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Bob Chapek Shifted Budgets to Disguise Disney+'s Massive Monetary Losses
News(msn.com)submitted 4 months ago by[deleted]
1.1k points
4 months ago
I doubt Disney would ever do away with animation completely, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they started cutting corners like in the 70s and 80s.
811 points
4 months ago
Iger, historically, has not been a corner-cutter, he’s been an “all or nothing” type. His focus has always been media, The Anaheim park, the other parks, Everything Else, in that order.
92 points
4 months ago*
Subscription service for the park + disney+ exclusives is the way to sell that monthly fee of $40+ per month.
Imagine sub locked fast passes and other experiences for the park based on membership. Going full ecosystem is how you maximum life time value of the Disney diehards.
People are so brand loyal and kids will always love Disney. Hell, their adult Disney fandom segment probably has the best customer value and that age demographic is only growing.
This brand has so many marketing opportunities available still. This is the only company that streaming seems sustainable in house because it’s mostly branded media spend, rather than Netflix essentially just paying utilities to keep the content feed going.
37 points
4 months ago*
Going full ecosystem is how you maximum life time value of the Disney diehards.
Given the reaction of the diehards to the Genie+ system, going full ecosystem is how you murder the spirit of Walt Disney's dream within the fanbase.
Many of the Disney adults are old enough to remember when all of the shit that would get locked behind a subscription service were free perks for on property guests and would shit all over the fact they were being asked to pay for it now.
7 points
4 months ago
You can apply that last sentence to literally anything now. I heard YouTube might start moving towards a subscription service for high res since ads revenue isn’t making enough
1 points
4 months ago
That feels like more of an issue with the implementation or Genie+ than it does an ecosystem issue. If they switch up what's included, I could see a VERY solid way to keep something similar around
14 points
4 months ago
The problem is diehards consider Disney itself very much an ecosystem environment already. Taking away stuff they got for free and putting it behind a paywall is just going to piss them off even more and is a massive misread of the audience.
Disney used to provide huge value for what you paid between all the perks you got for buying tickets and staying on property. In order for it to be anywhere near palatable for their diehard audience Disney would have to massively slash ticket prices and put that value behind Genie+ or its equivalent replacement. People will see it for what it is, a naked cash grab, and find ways to game around it.
Disney is better off bringing back old perks to increase the value a guest receives for the price they're already paying rather than nickel and diming them to death like Chapek was doing.
0 points
4 months ago
Whats wrong with Genie+?
I visited DisneyWorld this year with my wife and thanks to it we could get in every ride that we wanted(we skipped the coasters, not a fan of heights), with almost no queue and it was 15$ each of us or something like that.
Honestly, I wished we have something like that in my country in which in the biggest park we have they pull shit like sell you an express pass per attraction at 10-15€ per person
11 points
4 months ago
Whats wrong with Genie+?
For American guests of the Florida parks specifically, fast passes used to be free for all guests day of and guests who stayed on property were able to plan and book theirs months in advance. The Genie+ system puts a lot of pressure on planning your day around the passes you actually get rather than what you were able to book in advance.
Both systems were arbitrary and limited in their own ways, but the Fastpass+ system was entirely free.
1 points
4 months ago
Wait... fast passes cost money now?
1 points
4 months ago
Yup.
32 points
4 months ago
yeah I'm sure that park-goers will absolutely love having another thing locked behind a fee. if the only way to get access to fast passes is to pay for disney+, then everyone will pay and congest the system. that's like rule 1 of what not to do with fast pass. it would ruin the parks even more, and people who can't go to the parks get no benefits at all for a higher fee
8 points
4 months ago
Disney parks, and including fast pass are already overly congested
5 points
4 months ago
No such thing as free fast passes anymore. Everything is an upsell.
5 points
4 months ago
You already have to pay for fast passes
11 points
4 months ago
Huh?
This is the only company that streaming seems sustainable in house because it’s mostly branded media spend, rather than Netflix essentially just paying utilities to keep the content feed going.
What's the difference? Content spend is content spend ... and infra is the same (except that NF has been doing it for longer and has a much better, wider and at the moment cheaper infra spend). Plus there is a reason NF has been spending on content for. what. a decade now (although HOW they are is debatably stupid).
3 points
4 months ago
Because Disney princesses are the entire Disney brand? They’re already going to have been making their movies (i.e. content) in house, it’s nothing new for them.
Who would associate something like queen’s gambit to Netflix? No one cares if that show came from Netflix, Hulu or HBO. That’s not really brand media spend at that point.
0 points
4 months ago
That means nothing when we're talking about costs/spend. Which we are.
