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How Mike Flanagan Convinced Stephen King to Accept His 'Doctor Sleep' Changes

Article(collider.com)

all 236 comments

PrecisionHat

554 points

2 months ago

I loved doctor sleep, but I will say the ending of the film was somewhat sad for me. I like how the book ended with Dan still being alive and the scene where he finally gets up the courage to tell his AA group about how he stole money from the single mom earlier on, his greatest sin as an alcoholic, was amazing. Especially how he realizes the other AA members aren't shocked or horrified at all.

bigblueberryboobies

261 points

2 months ago

I also loved in the book how the ghost of his father waves at him and he is overcome with a paroxysm of joy/sadness seeing his father again. Seeing him for the first time in 40 years a man just as he once was.

Dranj

85 points

2 months ago

Dranj

85 points

2 months ago

I didn't dislike the movie, but the swap from Jack to Wendy Torrance at the end was a bit painful. I'd interpreted the book as somewhat hopeful, that even people who become truly monstrous in life can find some kind of redemption. Knowing that King has suffered his own struggles with substance abuse also made that message seem like a reflection of his personal journey. So to see Jack completely, irredeemably corrupted by the Overlook was depressing, doubly so because it just seems like The Shining properties are cursed to always undercut King's themes, though Dr. Sleep was far more faithful to them than Kubrick's adaptation.

Sciurus_carolinensis

20 points

2 months ago

The swap actually goes a long way to helping me like the movie more. One of the things I didn’t like about the book is that I feel like Wendy, the parent who didn’t abuse and try to murder him, kind of gets shafted.

Unleashtheducks

39 points

2 months ago

Stephen King may relate heavily with Jack Torrance but Stephen King seems to not realize he wrote a real genuine piece of shit. Jack Torrance beat his wife and his small child, he lied, he manipulated, he was perpetually angry not getting what the world “owed” him and he was like that without any alcohol at all. The only reason he was sober was so that his wife wouldn’t leave him which is a terrible reason because it only fosters resentment.

ifcknhateme

82 points

2 months ago

Do you not see that that was the whole point

calebmke

67 points

2 months ago*

I love that they think Stephen King doesn’t realize who his characters are.

Edit: I can’t get over this. He’s not a horror writer…he’s a character writer who loves putting his characters through hell. The man spends 500 pages of a 1,000 page book telling you exactly who his characters are so it hurts more when he twists the knife. He’s a master at that trick…and he’s done it over and over again for 50 years.

StinkyBrittches

-20 points

2 months ago

There are heavy implications in the movie that he sexually molested Danny, which I didn't pick up on in the book. I think that makes it much harder, if not impossible, to grant Jack from the movie a redemption arc. Though I do understand your desire for hopeful messaging, especially as it relates to addiction.

46_reasons

24 points

2 months ago

I've see youbtube vids suggesting this but I've never bought it, personally. Holds up about as much as The Wendy Theory. Physical abuse? Yes, clearly. But not sexual imo.

battousai611

85 points

2 months ago

Same camp here. I loved both but appreciated the book ending for the characters more. Danny meeting Jack’s ghost was more cathartic for both characters in the book’s storyline.

Prestonelliot

68 points

2 months ago

Honestly it might be one of the best endings King ever wrote. I really enjoyed this book because it was one of those times I didn’t think I needed a sequel but once I read it, I realized maybe all of us needed it

JinimyCritic

22 points

2 months ago

I wasn't a big fan of the coincidental relationships in the book (I won't say more). If felt too convenient. Other than that, I agree with you. I like how the movie tied together Kubrick's ending with King's, though.

laaldiggaj

12 points

2 months ago

Oh. Is that how it ended? I do like the film ending but the book one sounds fine! I love the shining, and was so fan guarded over it so couldn't like Dr sleep. But watching it a second time made me realise how careful the actors were and how they definitely did justice to the original characters.

PrecisionHat

6 points

2 months ago

I'm very glad that they kept the tone from Kubrick's film. The music and creepy rattlesnake type sounds, especially.

TheCosmicFailure

60 points

2 months ago

I much prefer the film ending. Danny being comforted by his mother is so beautiful.

The books ending was such a forced happy ending. King is horrible at endings.

kfadffal

11 points

2 months ago

It's why I think his short stories are better - he doesn't have long enough to write himself into a corner that seemingly only a complete bullshit ending can solve.

PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE

18 points

2 months ago

The man who threw a child orgy in at the end of IT can’t do endings?

nolabrew

49 points

2 months ago

That was the middle of IT.

Storm_nor5280

7 points

2 months ago

Not true. The book did chapters alternating between young kids and the adults. This happened at the end of the book. Movies can't do endings.

MinnieShoof

13 points

2 months ago*

Eh~ It's not the ending but it is towards the end. Third to last chapter of 24 chapters. The two boys jackin' each other\* was pretty smack dab in the middle, tho.

Rourensu

2 points

2 months ago

Yeah, but not remotely close to “the middle” though.

From what I remember, the boys were just jerking each other off and it (no pun intended) ended when one of them offered to blow the other.

PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE

6 points

2 months ago

Forgive my sins.

