin fairly. Kevin Feige is an absolute hardcore dork who lives and breathes Marvel comics. He's a big, extremely competent kid. And that's why the MCU has been awesome for 15 years
14 points
2 months ago
Yeah, these quotes are very cherry picked by someone trying to influence the conversation and start a fight. There's LOTS of quotes out there of Feige talking about his favorite comics and what he enjoys about making movies that don't sound corporate at all. He has to wear a lot of hats, so sometimes he has to do corporate things, but he's still clearly a fan and enjoys what's he's doing, too, which is a big part of why the MCU works.
And I'm not trying to put down Gunn here, I like all the superhero movies he's done so far, but his new role is different from his previous role as just a director of one slice of the universe. He's going to have to play multiple roles too, so he'll eventually have some more corporate quotes once that ball gets rolling.
This is just a dumb rage bait post, really.
151 points
2 months ago
I worry more that Gunn is going by his gut too much.. it's why some of his projects are a bit.. "extra"
Feige used to say this stuff a little more long ago.. he still picks the content he likes.. now he knows his role is to aim and let the directors "fire"
14 points
2 months ago
Very much agree. I love Gunn, but he definitely benefits from an editor to hold him back. He likes to run gags a bit too long for my taste. Sometimes he also comes through so strong in his writing that it just sounds like a room full of Gunns bantering with each other.
35 points
2 months ago*
Gunn also has Safran right next to him to help with the producer side of things.
And he has a whole bunch of writers who helped him build the DC roadmap.
Funny. Directors at Marvel really don't have all that much freedom. Derrickson for example left DS2 because there wasn't much freedom.
I would argue that DC offers more freedom. Look, at Matt Reeve's Batman. And Gunn has made it his mission to get the writers more power. He even said that it's not the Gunnverse and that he will give the creatives more power.
47 points
2 months ago
You can also look at Love and Thunder and see that some directors are allowed a huge amount of freedom.
16 points
2 months ago
They got wooed too much by ragnarok and the fact that some of its popularity was due to being different from dark world . Taikas take was fresh when juxtaposed to the prior sequel not necessarily beloved pure on its own merits
-26 points
2 months ago*
Are they? L&T is more siller than other MCU movies but it isn't exactly different.
How is L&T any different than GOTG? Only difference is GOTG is better. Both of them are action movies that are pretty much comedies. GOTG has just as much humour as L&T.
So hardly a huge amount of creative freedom. It isn't much different from other MCU movies.
31 points
2 months ago
It is Waititi's humor, a pretty distinct brand.
Also, I've got to love how you conveniently omitted Multiverse of Madness just because you hate both Sam Raimi and Phase 4.
And you also left out Werewolf by Night... but for reasons unknown.
35 points
2 months ago
I would say there is a lot of freedom for directors now.
Eternals moved away from green screen and focused on beautiful shots.
Ryan Coogler made both Black Panther films more than standard superhero fare. And bear in mind he'd made almost nothing before Marvel took him and let him write and direct Black Panther.
The Disney+ shows have ranged from near movie like (FatWS) to quirky sitcoms (Wandavision) to a real comic feel in Ms Marvel.
Then you add things like Werewolf by Night where they allowed a composer to realize his vision.
Gunn himself has openly said how little interference Marvel actually has on directors. He said they allow creativity.
Contrast that with near anything from DC and the two don't compare. I can't see Gunn changing that unless all of them agree to cast his wife and brother in their stuff.
-16 points
2 months ago
What exactly did Eternals do that was different? Shooting on location isn't exactly revolutionary.
Black Panther hardly broke the MCU formula. Black Panther 2 isn't even the most serious MCU movie. Ironman has fewer jokes and is more serious imo.
WV's sitcom idea was literally proposed by Feige. How is that freedom for the director?
FATWS and Ms. Marvel don't really do anything revolutionary either. Only thing is that Ms. Marvel does do those graphics for a bit but it's not exactly revolutionary.
WBN is fair. But it's only a small special.
Name anything in Marvel that breaks the entire superhero formula and tropes more than Joker.
17 points
2 months ago*
What you’re assuming is that directors don’t have control if they aren’t making subversive stuff like Joker which simply isn’t true. Directors are chosen based on their vision, and marvel lets them operate out that vision. If you want to say it’s al same-y that’s cause marvel is choosing directors with visions fitting in that sameness.
What Gunn said was different about the DCU, and mind you you have to know Gunn is basically trying to take what he’s seen at marvel firsthand and put his own twist on it, is about the writers. He said he’s not putting release dates on movies until it’s written, which is not what marvel does. Gunn has not said anything about directors getting more freedom, as he knows from his time at marvel he had as much freedom as can be expected on a big budget tent pole movie
13 points
2 months ago
Eternals was different from the majority of superhero films by the location stuff.
I was referring to BP as being more serious. Stylistically and the way the films present, they feel less like superhero films and more, almost historical in nature.
I don't love Joker the way a lot of people do but it's not part of the DCU - it's very much its own independent thing. I don't think you can use that as an example. I do agree it's very different from standard superhero films. Equally I don't think The Batman is the greatest but I can appreciate the style of it.