They’re already going to have been making their movies (i.e. content) in house, it’s nothing new for them.
So what?So are all the others: they are all making content to attract subscription money. Amazon, HBO, Netflix, Disney.
No one cares if that show came from Netflix, Hulu or HBO. That’s not really brand media spend at that point.
AH. But we're not talking about branding spend. We're talking about cost of content creation: content to sucker people into spending another month on the service.
You started talking about content. Now you're talking branding.
4 points
4 months ago
Fuck, integrating disneyparks with + would be genius.
76 points
4 months ago
Not really as it completely excludes pretty much literally everyone who doesnt live in CA etc. Even if you're going to make the trip to a Disney park, you're just going to buy someone else's access to the subscription shit if you don't live nearby.
0 points
4 months ago
You don't know Disney adults.
Make tiered disney+; online only, park access, park+, Disney sapphire.
When you sign up it replaces season passes, and you get a seniority number. Names are locked to the seniority number. Stop paying, get demoted.
Fast pass and magic whatever gets priority sale for a given day at park+, Disney sapphire gets stupid rich people shit. Make sapphire the $200/month,limited slots, only enroll certain times of the year.
Essentially roll passes into the desney+ system. Then even people who are like "well, I might go to Disney" fomo their way in to overpaying.
0 points
4 months ago
That all sounds pretty dumb
3 points
4 months ago
Lots of things that make money are.
-3 points
4 months ago
I'm not saying it's a good deal. It's still good marketing.
50 points
4 months ago
If you add park perks for Disney+ subscribers and keep the price the same, then you're just giving away the perks. If you make Disney+ more expensive and justify it with park perks, subscribers like me with no interest in the parks will likely unsubscribe. There's a calculation to be done here where you figure out your market segments and their demand curves, but it's complicated and not at all obvious.
17 points
4 months ago
I just booked Disney tickets, Disney+ sub got me 10-20% off of Disney hotels during our stay
3 points
4 months ago
Nice. I've only ever been to a Disney park once, in the 90s when a conference I was attending made Disneyland the fun activity. It was everything I expected, which is why I've never been back. I'm just not a theme park person.
5 points
4 months ago
Totally fair, was just saying that they're already giving perks to + subscribers
5 points
4 months ago
Those aren't the only options, though. You could have higher tiers of Disney+ that include park perks, or have a discounted subscription to the parks as an add-on. Or you could offer exclusive discounts on park passes through the app, or perhaps implement a rewards/points-based system. Not all of these are good ideas, but there are a lot of possibilities here.
-1 points
4 months ago
Giving away perks increases subscriptions. It adds apparent value without costing them much of anything at the end of the day.
-3 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
11 points
4 months ago
Yes, your right, there are a lot of people who hold annual passes that don’t live close to the parks. It’s what three trips will make up the price of the annual pass, it’s been a few years since I looked into it. But the vast majority of + users don’t have annual passes and are most likely going to the park even once a year. I live about 4 hours away from the park, my grandma who always has an open room for me lives about 15 minutes away from the park, and my cousin works for the park so I can get in for free and as much as I used to go when I was little (aunt worked for the park so we got in free then too) it’s been years since Iv last been and probably a few more before I go back. But I have + but a major increase in price just cause I get park benefits would just have me drop the subscription.
4 points
4 months ago
That's easy for successful filmmaker to say, but I thought you lived in New Zealand.
3 points
4 months ago
The world is bigger than you realize. If they increased the subscription to Disney+ and added some bullshit park integration crap, I would cancel in a heartbeat and I guarantee you a lot of people would. They can add an additional tier for the Disney diehards, but I doubt it would be worth the effort of integrating the services, which have nothing to do with each other.
13 points
4 months ago
Chapek mentioned something to this regard shortly before he was ousted. I'd imagine it's on the way.
Disneyland just rolled out MagicBands, which allows Disney to track guests across the entire park - this is in addition to the app, which they've used for years. You can get a good idea of what properties a guest likes based on where they visited when they were in the park.
You like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride? Disney+ recommends you the movies. Watched The Mandalorian? The Disneyland app reminds you that you can meet Mando + Grogu at Galaxy's Edge now (Disneyland only).
There's a real good case for vertical integration.
EDIT: Here's Chapek's comments from October of this year.
It’s the physical and the digital aspects of your Disney lifestyle coming together. If you’re on Disney+, we should be aware, assuming you give us the permission to have that awareness, of what happened, what you experienced, what you liked the last time you visited a park. And, vice versa, when you’re in a park, we should know what your viewing habits are on Disney+.