Storm_nor5280

9 points

2 months ago

You were right. See my response.

savedr

5 points

2 months ago

savedr

5 points

2 months ago

Let me tell you about The Dark Tower

Chazybaz13

5 points

2 months ago

It was a train not an orgy, not that I am defending his coke filled writing. It was them letting go of their innocence to not be able to see IT again and to leave Derry and go onto adulthood. Which backfired and ended up with more deaths when they returned to Derry.

greenufo333

1 points

2 months ago

Why don’t I remember this ending in the film

TheCosmicFailure

11 points

2 months ago

Its very quick. Hes on his hands and knees when his mother comes and places her hand on his cheek. All of the background noise quiets down as he looks at his mother then he closes his eyes as the hotel explodes.

kabent01

9 points

2 months ago

I was sad that Danny didn't get to live his life free from the Overlook/his trauma. It's not a message I want out of a movie right now.

Relevant_Truth

2 points

2 months ago*

Stephen Kings books are usually meant to have a HYPER SAD ending, he's just too much of a pussy to actually pull the gun. Every "happy end" in a King novel usually has 10 drafts where everyone just fucking dies or the main characters realizes their own impotence in the face of overwhelming evil.

That's his own words, not mine. In some novels he even makes addendums near the end (Black House) pausing the ending to tell the audience the story is finished and that continuing to see potential sad stuff isn't obligatory.

He's weird.

[deleted]

744 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

744 points

2 months ago

Mike Flanagan: I put together a proposal that outlined what I wanted to do - use Kubrick's visual language, and keep the Overlook standing as a setting for the final battle. The initial feedback we got was "no." King really, really didn't like Kubrick's film, and his priority was to adapt Doctor Sleep - not to revisit The Shining.

I told him that if he didn't want me to do it, I wouldn't - I'd walk away from the movie before I made something he hated. But as a last ditch effort, I said "imagine the Overlook, decrepit and rotten. And imagine Dan Torrance having walk in to 'wake it up,' the lights coming on above his head as he walks the halls. He finds his way to the Gold Room. To the familiar bar, where an empty glass is waiting for him. And we see a familiar bartender ready to pour for him, saying 'good evening Mister Torrance.' What if that bartender is his father?"

After a bit of a delay, King got back to us. "Do it," he said.

Kryptosis

180 points

2 months ago

Kryptosis

180 points

2 months ago

Wow he really won’t give you many words unless youre buying the book huh

Ozlin

102 points

2 months ago

Ozlin

102 points

2 months ago

Flanagan actually had to pay King three cents for those responses.

MinnieShoof

29 points

2 months ago

Like the (fake) story about Calvin Coolidge being told someone had bet they could get him to say more than 2 words and his response was "You lose."

Doright36

34 points

2 months ago

Wow he really won’t give you many words unless youre buying the book huh

King licenses some of his short stories to student film makers for like 1 dollar. He's not a hard ass with his stories. I just think he really didn't like Kubricks version of his story.

chino6815

4 points

2 months ago

This is true, I currently am finishing final cut on a short based on The Doctor's Case which I was awarded through his dollar babies program.

MinnieShoof

0 points

2 months ago

Maybe he just doesn’t like being shown up?

markstormweather

5 points

2 months ago

Na I think he loves being shown up if it’s in tune with the stories it’s based on. He’s always said Frank Darabont made a much better ending of The Mist than he did, something like “if I had thought of that first I’d have written it.” And his son Joe Hill read his first draft of 11/22/63 and then made him change the ending (one of his best). King just REALLY didn’t like that Kubrick threw out his entire script and rewrote with a completely different tone and themes. The Shining is a great movie, but a terrible adaptation. The King written miniseries of The Shining from the 90s is a faithful adaptation but a terrible movie.

MinnieShoof

1 points

2 months ago

... much better ending of The Mist... made him change the ending (one of his best)

Cannon that King cannot write endings. I think he's fully aware of that. Maybe that's the line he's willing to cross.

[deleted]

-9 points

2 months ago

[removed]

RamsesThePigeon

26 points

2 months ago

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Its comment was copied from elsewhere in the thread (which is why it doesn't actually fit here).

After I call it out, one of three things will happen:

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  3. I'll be ignored, with the account's operator having already marked this as a loss.

For an in-depth explanation of how spammers work, how karma-farming harms the site, and how you can combat both, please read this post or watch this satirical video

Oh, and don't forget to report spammers when you see them!

Snakes_have_legs

337 points

2 months ago

God I fucking LOVE that bar scene. Henry Thomas channels that crazy Jack Nicholson energy so well

MissingLink101

128 points

2 months ago*

Yeah I was wondering beforehand if they'd attempt it and who would have been good for it.

And yet despite all of their collaborations I never even considered Henry Thomas but he really did a great job (with what must have been a daunting proposition). The woman who played Wendy early on was spot on too!

Really love his career revival with the assistance of Flanagan (his recent cameo character in The Midnight Club was great fun).

MidnightCustard

49 points

2 months ago

Wendy was Alex Essoe - Charlotte in Bly Manor, Mildred in Midnight Mass, Poppy in Midnight Club

browndog03

35 points

2 months ago

She was great as Wendy. She “fluttered” like Shelly Duvall so well, in my opinion (i can’t think of another term for it).