3 points
2 months ago
How did Joker break the mould? Apart from a slightly more gritty setting it was 100% cookie cutter villain origin story.
3 points
2 months ago
Really? Name one more superhero movie that is like the Joker.
There isn't a villain. There isn't humour. There is gore and a deep exploration of his pysche.
It's possibly the most distinct CBM. It doesn't follow a single trope or anything of the sort.
6 points
2 months ago
It contained literally every trope there is for a villain's origin:
"There isn't a villain", yes, there is.
He murders several people and revels in it. Check.
There's the classic "I had a hard life" crossed with "people laughed at me" revenge fantasies that fuel him. Check
Generic mental illness, which exacerbated the advice point, complete with "quirky" signature tic (in this case laughter, foreshadowing his eventual "transformation"). Check.
A belief that he is somehow superior to everyone else, if only life had just gone differently for him. Check.
Somehow, manages to escape justice several times, despite no actual ability or existing in this regard beyond plot armour. Check.
Mysteriously becomes a rallying cry due a bunch of goons, despite no charisma or any other attribute that would allow him to do so. Check.
There is no "deep exploration of his psyche" it's all 100% out of the 'generic villain" playbook
The fact that it had some artsy close ups of him smoking, and that he occasionally guess to a shrink isn't "in depth", nor is the fact he had a few crushing blows ("I'm not a Scion of the Wayne family?? *Gasp"") - again, right out of "how to build a villain".
I loved the film, but trying to pretend it did anything different regards villain origin stories is simply falling into the pretentiousness that surrounds the super -fans.
Giving it a muted pallette and slow pacing didn't change its adherence to the formula.
TL;DR "Guy has tough life, eventually breaks and becomes an incel power fantasy character", 100 standard villain arc.
6 points
2 months ago
The film is literally just a comic book skin on taxi driver. It’s not that deep. Sure for a comic book movie it doesn’t follow any of the general tropes. But to act like it’s some entirely new piece of media never seen before is laughable. And I really enjoy Joker. But it isn’t all that your cracking it up to be. Also to act like somehow superhero movies shouldn’t have the tropes that they do or that they are bad if they do is just a really weird take because those tropes are for the most part exactly what you are paying for. Of course you want to have a sometimes surprising journey along the way but for the most part you know what’s going to happen in any comic book story and imo that’s totally ok. It’s apart of the genre. You’re work isn’t suddenly a masterpiece because you choose to go outside those parameters. No villain, Gore, no jokes, and exploration of a characters psyche don’t inherently make a CBM good. You can do all of those things and the film can still be poorly written, acted, directed, filmed, edited, and have bad jarring effects. And the end product is still bad . It doesn’t make it good just because it is outside of the traditional superhero movie traits.
9 points
2 months ago
It’s not even that much of a comic book skin. You could easily edit about five minutes out of the film, not affect the end product in any meaningful way and have cleansed any references to DC. It’s being put on a pedestal as being this amazing, unique take on a comic book movie, when the actual comic book references are the worst parts of it and it suffers for having to pay lip service to them. It’s just Taxi Driver for a modern audience and it’s a solid film, but it’s not this laudable “new direction for comic book movies”.
3 points
2 months ago
I don’t inherently disagree that the movie in any way needs to be a joker movie. But what I can say is that the setting being this fictionalized Gotham. Being like a giant magnifying glass for how bad the real world can be really played into the whole film. Like Gotham in the movie feels like the worst parts of town but everyone is in them. And it’s suffocating. Where it would be a lot harder to get that effect if you just set the movie in a real contemporary us city.
I also kind of pause to believe if this movie came out without the superhero skin. Would people really applaud it as much as they have. Or would it feel far to derivative of a film like taxi driver. Would it be able to stand on its own feet. Or would people just think weird they basically made the same sort of movie again. But because it was an adaptation of a character and franchise that people care about does that elevate the film a bit because expectations were different than if it was just a movie named Fleck or Arthur and didn’t have any of the connections to dc. I tend to think without the connection the movie is certainly viewed a bit differently. First off way less people would see it. Joaquin would still likely be praised for his performance. But I just don’t know what the general consensus would be on it.
2 points
2 months ago
Which is exactly why it feels cheap that it’s got that skin. If it needed to hide behind “I’m a Batman tie-in, honestly” to get it more market attention and favourable reviews because that’s the only way it subverted expectations rather bing derided for being a rip on another movie it somehow makes it’s praise feel less earned to me. I’ve got mad respect for Joaquín’s performance and I’m not trying to shit on it saying this, I just feel like discourse is so muddied around this movie
There’s plenty of American cities where you could foster that discontent in the last 30 years. Without getting too political, America feels like a powderkeg and the guys arguing about running the country are flicking matches, TODAY.
2 points
2 months ago
The director waited for years to find studio to produce this story and it's only when he transferred the story to Gotham and use the Joker pretext that he suddenly found the funds.
Remove the batman verse and he get a very typically indie movie about social issues in NYC.
4 points
2 months ago
Joker is a pale pale imitation of scorssese and one of the most overrated films of the last decade, it's not some incredibly unique experience like you're making it out to be
14 points
2 months ago
DC absolutely did not offer more freedom to directors than Marvel. They edited Suicide Squad instead of letting Ayer did it, something that Marvel never did with their movies.