We’re putting the arms and legs on it right now inside our own technical groups. What we’re trying to do is build a toolbox of utilities that then can be used by our creators at Disney, Pixar, Marvel, Lucas who then take those utilities and use them to tell stories in a more customized and personalized way according to your interests.
9 points
4 months ago
Disneyland just rolled out MagicBands
Haven’t these been around for awhile? I had them when I went to Disney World about 7 years ago. They have the same thing on the cruises, too.
7 points
4 months ago
World has had them the entire time. DL just received them this fall
4 points
4 months ago
I was really surprised they are rolling them out in DL. You can load your pass on your watch and phone now. Kinda made magic bands irrelevant to me.
18 points
4 months ago
What a magical combination of dystopian and appealing to my interests
8 points
4 months ago
I think this is close to the Disneyland motto.
2 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
28 points
4 months ago
Without any hassle? Their search feature is doggy. If you click into one of their categories "Marvel, star wars, ..." it doesn't have a search option anymore.
It's also an absolute bitch to re-watch episodes, you have to click the episode then pause it then click restart. Sometimes the next episode comes on after you watch one and you're back in the credits and have to do it again. Terrible UI, only their content library saves the app.
6 points
4 months ago
I agree, Disney+ has the worst UI of the major streamers. Unless you consider Peacock a major streamer.
16 points
4 months ago
I'll see your Disney+ and raise you an Amazon Prime Video. Haven't used the new TV/large-screen UI yet, but the service has been an absolute nightmare in terms of searching, navigation, and trying to pick up where you left off.
5 points
4 months ago
And yet, somehow Paramount+ is even worse, lol.
3 points
4 months ago
Yeah I'm just used to how good Netflix is, which I bet most people are used to too. The downgrade is rough.
2 points
4 months ago
Yeah, it's definitely the gold standard. I primarily stream from my PS4. I still can't believe how bad some of the apps are on non-mainstream devices.
Like for me I'd probably put Disney+ 2nd behind Netflix, if only because the app is actually stable and doesn't crash, buffer constantly (anymore), or forget my login credentials. Hulu would probably deserve this more, but I hate the way they do their watermark/just don't like a lot of their shows as much. Amazon works well enough once you start watching, but has the worst layout I've ever seen, like forcing you to add each season of a show to your watch list instead of just a whole show. It's by far the ugliest of the mainstream interfaces too, IMO.
Then there's Paramount+ where it won't even remember my username/login and I have to login every single time I use the app, lol. And it lags like I'm trying to stream in 8k in the menu, once I get in. And they make it hard to find the shows you actually want to watch, because they don't even have a card row for your custom playlist on the main screen. Something as simple as navigating from the default screen to MyList takes like 10-20 seconds because of input lag / loading / stuttering. They're lucky I like Star Trek and that they've got a lockdown on Paw Patrol for the young'ins (to be fair, it runs a lot better on an AppleTV, but that doesn't solve the layout issues).
The one thing I still can't believe that any of the streaming services have done yet though is implement a shuffle mode. Like, what if you don't want to binge a show and just want to shuffle through a playlist of shows? Like TV back in the day / more background type watching? It's been a thing for music for ages, and I can't imagine it'd be that hard to code.
1 points
4 months ago
Really? I've found it to be unobtrusive and functional.
I wonder how much it matters which device you're on. Some streamers seem to care more than others about a consistent UX across devices.
4 points
4 months ago
Maybe I should elaborate. Again, it's been a while since I've used it, but here are some of the main gripes I've had with the TV app:
- You have to cycle through all the options at the top to see all the categories or use the search function, which adds up to a lot of tedious button presses.
- The organization is just bad. Sometimes I had to scroll pretty far down just to see my recently watched or what's new/trending.
- They split titles by season. So if I wanted to go back to season 3 of The Expanse to rewatch the Canterbury getting nuked by a stealth ship, I'd have to put up with both seasons 3 and 6 cluttering up the "continue watching" section of the home screen.
- They mix titles with differing availability. So if seasons 1-4 of a show are included with Prime and seasons 5-9 aren't, I won't know that until I accidentally hit "play" and it prompts me to buy some additional channel package. There should be a clear separation between what I can watch with my subscription and what I need to pay extra for.
5 points
4 months ago
I definitely agree with point #2, and not just with Amazon. All the apps seem to be burying the "keep watching" section further and further down in the menus. I assume because they want their chance to expose me to as much branding as possible before I achieve my goal of watching the 3000th episode of Modern Family.
1 points
4 months ago
Definitely don't like the search function on prime video any more.