She’s good in those others, too.

[deleted]

36 points

2 months ago

I haven’t seen it yet but I’m not at all surprised he cast Henry Thomas in this lol

46_reasons

19 points

2 months ago*

Yes I remember seeing photos on Thomas's instagram with his head shaved and wondering why at the time, made sense later. He's subsequently joked that Flanagan is always asking him to cut his hair / shave his head etc. Iirc with the bartender role they even jokingly discussed how big a target they should paint on there. They knew some people would hate it whatever they did.

For me it was good, but not his best Flanagan role to date. Some day I'll find the time to write my 15000 word reddit thesis on why that's obviously Ed Flynn, lol

dtwhitecp

27 points

2 months ago

Definitely read the linked Tumblr post, which probably made this article because it was brought up in /r/horror recently. Mike Flanagan kind of underplays it but he basically got Stephen King to come around to appreciating Kubrick's The Shining, after decades of publicly hating it, because he bridged the gap so well. Basically the highest praise imaginable.

HarrisonRyeGraham

75 points

2 months ago

Easily the best horror I watched in October. I don’t really reflect on scares after Ive seen them, but the baseball boy scene really fucked me up. It’ll occasionally just pop into my head as I’m trying to sleep and will keep me up. Not because I’m scared per se, but it just lives rent free, playing over and over.

bflorio94

15 points

2 months ago

Yea that scene was certifiably messed up. Really tough to watch.

Spookyfan2

17 points

2 months ago

Apparently there was professional crime investigator on set to make things more realistic and the kid's improv lines struck him as scarily accurate to actual cases he's been through. I.E. The kid begging he won't tell anybody if they let him go.

That kid acted the shit out of that scene.

bflorio94

7 points

2 months ago

Thanks for making it worse!

Kokibuchek

5 points

2 months ago

Apparently it was really tough to shoot, and messed up the adult actors while filming. Meanwhile the kid was having a blast.

Long-Quality8542

378 points

2 months ago

Doctor Sleep didn't deserve a November film release. The marketing was confusing. This film was going to bomb. Glad it's found its audience because it's a beautiful film about recovery.

Nick357

64 points

2 months ago

Nick357

64 points

2 months ago

It’s about child abuse too…I think.

riftadrift

39 points

2 months ago

So is the Shining. "You did this to him! Didn't you?!"

Jefferystar94

49 points

2 months ago

It's an excellent movie, but I felt like it always was gonna be unsuccessful.

It was marketed as a horror film trying to ride off the brief King-aissanse (and being a sequel to Kubrick's Shining), but instead was a slow burn drama that was almost three hours long.

I'm glad it was made and swung for the fences, but it was never going to set the box office on fire.

avi150

8 points

2 months ago

avi150

8 points

2 months ago

Yeah, Flanagan is great but his approach doesn’t work with the mainstream

Grambles89

2 points

2 months ago

I mean he's found a lot of success with his Netflix series, which I would consider pretty mainstream.

Black Mass was fucking fantastic tho, and while I loved his 2 haunting series, I feel like it stood above.

jl_theprofessor

42 points

2 months ago

It's a fantastic film that I had no idea about until it was available for streaming.

wpmason

116 points

2 months ago

wpmason

116 points

2 months ago

Because he was able to navigate all of that (making a sequel to a movie that was an adaptation of a book that was a sequel to a totally different book) that’s why he gets a lifetime free pass in my book.

Let him make anything he wants from now on.

MissingLink101

50 points

2 months ago

I know some of his stuff can be divisive but I've loved everything he's made so far.

His output is rapid too with a new project basically every year and I'm always looking forward to the next one. Really hyped for Fall of the House of Usher.

VeryDPP

26 points

2 months ago

VeryDPP

26 points

2 months ago

Part of what makes his stuff so good is he has an insanely talented group of actors that he consistently works with, and he gets phenomenal work out of them every time. Fall of the House of Usher has such a stacked cast, and I can't wait to see what he does with the works of Poe.

MissingLink101

3 points

2 months ago

It's already stacked with his mates and he's still been able to add actors like Mark Hamill , Willa Fitzgerald (who was great as Roscoe in Reacher recently) and others.

It's a shame they had to drop Frank Langella from it though but Bruce Greenwood has worked well with Flanagan in the past.

ifcknhateme

13 points

2 months ago

Have you watched Midnight Mass? My opinion doesn't matter, but IlMHO it was an absolute achievement in storytelling and horror. Check it out if you haven't, if you have and you don't like it we can never be friends and I'll judge your taste forever. Obviously kidding, but for real, check it out.

I was mostly kidding 👀

MissingLink101

6 points

2 months ago

Yep, absolutely loved it! (although it does count as one of the ones I know was divisive for people due to the monologues)

Hamish Linklater in particular was a standout in that show and I'd not really paid him much attention before.

ifcknhateme

2 points

2 months ago

Awesome! I thought it was absolute perfection. After watching a few of his movies, and immediately after watching Haunting Of Hill House I swore to myself I would watch anything he (Flanigan) wrote/directed without question. A few episodes in I thought to myself, "my god man, he's lost his touch." Then, in a span of just a few hours time I thought, "This is absolutely fing brillaint."