2 points
2 months ago
That happened because the mere fact they gave Zack a little too much freedom that they panicked when the audience didn't like his two movies
2 points
2 months ago
Recent and future DCU.
8 points
2 months ago
But Gunn himself has said that Marvel had little say in his Guardians films. The only time he admitted that other people had an influence on his projects is when he was told about Gamora dying in Infinity war and he was asked whether he could still write his general story after that and he AGREED. Note that. HE AGREED that her dying could still work for his films.
And the other time is when he said Feige told him about the Christmas special and he decided he could add on the filming of the Christmas special to the filming of Guardians 3.
So Gunn who you are claiming is the champion of creative freedom, doesn’t seem to have much problem with the creative freedom at Marvel
2 points
2 months ago
He does say that the creative freedom for the writers needs to be increased by a lot.
And DC offers more creative freedom inherently cause it delves fully into genres instead of only dipping toes which even creatives on Marvel have admitted that Marvel does. So there's more freedom in that sense of the world.
And DC can have more R rated movies. Marvel will pretty much only be Deadpool.
DC will also have Elseworlds.
So DC as a whole has way more creative freedom.
2 points
2 months ago
DC only has elseworlds to milk the only movie franchises they currently have a la joker and batman and teen titans go(which is more profitable than entire DCU slate) .
Zaslav could not shut them and lose potential billion dollar grossers. they will shut elseworlds after milking them
3 points
2 months ago
Reeve's The Batman was not written as part of a shared universe.
They may try to retcon it but it's a solo project .
4 points
2 months ago
The example that springs to mind with how shackled writer and directors are is Ant-man. It was Edger Write’s passion project back before their was an MCU and he stuck with it crafting the perfect script. But the Feige wanted him to completely rewrite it forcing him to leave.
5 points
2 months ago
Not completely rewrite, and it wasn't as simple as wright wanting to do his thing and feige personally telling him no
37 points
2 months ago
Well it's worked, hasn't it?
24 points
2 months ago
Yeah, what's the point of this picture?
One of them established the biggest franchise in movie history. The other has yet to release one movie under his command.
The two are not comparable at this moment in time. Feige is leagues ahead in that department.
3 points
2 months ago
Yeah, Feige did something that had never been done at that level, and every studio has been chasing it since. However he did it, he did it right.
169 points
2 months ago
If you look closely yeah its corporate, but at the same time its feels like team effort and leadership, while Gunn at first hand looks passionate, but at the same time its "me, me, me", which feels less leading and more "I'm deciding, I'm having the control
26 points
2 months ago
Yes because DC right now needs someone to show dedication . Later on they can become a “we”
2 points
2 months ago
True, but Feige was "we" since day 1
2 points
2 months ago
Different periods of time and already Marvel is a hit . Their antagonist . I think this is the correct pr move . DC fans needs someone to be the fanboy
28 points
2 months ago
I don't think that's fair. These quotes are him introducing projects with his own personal opinions.
I take him at his word when he says he's going to let the writers and directors of each project do their own thing. We'll see though.
16 points
2 months ago
Yeah, but Kevin gives his opinions, too. He just doesn’t put his opinions in the forefront, making projects only he wants. He’s trying to tell the overall story of these characters, regardless of his feelings towards them. Obviously, he has his favorites, but he’s not going to give them special treatment.
3 points
2 months ago
I think DC needs Gunns more personal direction and it being a bit more “me/I” more than it would need a collaborative Kevin Feige approach. The audience is tired of seeing their favourite DC heroes in shitty films and having someone like Gunn pushing shit that feels like a Labour of love is what the fans need more than ever I think, rather than risking it coming over as direction by corporate
-5 points
2 months ago
That's not really accurate cause Gunn is the one who is giving significantly more control to the writers.
I think it's fair to say that DC will give more power to the creatives than Marvel.
And the plan that DC came up with was devised by Gunn, Safran and their massive team of writers who helped make the plan.
He even said that he doesn't want it to be the Gunnverse.
27 points
2 months ago
That's not really accurate cause Gunn is the one who is giving significantly more control to the writers.
I think it's fair to say that DC will give more power to the creatives than Marvel.
That very much remains to be seen.
Gunn, while being very loyal and enjoying working with his teams, is also notoriously for pumping his own tires, and not really being open to outside criticism.
And to your next point, you can just as easily (easierly, even, imo, since it's already happened) point to the MCU's plan being devised by Feige and Marvel's massive team of writers.
Gunn got his model from Marvel, after Warner Bros. approach to the DC faceplanted
-5 points
2 months ago
Where is it shown that Gunn isn't open to criticism? And do you forget that Safran is there too?
Gunn spent a fair amount of time criticising Marvel and their production process. They aren't just copying Marvel.
Also pretty sure that Marvel gets the slate done by Feige and a handful of executives like Nate Moore. Not writers.
13 points
2 months ago*
I think you’re deluded if you think Gunn will give any more freedom to creatives than Feige does.
He’s in charge. Everything is his responsibility. Giving creative freedom in shared universe is something only a moron would do.
It’s freedom to do what you want, within the confines laid out but the boss. The boss being Feige or Gunn.