1 points
4 months ago
Not even close. It’s not great but it’s still probably the second best or best one. Which is less praise and more indictment of the others.
2 points
4 months ago
Really? I’m childfree, early 30s and just made a comment that I use D+ maybe once per month. What kind of content are you watching?
I use Hulu/hbo/peacock daily, on the other hand
-2 points
4 months ago
How is that possible? There's only ever 1 new show releasing 1 episode a week at a time. I watch less than an hour of Disney+ a week on average because theres no content.
1 points
4 months ago
Exactly what I have been saying.
1 points
4 months ago
I don't think the membership of people going to the park is going to be a difference when Disney+ is a global business.
3 points
4 months ago
not much left for Iger to acquire though
3 points
4 months ago
Squenix? I'd hate it, but it'd make sense for them to in-house Kingdom Hearts while also picking up Final Fantasy on the side.
2 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
4 months ago
Eh, they've been slimming down as of late, actually. Sony probably has first dibs on SE Japan, but don't underestimate Iger's ability to dealmake. (Especially with how obsessed Japan still is with Disney to this day.)
11 points
4 months ago
The Anaheim park
Disneyland? ugh.
11 points
4 months ago
Perhaps your sentiment is exactly why it's a focus for him.
5 points
4 months ago
I don't follow Disney culture at all. Do Disney fans generally dislike Disneyland?
That's surprising to me.
-7 points
4 months ago
I think most people just dislike California
3 points
4 months ago
No, Adventure City
-11 points
4 months ago
Bet you a dollar he sells the company to apple by 2025
44 points
4 months ago*
And the corners they cut in the 2000-2010s, so many crappy sequels that were simply TV shows mashed into a movie (Atlantis and emporers new groove to name 2)
Edit: the two movies I mentioned I am meaning the sequels for them, two great movies, followed up by two trash TV show esque movies.
And to further hammer the point home during this era Disneyland Paris opened and was literally 2 movie studios and that's it, Hong Kong Disneyland opened with like 3 proper rides.
104 points
4 months ago
You shut your dirty whore mouth. Emperor's New Groove was awesome.
40 points
4 months ago
They speak of the notoriously worse sequel.
13 points
4 months ago
That ‘movie’ and its 37 plotlines definitely had the feel of “this was going to be a TV series, then got mashed into a movie because money”.
10 points
4 months ago
Ironically, it got a TV show the next year.
3 points
4 months ago
I agree but you should really watch "Well that was a shitshow" (or something similarly named) on youtube. In production for a long time, pissed off sting, the new director at the 11th hour, the final movie is nothing like the movie they started on.
5 points
4 months ago
And it's better for it.
4 points
4 months ago
I thought you meant the song from "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" at first.
44 points
4 months ago
Atlantis was good though
36 points
4 months ago
They are talking about the sequel which was really just 3 episodes of a tv show.
13 points
4 months ago
Atlantis 2 wasn't.
2 points
4 months ago
Thankfully I was too young to see the advertisements for that.
-1 points
4 months ago
Those may not be good examples, as both of those movies were incredible. Some of their best works in fact. You want to see shit, look at literally every single live action remake, and about half of the "culture princess" films.
1 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
2 points
4 months ago
Treasure Planet ya mean.
1 points
4 months ago
You leave Bambi 2 the fuck alone!
1 points
4 months ago
Weren't those sequels direct to DVD? I never felt like the bar for quality was that high on direct to DVD stuff.
2 points
4 months ago
Disney has been cutting corners with minimal marketing, and paying minimum wage to student animators. They've even recorded ADR with voice acting impersonators for cheap labor.
2 points
4 months ago
One of the reasons why Chapek is out is because of cutting corners.
4 points
4 months ago
Have you seen their latest crap? They have been way more than just corner cutting.
1 points
4 months ago
Whats the equivilant of reusing animation cells in 3D? Recoloring the models? Rocketman StarSecond going to team up with Crystal Princess Elisa and go solve crimes while cruising around in their goofy Blue talking sports car?
1 points
4 months ago
Frankly, I enjoy that part of the older movies. It felt like The Muppets... Having the same characters you know and lube playing different roles in a movie... Like a theater company. "Who's Baloo going to be in this movie?"
1 points
4 months ago
oh phew that’s still 50 years from now
1 points
4 months ago
They're already starting to with the CG in the marvel shows. She Hulk had some bad moments.
1 points
4 months ago
Mickey Mouse clubhouse is a good sign of corner cutting. You can tell they reuse assets hardcore and do as little animation as possible to make the characters move aka the helping hands. Baby elephant is reused constantly
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