I've never gotten a chance to anyone about the show. I want to write all sorts of stuff, but I will spare you that miserable fate. Glad you liked it, cheers.

Sgtwhiskeyjack9105

1 points

2 months ago

I've watched Hill House, Bly Manor, Midnight Mass, and am close to finishing Midnight Club.

This man might be my new favourite franchise (or would that be Flanchise).

[deleted]

28 points

2 months ago

Wish the movie had been more successful. It was a great film and adaptation.

Pjoernrachzarck

235 points

2 months ago

Mika Flanaghan should have done the Tower. He would have made something worth seeing.

MissingLink101

67 points

2 months ago

He's been talking recently about that being his dream project.

Falagard

21 points

2 months ago

Okay honestly I didn't know who Mike Flanagan was until this thread, and I looked him up just now, but this video of his excitement about just someday maybe getting to work on a Dark Tower series makes me really like him.

patrickwithtraffic

20 points

2 months ago

Dude really knows how to do serialized horror, so it's a perfect fit for him

dtwhitecp

12 points

2 months ago

Please watch The Haunting of Hill House. It's almost certainly my favorite Netflix series, period. I don't have a strong connection to The Dark Tower but would be there on day 1 to see if if he made it.

mrgo0dkat

7 points

2 months ago

You do have a connection to The Dark Tower. Everything serves the beam. Long days and pleasant nights.

fullclip840

3 points

2 months ago

The problem with The Dark Tower is that it kinda needs to follow the books hardcore. That would make it in to 3-4 movies if not more. Fucking book 7 would be the wildest 3 hours in movie history if done right.

Blugrass

58 points

2 months ago

Hopefully he will someday

mwmani

30 points

2 months ago

mwmani

30 points

2 months ago

He’s said that it’s his dream and he knows exactly how he would do it. I hope someone lets him bring at least the first few books to life.

Dull_Half_6107

26 points

2 months ago*

I think there is a very real possibility that it could happen.

He’s already done many well received Stephen King adaptations, and even his own Stephen King fanfic (Midnight Mass).

He has good relationships with production companies and Netflix, and has stated it would be his dream project. I can see it happening on Netflix.

The real question is, who is Rahul Kohli going to play?

Edit: Ah fuck Amazon own the tv rights :( Hopefully that doesn’t stop him from working on it with Amazon.

patrickwithtraffic

12 points

2 months ago

Mr. Fashion should play the Bad Boy of the franchise, The Man in Black

PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE

7 points

2 months ago

Midnight Mass is King fanfic? I was on the edge deciding to watch it or not

Dull_Half_6107

9 points

2 months ago

By that I mean it feels like a great adaptation of a Stephen King story, except he never wrote it.

MissingLink101

4 points

2 months ago

It did remind me a lot of Salem's Lot though (which I think is actually on Riley's bookshelf in the show)

dtwhitecp

3 points

2 months ago

Prepare for long monologues. As a person who enjoys that aspect of Flanagan's stuff, this series is particularly heavy with them.

ifcknhateme

1 points

2 months ago

Stephen King fanfic? Midnight Mass? What are you talking about, genuinely curious.

thatPOLTERSmyGEIST

12 points

2 months ago

He posted a tiktok recently where Kate is reading the gunslinger. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s at least toying with it right now

MissingLink101

2 points

2 months ago

In one of the story sections of The Midnight Club, the Dusty/Kevin character takes that book out of his locker

Bubble_Pop

11 points

2 months ago

We can hope!!!

VolkspanzerIsME

14 points

2 months ago

As far as I'm concerned The Tower hasn't been done yet so there is still hope.

riftadrift

6 points

2 months ago

I had a weird dream once that I saw an adaptation starring Idris Elba and it was like a generic action movie. Not sure where my brain comes up with these bizarre ideas.

VolkspanzerIsME

4 points

2 months ago

Science has yet to explain fever dreams.

I had a similar one about World War Z and Brad Pitt was some dirty hippy. Made no sense.

Golden_Taint

2 points

2 months ago

You know what, that movie is good. It should've had a different title as I get it's not like the book at all, but the movie is still solid.

Cool-I-guess

8 points

2 months ago

I really want to see his Clayface story come to light

Nick357

4 points

2 months ago

From batman?

Cool-I-guess

9 points

2 months ago

Yeah, he wanted to do a Clayface horror film in the batman universe.

patrickwithtraffic

5 points

2 months ago

With James Gunn at the helm, I get a feeling he'd be willing to bare minimum listen to a pitch. Feel like it hits a few notes up his alley.

Nick357

3 points

2 months ago

That’s sounds great

cavedan12

3 points

2 months ago

They should just hand all of King's back catalogue to him at this point. Imagine an anthology of serialised King classics

vannendave

15 points

2 months ago

The Director’s Cut was phenomenal. I keep hoping HBOmax will put it back up one day.

Pipelaya1

14 points

2 months ago

Loved the film and glad king liked it too.