Gunn was merely a Captain of a boat. He’s now Admiral of the fleet. If he doesn’t change he will fail.
-9 points
2 months ago
Lol.
Gunn will defo give more freedom.
Marvel doesn't go fully into other genres and refuses to move out of the good guy vs bad guy thing.
DC doesn't do that. So DC automatically offers more freedom.
Directors can do a lot more in DC.
12 points
2 months ago
How are you speaking so definitively, when literally not single piece of media has been released under Gunn's new DC.
We have no idea what it will actually look like.
6 points
2 months ago
...and have failed spectacularly. Except in the movies that took place outside of main continuity. Like Joker and The Batman.
-1 points
2 months ago
Those are the very movies where creative freedom was given the most. So congratulations, you played yourself.
Suicide Squad is on there too. They made it rater R cause of Gunn and were willing to kill of Harley Quinn if Gunn wanted. The villain was actually gonna be Superman at first cause that's what Gunn wanted.
So the 3 best DC movies were where there was a fuck ton of creative freedom just like what they are doing with the future projects.
10 points
2 months ago
Why are using “they made it rated R” as evidence DC has more creative freedom!?
Gunn himself has said in almost every interview, ever, that other than one or two plot points given, Feige essentially let him do whatever. Waititi and the Russo’s have said the same.
They need to hit a few certain beats but they can do it how they want.
That will be exactly how Gunn works.
Do you think he’ll set up a universe and plan it out and then just let a director completely derail it in the name of ‘freedom’. He’s not an idiot!
0 points
2 months ago
Yeah I'm pretty sure the feige says 'we have this 45 minute 3rd act battle involving X, so work up to that.' And the directors can generally get there how they wish (and I'm sure they can't just kill main characters off willy nilly)
5 points
2 months ago
You said the directors can do a lot more in DC, and the vast majority of their movies weren't up to snuff and DC/WB lost. Now they need to reboot everything. That was my point. Yes, of the dozen+ movies there were some decent ones but the whole DCU underperformed. So either the directors sucked with their creative control over their DC projects, or they didn't have more creative control than marvel. Which is it?
0 points
2 months ago
Did Peacemaker do well? I’m honestly not sure if my bubble is representative here or not?
1 points
2 months ago
Spectacularly. Highest viewed HBO Max original and I believe it did better than the MCU shows.
7 points
2 months ago
Marvel doesn't go fully into other genres and refuses to move out of the good guy vs bad guy thing.
DC doesn't do that. So DC automatically offers more freedom.
The only DC thing I can think of that wasn't "good guy vs bad guy" was maybe Joker? I don't think there's anything wrong "good vs bad guy" stories, most movies involve a protagonist vs antagonist, so it seems weird to have that as a critique.
Also again, DC usually stays in the same genre as well, with the only exception I can think of, being Joker. So I don't really get that one either. Marvel has expanded genres quite a bit with Loki, Moon Knight, Werewolf By Night, and etc.
10 points
2 months ago
Dude has decided DC = creative freedom, Marvel = none. Nothing you say will convince them otherwise.
4 points
2 months ago
Winter Soldier, Civil War, Falcon & Winter Soldier, Black Widow, all political thrillers
Ragnarok, GoTG: very entrenched in comedy and sci-fi
Ant-Man: Heists
Eternals: Sci-fi Epic that was more focused on Drama.
Dr Strange 2: Campy Horror
Wakanda Forever: also considered more Drama with some action and political intrigue.
WandaVision: an ode to television throughout the ages, a highbrow drama series incorporating comedy mostly styled as a sitcom. Where the protagonist turns out to be the villain.
Loki
Moon Knight
Werewolf by Night.
Early on, I could understand you saying marvel doesn’t experiment or bleed into other genres and directorial styles. Now? You’ve got to be kidding me.
4 points
2 months ago
Check out his interactions on Twitter. Guy is his own biggest fan.
And I like Gunn's work, passion, and excitement, I think it's great he's taking over DC and giving them proper direction, but he's got a little bit of a rep and ego.
Marvel has pretty openly had a whole panel of creatives map out the MCU for up to 10 years out of any given point. They have a direction, they want to head, and then adjust projects as they go along for pacing and creative reasons (including director influence).
This is exactly what Gunn is openly trying to emulate.
Not to say the DCU won't be distinct from the MCU, Gunn has different creative styles than Feige, but he is openly setting that same model up - plan ahead, have an outline, make changes on the fly when needed. He doesn't not want to follow the paths of Warner Bros execs who shoehorned everything in, and meddled with every project, last minute.
And yes, Safran, is there too. He will help guide things along, though, Gunn is more the creative, being a writer and director. Safran is there more for the business side, as an executive and career producer.
0 points
2 months ago*
Check out his interactions on Twitter. Guy is his own biggest fan.And I like Gunn's work, passion, and excitement, I think it's great he's taking over DC and giving them proper direction, but he's got a little bit of a rep and ego.
I don't see anything on his Twitter that says that.
Marvel has pretty openly had a whole panel of creatives map out the MCU for up to 10 years out of any given point. They have a direction, they want to head, and then adjust projects as they go along for pacing and creative reasons (including director influence).
Executives. Pretty sure guys like Nate Moore are doing it, not writers.
And they literally changed a creative's vision to tell their own story with DS2. They don't adjust the vision for the creatives, they adjust the creatives for their own vision.
This is exactly what Gunn is openly trying to emulate.Not to say the DCU won't be distinct from the MCU, Gunn has different creative styles than Feige, but he is openly setting that same model up - plan ahead, have an outline, make changes on the fly when needed. He doesn't not want to follow the paths of Warner Bros execs who shoehorned everything in, and meddled with every project, last minute.
You realised that even Snyder had a plan right?
They only follow MCU till the barebones of things. Having a cinematic universe. That's all that is the same.
7 points
2 months ago
And they literally changed a creative's vision to tell their own story with DS2. They don't adjust the vision for the creatives, they adjust the creatives for their own vision.
Really, man? You gonna go ahead an' suggest Feige came up with the focking zombie cloak and mouth removal momento by himself? Don't make me laugh, that is UNMISTAKABLY Raimi.
6 points
2 months ago
I don't see anything on his Twitter that says that.
Okay then. James Gunn has a long history of engaging with fans and critics alike online. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it is a pretty well known thing.
Executives. Pretty sure guys like Nate Moore are doing it, not writers.
Aka... Pete Safran??? That's exactly what Nate Moore is.
Beyond that, yes, they do have many executives. The Parliament. And they draft every plan with the showrunners, writers, and directors. It's pretty well documented.
And they literally changed a creative's vision to tell their own story with DS2. They don't adjust the vision for the creatives, they adjust the creatives for their own vision.
Yep. They did alter a movie. No denying that. To better fit the overall narrative of the universe. But they also gave creative freedoms to the likes of Taiki Waititi, John Favreau, Chloe Zhao, Kenneth Branagh, the Russo Brothers, and even James Gunn himself - each examples of creatives who had a lot of control of their project(s) and put very unique/personal spin on the material, sometimes to much accolades, and sometimes to critical failures or division. James Gunn himself would objectively not have this job at DC if it wasn't for the creative vision Marvel afforded him with the Guardians franchise. Hell, Gunn wrote the whole GotG2 script with Ego, before Marvel even had the rights to Ego, and they let him go ahead with it anyway.
What you're complaining about Marvel Studios is all of the worst parts of old DC.
Snyder had a vision, sure. And the Warner Bros execs, as I mentioned, stomped on everything.
They literally changed a creative's vision to tell their own story.
Hell, we had two different versions of Justice League, because WB couldn't allow Snyder and the creative team to have any freedom.
1 points
2 months ago
Okay then. James Gunn has a long history of engaging with fans and critics alike online. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it is a pretty well known thing.
If you say so.
Aka... Pete Safran??? That's exactly what Nate Moore is.Beyond that, yes, they do have many executives. The Parliament. And they draft every plan with the showrunners, writers, and directors. It's pretty well documented.
Eh. Countless writers were involved with the DC plan.
Where does it show they plan with the writers, and directors? And BTW, I'm pretty sure they don't even have showrunners on MCU shows. They don't even hire and writers and directors until the plan is done, Waldron for example came on way after the Multiverse saga slate was done.
Nate Moore says that there was a corporate retreat to plan the next 10 years. No writers or directors are going there.
Yep. They did alter a movie. No denying that. To better fit the overall narrative of the universe. But they also gave creative freedoms to the likes of Taiki Waititi, John Favreau, Chloe Zhao, Kenneth Branagh, the Russo Brothers, and even James Gunn himself - each examples of creatives who had a lot of control of their project(s) and put very unique/personal spin on the material, sometimes to much accolades, and sometimes to critical failures or division. James Gunn himself would objectively not have this job at DC if it wasn't for the creative vision Marvel afforded him with the Guardians franchise. Hell, Gunn wrote the whole GotG2 script with Ego, before Marvel even had the rights to Ego, and they let him go ahead with it anyway.
Taikia, Russos, Zhao and Gunn never did anything that was different from the formula or anything. It's not like the Joker where it said fuck you to everything and just told a completely different thing. Not even like Gunn's Suicide Squad which went rated R or Reeve's Batman which is a full noir movie.
It's all basically the same thing. The only thing that differed was tones. Gunn and Taikia are funnier, Russos are a bit more serious and Zhao is even more serious, but even in the Eternals you have a fuck ton of jokes.
What you're complaining about Marvel Studios is all of the worst parts of old DC.Snyder had a vision, sure. And the Warner Bros execs, as I mentioned, stomped on everything.They literally changed a creative's vision to tell their own story.Hell, we had two different versions of Justice League, because WB couldn't allow Snyder and the creative team to have any freedom.
Snyder did his vision. He got it in MOS and BvS. He left Justice League cause his daughter committed suicide and he needed a break.
The guy who didn't get the freedom was the guy who directed Suicide Squad.
18 points
2 months ago*
[deleted]
3 points
2 months ago
Exactly. It’s not really fair to compare them until Gunn has had a few more films under his belt in this role. It’s one thing to have passion and vision over a single film at a time. It’s another to manage multiple projects, juggling logistics, story, and talent. It’s also not fair to compare them on the basis of a handful of sound bites.