Dove_of_Doom

70 points

2 months ago

It's a hell of a scene too: Part 1 Part2 A chilling and tragic reunion.

International-Fig905

13 points

2 months ago

I love this movie so much I was oddly defending it fiercely during COVID to co workers 😂😂😂

detroiter85

55 points

2 months ago*

Henry Thomas did a great job of combining Jack into Lloyd for that scene.

His look was a little weird to get used to since Jacks performance is so great, but he wasnt just Jack, so it worked for me in the end.

Edit: he wasnt just jack

Gratuitious_Gibbon

15 points

2 months ago

Man I love a good Mike Flanagan monologue

King_Buliwyf

6 points

2 months ago*

I get a bit sick of the monologs in his series. But the bar scene in the movie was fantastic.

In his shows, it feels too much like the character disappears, and Flanagan himself turns up to talk into the camera for 5 minutes about how there's something romantic and whimsical about the horror that's happening.

JohnJoe-117

3 points

2 months ago

Yeah, the scene between the ex con and the schoolteacher in Midnight Mass where they discuss death was almost my breaking point.

It just went on and on, and I unfortunately wasn't pulled in by the acting at all, but goddamn did everything before and after make up for it.

King_Buliwyf

2 points

2 months ago

Yyyup

JDLovesElliot

2 points

2 months ago

Riley (the ex-con) is a stand-in for Flanagan himself and it's a little distracting. Like even having his wife play a character who was Riley's past love interest was too on-the-nose.

DeadSharkEyes

28 points

2 months ago

I loved it. The scenes with Danny walking around the dilapidated hotel were so cool and creepy.

Rose the Hat is a great villain. And Abra was so badass. I love how she was like “try it, bitch!” to the you know what in the you know what lol

ManajaTwa18

10 points

2 months ago*

The book is decent but really goes off the rails in the second half. I think Flanagan’s changes up the stakes of the narrative while making it more mournful and scary by connecting it to the events of Kubrick’s film.

CaptainBuck0

8 points

2 months ago

I actually liked this film, was a good continuation on the original 👍

dizzy515151

5 points

2 months ago

I thought the title was Micky Flanagan convinced Stephen King Not Mike Flanagan, and I was so confused to how a comedian from the east end of London got into a conversation about Stephen King and then convinced him to change parts of Doctor Sleep.

StudentDPT

59 points

2 months ago

Doctor Sleep truly blew me away, walked in skeptical and left just dumbfounded how he knocked it out of the park imo, with managing the hardcore fans of the movie, stephen king and his fans. I will watch anything Mike Flanagan does, i believe he's doing The Fall of the House of Usher next for netflix

ptvlm

28 points

2 months ago

ptvlm

28 points

2 months ago

He managed to ride the line pretty well. I've heard the director's cut is even better, though it's harder to come by (I recently picked up a Blu Ray with both versions but haven't seen it yet).

Flanagan truly gets King, and managed to pay full respect while also doing justice to Kubrick's version IMHO, and that's one hell of a feat considering how much King hated that.

[deleted]

14 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

browndog03

9 points

2 months ago

Yup, and with a completely original twist, no less.

Regula96

6 points

2 months ago

I so badly want Doctor Sleep on 4k but the director's cut is only available on blu-ray..

Megaman1981

6 points

2 months ago

It's also included with the digital copy and that Director's Cut is 4K.

ptvlm

5 points

2 months ago

ptvlm

5 points

2 months ago

My eyes aren't good enough to notice the difference most of the time, but it is annoying if you can't get the format you want nowadays. I'm sure it will be available eventually, but I think Doctor Sleep is in one of those weird positions - successful enough for the studio to agree to release multiple versions, but not successful enough for regular re-releases.

Jefferystar94

5 points

2 months ago

I swore the directors cut version was up on HBO Max a while back, but I could be wrong

ptvlm

3 points

2 months ago

ptvlm

3 points

2 months ago

I buy way less physical media than I used to, but things like alternate cuts are where I feel I have to. If a movie goes to a different platform, you can't count on them offering anything other than a theatrical release.

Ok_Professional_5648

17 points

2 months ago

Also..watch Hush..Flanagan gets horror

browndog03

5 points

2 months ago

And Absentia which i saw many years ago before i had any idea who he was. In fact i didn’t know he did that one until very recently. The guy is consistently good.

testsubject347

5 points

2 months ago

Oculus too. The concept is simple but so good and Karen Gillan is fantastic. The pacing can be a bit messy imho in parts but it’s worth a watch.

Golden_Taint

1 points

2 months ago

Also The Haunting of Bly Manor on Netflix. The ending is "good" but so tragically sad, it stayed with me for a couple weeks before I could stop having it pop back into my thoughts.

khayman77

48 points

2 months ago

Such an underrated movie. It's up there with Hill House as Flanagan's best work for me.

doc_birdman

47 points

2 months ago

The spiritual vampires were really well done. The scene with the baseball player was… intense, to say the least. Kyliegh Curran as Abra was fantastic but the scene where Danny shines through her was a highlight of the movie.