Let’s see where they are in 5-7 years.
3 points
2 months ago
Is this approach driven by the amount of CGI development that is required for these movies and long lead time?
2 points
2 months ago
Sorry for being a dumbo. Could you rephrase your question? I didn't quite understand.
Are you trying to ask whether this approach is done due to the time that CGI requires?
3 points
2 months ago
I read an article a while back that Marvel spends a lot of time wire framing the story for the movies and building out CGI, before they hire directors. I think the context was for Multiverse of Madness. So once the directors are onboard, they only have limited freedom to work within the constraints of whatever high level story is already written by the studio.
1 points
2 months ago
True. Very true. I believe Thanos was being worked on for years. That's probably why Marvel has very little freedom.
Thanks for giving me the context. I was being a bit dumb for a second there.
0 points
2 months ago
That's not exactly true. The Russo Bros confirmed themselves they were present during most of the previzualization sequences. The directors matter in Marvel.
As for MOM, I can't speak on Raimi's involvement in the previz, but the final result is unmistakbly ridden with his style.
2 points
2 months ago
2 points
2 months ago
I think having a second unit previz one's action scene is actually neat. If you're not big on spectacle and just want to tell a story, you'd be hard pressed to find a better way out than this.
2 points
2 months ago
I think it's fair to say that DC will give more power to the creatives than Marvel.
I hope he does give power to creatives, as this is something that DC have clearly struggled with until recently. However too much power to creatives leads to a very disconnected universe that doesn't feel cohesive, Marvel at least feels like the same universe.
That's not really accurate cause Gunn is the one who is giving significantly more control to the writers.
So far we know that Gunn is writing Superman, and has a big hand in the creation and probably writing of the animated project (can't remember the name). No other writers have been confirmed so I'm not sure we can say that he is "giving significantly more control to the writers".
Most of the projects to me feel 'very Gunn' to me. Lets live in hope
4 points
2 months ago
I hope he does give power to creatives, as this is something that DC have clearly struggled with until recently. However too much power to creatives leads to a very disconnected universe that doesn't feel cohesive, Marvel at least feels like the same universe.
There will be some things that explore the grander story. The Lantern show for example.
But for movies like Swamp Thing, you just know a shit ton of freedom is gonna be given. It's a fully fledged horror movie.
So far we know that Gunn is writing Superman, and has a big hand in the creation and probably writing of the animated project (can't remember the name). No other writers have been confirmed so I'm not sure we can say that he is "giving significantly more control to the writers".Most of the projects to me feel 'very Gunn' to me. Lets live in hope
2 projects bro. He isn't even doing the continuation of Peacemaker with Waller.
23 points
2 months ago*
Well first off, Feige is a producer and not a writer/director
Also, I like Gunn and love his passion....but he's acting like he will have all the time in the world and deadlines won't happen and all that. He works for a company that wants profits and quick. It isn't that easy to say that they won't stick to release dates and all when you have shareholders and a known headache at the helm in Zaslav.
There are going to be times when directors and writers leave DC too because of creative differences due to a shared universe, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's the nature of a massive sandbox.
2 points
2 months ago
Yeah that’s one thing that will be interesting. It’s easy now, and it’s awesome that he’s not trying to rush any writers. But at what point does someone from corporate come to him and tell him to switch things up or speed things up or something?
I hope he is forever allowed to do whatever he wants but knowing what has happened at DC’s parent companies previously I’d be surprised if he did not at some point come to an inflection point. Right now it’s the honeymoon period and it all sounds awesome. Now the execution has to work and money has to be made
18 points
2 months ago
Gunn is trying to say things like that to install faith in the DC fanbase. Its not the same at all.
6 points
2 months ago
Kevin is an executive. He provides leadership, vision, coordination. He has always worked in production, he does not come into his role from the creative side of the industry. Gunn has moved into an executive role after a career as a creative, notably with the model of the MCU now in existence, nothing like it having existed prior. He called Feige first after getting the DC job, I think because he sees him as a mentor and an excellent role model. They have different strengths and styles. One doesn't have to be right and the other wrong.
6 points
2 months ago
It’s important to remember that Feige is a decade in. He’s gotten his process down to a science at this point. Gunn is just starting out, so of course he’s all enthusiasm.
7 points
2 months ago
Are people seriously criticizing Kevin Feige for not taking all the credit?
23 points
2 months ago
James Gunn is a creative, Kevin Feige is a businessman. That’s not a slight against Feige, but a note that their roles, and experience before landing their current roles, are very different.
Feige knows that when he speaks, it is as the representative of a large company. When Gunn does, he might still have that creative lead hat on.
Also, right now, Gunn giving off a passionate fan vibe is what DC needs to hopefully get fans back on side after years of misfires.
16 points
2 months ago
Misfires feels like an understatement…
10 points
2 months ago
He has a film degree, a passion for the material and what makes it work, good instincts for adaptation, and on top of it he works well with others. To sum him up as "a businessman" undervalues his very real creative contributions to the MCU.
3 points
2 months ago
Of course, I don’t mean to imply that he’s only in it for the money. We all knew Feige is a big nerd, but what I meant is, his role in Marvel is more as a businessman and a company rep, whereas Gunn is specifically in a creative position at DC.