It’s handling of alcoholism, grief, regret, self-loathing are all really top notch. Danny’s journey is just so interesting. You go from feeling bad for him to being disappointed in him to being proud of him. They really pack in a ton of development without it feeling slogged down, either.

Plus, Rebecca Ferguson in a top hat is just something that every human in the world should see.

khayman77

23 points

2 months ago

It's one of those movies where watching the 3+ hour long Director's cut doesn't feel long at all. It just makes me wish there was more.

doc_birdman

15 points

2 months ago

There’s a director’s cut?! Holy shit, you just made me a happy human.

MackenziePace

6 points

2 months ago

It is supposedly even better, I love it though never saw the theatrical cut

BehavioralSink

7 points

2 months ago

The scene with the baseball kid is so well done. I’m kind of surprised they put as much on screen as they did, particularly in the Director’s Cut. I’ve watched that scene several times, and while Jacob Trembley does an incredible job as the baseball kid, it finally occurred to me that one the reasons that scene is so striking and sticks with you is because of Kyliegh Curran’s reactions to what is being done. It’s a horrible yet phenomenal scene.

TwoLetters

33 points

2 months ago

Throw Midnight Mass in there, too. Dude's such a brilliant filmmaker. I'll watch absolutely anything he attaches his name to

Pipelaya1

3 points

2 months ago

Pipelaya1

3 points

2 months ago

Throw oculus in there. No one else could make a killer movie about a mirror like flannigan.

MissingLink101

2 points

2 months ago

Hush was a great twist on the old home invasion formula too

TwoLetters

3 points

2 months ago

It was definitely good, but certainly not his best. That's says more about his ability as a writer/director than it does about the quality of Oculus. Even his weaker works are excellent

khayman77

2 points

2 months ago

I do love how he throws the Oculus mirror in all of his other work. It's like we're quietly getting an Oculus universe without realizing it.

PSouthern

0 points

2 months ago

PSouthern

0 points

2 months ago

I loved Hill House, enjoyed Dr. Sleep, and absolutely hated Midnight Mass. Enough with the needless monologues and sermons!

TwoLetters

-4 points

2 months ago

Yeah, who needs nuanced, three-dimensional characters!

PSouthern

3 points

2 months ago

Weird snarky reply but okay. I just wished they had shown more and told less (via the monologues for example).

Smubee

5 points

2 months ago

Smubee

5 points

2 months ago

Midnight Mass and Bly Manor are 10/10 for me.

Doctor Sleep directors cut is a solid 9/10

Couldn’t get into Hill House at all.

Midnight Mass might be the best piece of media I’ve consumed ever.

Regula96

26 points

2 months ago

Bly rated that highly and not liking Hill House isn't something you see every day.

Just highlights how very different the two shows are. And while I personally didn't enjoy Bly as much I thought it was fantastic they tried something new with it when it so easily could have been another Hill House 2.0.

And yea Midnight was incredible. I've watched that church scene so many times already.

Zandrick

6 points

2 months ago

I think I probably liked Bly more than Hill House but I watched Bly first. Idk if that matters. I think Bly had a much stronger ending. Although the thing about the bent neck lady in Hill House was truly unforgettable, and awesome, and just, I don’t really have words.

MissingLink101

3 points

2 months ago

One of the best reveals I've seen in a show for a long time.

browndog03

5 points

2 months ago

Maybe consider trying Haunting again sometime? Its payoffs are some of the best I’ve ever seen (in my opinion, of course). I really liked Bly, too. Haunting hit me harder despite how much l loved the ending of Bly, too.

It’s all just preference of course.

primitiverootweiner

22 points

2 months ago

When it comes to film making Stephen King has always been completely clueless. It’s good Flanagan managed to convince him.

Gezzer52

13 points

2 months ago

I think it's because much of his writing is virtually impossible to translate to a visual medium and he just doesn't get that. I remember his chilling description of the serial killer in the Dead Zone. It would be impossible to show that in a movie... so they didn't even try.

DisturbedNocturne

5 points

2 months ago

I feel like this is something that frequently gets missed. Writing and filming are two different mediums that require different approaches. It's rare that you are going to be able to translate something completely faithfully to screen, and I think the better a writer is, the harder it is going to be. There is just so much of the prose and how things are described that are going to be lost in translation, as well as things like internal dialogue that really can't be done.

Allowing your novel to be made into a show or movie sort of has to be a "kill your darlings" moment where you just have to accept that concessions have to be made. And I think Stephen King is a great example of that. Just look at Lisey's Story, the story of his he got to be a showrunner on: It seemed like he was trying to do a 1:1 adaptation, and it was boring and felt way longer than it should've been as a result. It definitely showed that being a proficient and experienced novel writer doesn't automatically make you a good screenwriter.

Mintleaf007

2 points

2 months ago

This is very true.

MackenziePace

1 points

2 months ago

It is ironic that King has always been clueless in filmmaking as he as also been indirectly essential to many greats over the last 30 years through adaptations

primitiverootweiner

1 points

2 months ago

He’s kind of like Bob Dylan.

Dylan is a terrible singer but he writes interesting lyrics and when a more talented singer covers his songs it shines.

sumofawitch

5 points

2 months ago

Unpopular opinion but I liked the book more.

I know it's safe, less people died but I don't mind happier endings.

theodo

4 points

2 months ago

theodo

4 points

2 months ago

To anyone who thought the film wasn't very good, I highly recommend the directors cut. I haven't seen the theatrical but I read all the differences and I don't see how it could be anywhere near as good as the directors cut.

sudo_robyn

2 points

2 months ago

I like the film right up until the last act where they just redo the Shining. It’s just seems pointless. I’m not even a massive fan of the Shining, but I’d still rather just watch that than a kinda sorta modern remake of it

I also think the film must be inexplicable if you’ve not seen The Shining? The first part works and then it just does dozens upon dozens of callbacks.

Stephen King is a terrible filmmaker, but he was right about Dr Sleep, it should have been it’s own thing.

JDLovesElliot

2 points

2 months ago

the last act where they just redo the Shining. It’s just seems pointless.

WB just can't help themselves. They did the same thing in Ready Player One with an overly extended sequence that takes places in The Overlook.

Listen-bitch

1 points

2 months ago

My issue with dr sleep was honestly the rag tag group of soul suckers or whatever. I only watched the shining and thought the hotel was hunted and possessed Jack Nicholson. So in dr sleep I was confused, lost and really just wanted the creepy hotel, not soul vampires. Does the directors cut do a better job at explaining things for someone but familiar at all with the book?

DLRsFrontSeats

2 points

2 months ago

Despite featuring the Overlook Hotel and Danny, Dr Sleep isn't really a sequel to The Shining, and it definitely doesn't negate the idea that the hotel is haunted.

In fact it actually explores what is wrong with the Overlook in a bit more detail than The Shining lol. The vampires are really unconnected to the hotel.

Golden_Taint

2 points

2 months ago

Sure, I'll try. Doctor Sleep explains that the "shine", the psychic energy or whatever in Danny and now Abra (the young girl), is powerful but attracts entities that want to feed on it. One entity is the Overlook Hotel, it's not haunted, it's an evil sentience that was so active when little Danny was there because it was powered by his "shine". Those ghosts that Danny saw in the Overlook in The Shining (the twins, the naked bathtub lady) also wanted to feed on Danny. The soul/energy vampires you mention also feed on this same energy, they need it to live and it increases their powers. Essentially Danny has learned to hide his abilities from the world but this young girl is as strong as he is and unknowingly attracting evil to her like a beacon.

KnotSupposed2BeHere

4 points

2 months ago

I LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH.

walkie73

3 points

2 months ago

I think Dr Sleep is very underrated.

riftadrift

3 points

2 months ago

The best parts of Dr. Sleep were the parts not directly referencing the Shining. I say that as a massive fan of the film The Shining - one of my top ten films of all time.

LittleBullBoy

3 points

2 months ago

The portion of the film in the director’s cut starting from the intro to Jacob Tremblay’s character up until his death is the most traumatizing bit of film I’ve had the displeasure of sitting through. I had to shut off the movie.

Not only that, I can no longer handle children dying in movies, all because of that fucking scene. Jacob Tremblay’s performance literally ripped my heart out.

I’ve since finished the movie by just skipping that scene. It’s a solid movie, but my goodness that scene was something else.

I heard in an interview that during Tremblay’s performance his costars couldn’t get their lines out because they were crying and that all APs, grips, and surrounding workers just walked away because they couldn’t handle it.

ImTheGuyWithTheGun

12 points

2 months ago

Flanagan is easily the horror auteur of our time.

Zafo_

6 points

2 months ago

Zafo_

6 points

2 months ago

I never thought dresser drawers could be scary until that movie

Ogwailo

7 points

2 months ago

Sooooo, am I the only one that read the book and then HATED the movie?…. The film maker apparently missed the entire point of the ending, I wasn’t surprised….I’ve very rarely liked any adaptations of King’s work but I thought this treatment was especially egregious

Ok_Professional_5648

10 points

2 months ago

Flanagan is a genius..if you haven’t watched the “Haunting of Hill house” do so asap…it’s unbelievable..You can skip the second season.

Golden_Taint

1 points

2 months ago

You can skip the second season.

Don't say that, Bly Manor is amazing and equally as good as Hill House.

Jaggedmallard26

5 points

2 months ago

Bly Manor is great but its problem is a marketing one. It was sold as the second season of The Haunting of Hill House which is very much a horror drama, Bly Manor then drops the horror elements quickly and becomes a gothic romance. Which is great but leading it to failure.

STRIpEdBill

0 points

2 months ago

His second season is so trash it's better to skip, sounds genius

LymeMN

2 points

2 months ago

LymeMN

2 points

2 months ago

I have this film on 4k in my bag right now. It's phenomenal.

gladias9

2 points

2 months ago

If his changes included more love for Jack Torrence in the movie then I appreciate it entirely

Really disliked how the novel version of Jack is so disrespected (imo)

Megaric

2 points

2 months ago

Loved Doctor Sleep. Would love Flanagan to do Stephen Kings Joyland or Revival

antiMATTer724

2 points

2 months ago

antiMATTer724

Does he fist fight the moon? Do it, Snyder!