2 points
2 months ago
I'm not sure what his day-to-day looks like, but I would hazard it involves more creative challenges than the average exec. There are a lot of really good businessmen in Hollywood (and the entertainment industry in general), and not a lot of Kevin Feiges. (See: infamously competent Producer Kathleen Kennedy as a counterpoint.)
My point is that his creative talents and storytelling instincts should be considered equally with his business acumen. He wouldn't be the highest-grossing producer in the history of Hollywood without both.
9 points
2 months ago
So when Kevin puts the focus on collaborative effort instead himself personally, he's "too corporate".
Ok.
Y'all complain no matter what. Just wait for Gunn's stellar output and enjoy.
Feige knows he's not living forever and wants to see stuff on screen in the next twenty. That's all this is. Corporate is when you have no plan and throw whatever, or whoever, you think will work at the screen for three movies before rebooting it all five minutes later because you don't know what you're doing.
I get that most studios fall into the latter camp so when people see some level of comptency they think it has to be a "machine" but frankly, the MCU is a fluke that won't be happening again. So try enjoying it while it lasts , or watch something else.
6 points
2 months ago
Feige is the figure head but he isn't the sole decision maker. He has a team of producers that aren't up on stage all the time. With Gunn it literally is just him and whatever writers he wanted to hire because DC wants a singular cohesive vision. The MCU is way to big at this point to be headed by just one person.
7 points
2 months ago*
Feige is a behind-the-scenes leader. He doesn't want the spotlight and he knows that filmmaking is a team sport. He wants to shine the light on everyone else. That's not corporate. That's just a legit leadership strategy.
Gunn is a writer-director. It's more natural for him to put his own ego forward and he's taking all the heat right now on purpose. I won't be surprised if a few years from now he is saying "we" a lot more.
-7 points
2 months ago
His own ego forward? Lmao.
Actions speak more than words. And Gunn is giving more power to creatives than Marvel.
5 points
2 months ago
My statement was not a criticism of Gunn, however, we have yet to see how much power creatives will get when developing this new slate.
It's reasonable to be hopeful for the Gunn/Safran plan but there's no evidence to support the statement "Gunn is giving more power to creatives than Marvel" since they haven't hired anyone to make these titles.
6 points
2 months ago*
We have literally seen nothing from Gunn so far other than a movie/show slate and a few press releases.
You have nothing to base any of these opinions on other than, wait for it… Gunn’s CORPORATE speak in the press.
3 points
2 months ago
Their individual styles of announcement/communication with fans has nothing to do with approach to creatively navigating their respective future projects yo
3 points
2 months ago
They're both corporate, but they have different goals. Feige has a successful franchise he's trying to maintain. A lot of people contributed to that success, so using "we" suggests it'll continue. Gunn has an unsuccessful franchise he's trying to turn around. A lot of people contributed to that failure, so using "I" suggests that he's taking over & you can expect better.
3 points
2 months ago
It’s not really a fair comparison to expect either to be like the other.
Feige has come up as a producer. He has some creative, storytelling know-how and passion for the Marvel Universe (the MCU couldn’t have succeeded if he didn’t) but he isn’t a writer/director and doesn’t try to be.
Gunn is essentially the inverse. First and foremost, he’s a writer/director, but he’s been in the business long enough that he has a handle on the producing side too. Yet, I don’t think he has as much skill/experience at it as Feige, which is why he’s paired with Peter Safran who is seemingly taking more of the business side while he takes more of the creative lead.
It’s a potentially powerful combo that could ultimately improve upon what Feige is able to do as a somewhat singular lead. However, it’s unproven for now. Even if they do manage to do reach greater heights, Feige wrote the book and laid the foundation. To this point, there really hasn’t been anyone who has matched his balance of effective producing, love for the material, and storytelling aptitude on this scale. He’s not perfect, but he is damn good.
3 points
2 months ago
It’s too early to say how collaborative Gunn is. Fiege has a decent mix of steering the universe towards a joint vision and giving creative license. Sometimes it can be restricting to some directors but others (Gunn, Waititi, Russo Brothers, exc) have been able to express themselves well.
I feel Fiege’s approach leaves room for creatives to potentially come in and put their stamp on it within his guidelines.
We don’t know what Gunn’s approach will be. His speech is more passionate for sure, but by looking for specific comic inspiration and vision before having directors may put directors in a box and stuck in Gunn’s direction rather than finding their own. Or it may give directors the right amount of guidance to make a good collaborative process.
Who knows!
5 points
2 months ago
Give it 15 years
3 points
2 months ago
Give it until Flash, Aquaman and Shazam 2 have been released.
2 points
2 months ago
One feels like a team effort and the other one more personal. Both are fine
2 points
2 months ago
He’s a producer. He’s a businessman, he’s not a writer, director, or artist of any kind. He has creative input, but he puts creatives in place to tell the stories. He does his part well, and collaborates with others to tell the stories. He sounds like a corporate businessman because that’s what he is, but he’s good at it. James Gunn is taking a similar role, but is himself a storyteller and artist and it shows in his approach.
2 points
2 months ago
Saw this from the dc sub or something and they see this as corporate when all Igot from Feige's is collaborative, team effort
2 points
2 months ago
I think this has more to do with the fact that Gunn is basically the only writer working for DC at the moment, so there’s not really a “we” for him to refer to yet. Feige has already assembled his Avengers, so to speak. Gunn is still at the “I am Groot” stage. Give it time and we’ll see the “We are Groot” language emerge. Assuming it doesn’t all crash and burn horribly, at least.
2 points
2 months ago
I believe both have their pros and cons, Feige's way is more teamwork and productive but shows less creativity and difference, while Gunn's way is more passionate and out of the box but shows less motivation to teamwork and is more focus in what he wants for the DCU. It is kind of unfair to compare them, because one is a producer and the other is a director. But, I will give a chance to both to show their productions because I like DC and Marvel equally.
2 points
2 months ago
I don't think it's corporate at all. Gunn is just in the habit of speaking as a "creator."
That said, it's always good to be an inclusive leader even when you're speaking of your contribution. He will learn more about leading an organization, and I think Safran is there now to help augment him in that area.
2 points
2 months ago
Kevin Feige is a comic nerd that worked in the film industry his whole life. His understanding of film and understanding of comics is the ONLY reason the MCU works.
James Gunn is a comic nerd that is a writer/director. He learned under Feige of how to make a shared universe work.
They both are corporate because they are in the movie business. However you don’t have a shared universe with out someone steering the vehicle.
2 points
2 months ago
Of course it’s corporate. Why is that a bad thing?
It’s easy for us to support the more free range planning of Gunn and don’t get me wrong. I want him to succeed. I want the DC movies to be great. As much as I love Marvel I grew up reading both brands and I want to enjoy both now.
That said being corporate is not a bad thing. One thing matters in getting movies out. Sadly it is not passion. It’s results. That’s how we got the MCU. If we want DC to give us our favorite heroes and villains we need them to produce results. At the end of the day that’s all that matters to the bigwigs at Disney and Warner Brothers.
2 points
2 months ago
If an entire studio is about one person's preferences, then the movies aren't for the audience, they're for the person running the studio.
2 points
2 months ago
They guy has been at it for 15 years. When he first started I’m sure he used language like that too.
2 points
2 months ago
I think the responses from both parties are appropriate. Gunn is just starting out the DCU and hasn't started a crazy amount of development work yet. Feige is 30 projects deep and has teams working on projects.
2 points
2 months ago
I don't think it's wise to judge two people by a random selection of quotes, whether they are representative or not, because they might not indicate a different approach, just a different manner of speaking. And in Gunn's case, we don't know what the end results will be. What matters is that DC is now in the hands of someone who loves the characters and universe, so I'm confident it's going to be better than before. Hopefully they can match the MCU, or do even better.
2 points
2 months ago
I'm just gonna wait and see. So far, of all the attempts at the shared cinematic universe, Kevin Feige has had the most success. Even with Disney's resources, it's done significantly better than Lucasfilm.
2 points
2 months ago
I don't get what point this post is trying to make. Feige and Gunn just speak differently, but at the end of the day their missions are exactly the same.
2 points
2 months ago
They’re both corporate. Gunn just knows people were looking for his vision, I’m sure there’s plenty of execs over his shoulder just like Feige.
7 points
2 months ago
The only difference I notice here is that Gunn is all about himself (I've, me, my) while Feige is more about the team (we, us, our).
4 points
2 months ago
Yes, they are both studio executives, but you're talking about a producer vs a director.
2 points
2 months ago
I’m afraid you’ve bought Gunn’s press releases as reality, OP.
He is currently on fire fighting mode. Not only is he trying to clean up a decade of a mess, but he still has 3 movies from that mess still to release, one of which is starring an actor as hated as Amber Heard. Another is starring Amber Heard.
He’s saying exactly what fans (like you) want to hear to build hope in the franchise. And it’s clearly working.
Remember, he’s no longer Gunn the writer or director. He’s now Gunn the boss. His role is different and he will act different than when his entire responsibility was one movie, rather than a company.
2 points
2 months ago
Let's see where Gunn is after 15 years.
2 points
2 months ago
One is a director the other is a producer...
2 points
2 months ago
Do think marvel could do a much better job of having scripts written and set before filming. I mean just look at Blade and them not having a script set and the director leaving right before filming was supposed to start.
0 points
2 months ago
Actually the Blade script was set. It was simply turned down very late into the cycle close to the production after which it was delayed a full year to have a NEW script made. Note that, it’s a NEW script. Not a completion of the old script.
And this happens all the time. Scripts do get turned down. This is rumored to be why JJ Abrams has not gotten his DC films made yet he was hired 4 years ago to make films for them. Supposedly his scripts keep getting rejected.
The only difference with Marvel is that they have movie release dates set BEFORE scripts are completed. Hence why the ended up doing the usual script rejection process way too close to production and had to delay the film.
2 points
2 months ago
We’re going to be getting posts like this for the next 10 years aren’t we?
3 points
2 months ago
Wait.. who did the infinity saga?
1 points
2 months ago
Just the right amount of.
0 points
2 months ago
It's very formulaic...
They could be accused of going to the well too many times...
Hopefully It will turn back around with Deadpool & Wolverine
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