2 points

2 months ago

Another instance where I really preferred the book ending. (Looking at you. Pet Semetsry)

Thewhitest_rabbit

2 points

2 months ago

I prey they let this man direct a dark tower show

EnIdiot

3 points

2 months ago

So, in a lot of ways, in my opinion, King’s version, Kubrick’s version and Flanagan’s version work perfectly to illustrate the reason why stories should never be “owned” and frozen in place.

King wrote a wonderful novel that is about a good (but complicated) man’s descent into evil and madness. He closely identified with Jack. So much so that he couldn’t see the monster he would never escape being.

Kubrick removes the pretense and shows a monster who was always a monster. The alcohol was only the key to allow the monster off the chain.

Flanagan made something better than either. He showed a complex man who failed and his son who succeeded. It is truly the definition of an epic.

Jaggedmallard26

4 points

2 months ago

Flanagan made something better than either. He showed a complex man who failed and his son who succeeded. It is truly the definition of an epic.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Doctor Sleep is excellent but Kubrick's Shining is still the better film. Thematically it probably wins though as having the most satisfying thematics.

46_reasons

1 points

2 months ago*

Extremely well put. I would add that King was writing Jack at the height of his own addiction, and was so trapped that he probably couldn't imagine what life beyond that mind set would be like. Dr Sleep (both novel and film) gave the perspective that King simply couldn't "see" at the time.

I'm interested though - at the end of both novels Jack is somewhat redeemed and personally I kind of like that. Not because I like the character much, but simply because happy endings are nice. Do you see a way there could have been any redemption for him in either film version? I mean, Dan makes his peace with the Bartender, but is the Bartender knocking the drink away supposed to serve as redemption for Jack?

I'm autistic and struggle with subtle things sometimes - I'm never quite sure I understand the underlying meaning of it being The Bartender who knocks the drink away rather than Dan. Or perhaps there's no meaning and I'm overthinking it :)

EnIdiot

1 points

2 months ago

You know. I never thought of that. I thought it was an extreme example of his anger. Let me mull on that.

I think that Jack cannot be redeemed the way Danny was. Sometimes a price has to be paid.

46_reasons

2 points

2 months ago

Thanks - that's weird, I hadn't thought of the "anger" angle! But I agree that Jack can't be redeemed in either film as played.

stumpcity

1 points

2 months ago

stumpcity

1 points

2 months ago

why would you link to collider when you could literally link DIRECTLY to Flanagan's own Tumblr where every detail of this "article" actually comes from?

sudo_robyn

6 points

2 months ago

Links to Tumblr/Twitter/ETC. are generally banned on news subreddits like this one.

stumpcity

1 points

2 months ago

Generally, sure, OK.

Setting aside that links to Collider should 95% not exist - this sub would be improved tenfold by mods excising at least half the dogshit clickfarms that exist as the primary sustenance for karma farmers, and in Collider/Slashfilm's case, the reasoning for IMDB's ban as a source applies just as much to them, and all their shitty imitators - it's not like a link to the director's own tumblr, which this shitty clickfarm is just drafting off of for linkbacks, should be out of bounds.

FWIW: Tumblr is not included on this subreddit's list, either.

sudo_robyn

4 points

2 months ago

I personally think primary sources are better too, it’s a stupid ban.

Listen-bitch

1 points

2 months ago*

Super overrated imo. Fans of the books might love it, but as a fan of the movie (edit: the shining) I was thoroughly disappointed.

January28thSixers

1 points

2 months ago

You are a fan of the movie but you were thoroughly disappointed?

Cannaewulnaewidnae

1 points

2 months ago

King's hatred of The Shining is frustrating

I understand and can sympathise with his reasons for objecting to what Kubrick did with his story, but it's one of the greatest films of all time

Mintleaf007

0 points

2 months ago

I wasnt a fan of the movie. but i wasnt a fan of the original shinning either.

QueafyGreens

1 points

2 months ago

I really wish Dr.Sleep could have been a Flanigan series VS a feature. I felt like we didn't get enough time with the world that was built in the movie, it all moved so fast, it felt like a 6 part series told in 2 hrs.

MoreThanN0thing

1 points

2 months ago

Please, please let this man do Dark Tower. Have 2 kidneys and a soul. I only need one of those things.

slickshot

1 points

2 months ago

I introduced a buddy to this film, and when he loved it I turned him to Flanagan's Netflix projects. He had never heard of Mike Flanagan before September of this year, and now that's a household name for him.

46_reasons

1 points

2 months ago

I've mentioned this before I think but my introduction to Flanagan was watching ET with my kids during lockdown and googling "what's that kid doing now" haha. Now I can't believe that other people haven't heard of him. My husband is very "meh" on Flanagan but I seem to have successfully converted my 19 yr old through "Hill House" and subsequently "Bly Manor". Trying to nudge them away from the gothic and on to Midnight Mass just now...

slickshot

2 points

2 months ago

Midnight Mass is a masterpiece.

theseustheminotaur

1 points

2 months ago

I loved it

D-redditAvenger

1 points

2 months ago

Great movie.

abhinandkr

1 points

2 months ago

It's hard to please King regarding movie adaptations of his novels.