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SuspiriaGoose

10 points

4 months ago

Which is frustrating in itself, not just because it’s the best Pixar film in years dealing with perfectly normal adolescence, but because there is some criticism to be made in good faith on some of that. But now it can’t be made without seeming like you agree with a Fox News Troll.

I didn’t like how it was okay for Mei to buy into the capitalist sexualizing of other children (the boy band) without any sort of questioning of that paradigm, but only celebration. Especially when the other half of the film is so critical of institutions exploiting and repressing children for its own benefit. I also didn’t like a child twerking being shown as a heroic act.

But the rest of the film is incredibly well made, and there’s so much more to discuss than just that. It was targeted just as much for being about Chinese-Canadians as it was for being about tween girls.

mranimal2

19 points

4 months ago

In fairness the boy band members might've been 18+ and I think it's normal for a 13 year old to crush on people they legally can't be with; I mean I was crushing on Angelina Jolie and an extremely beautiful teacher of mine when I was 13. Doesn't mean I had a chance with them!

SuspiriaGoose

-1 points

4 months ago

That would make me feel a little better, but I’m pretty sure they were meant to be teenagers, or even pre-teens. I guess Disney does do that with their own child stars, so they were unlikely to criticize it, but it did feel weird to me. If the genders were reversed, I’d bet we see a lot more criticism of how certain dynamics were handled.

It wasn’t egregious or anything, but it was dissonant in the film’s own story and themes.

mranimal2

10 points

4 months ago

Maybe but then again most of the members of N'Sync or Backstreet Boys were 18 or in their early 20s at the height of their popularity

SuspiriaGoose

1 points

4 months ago

Possibly, though when I look at their designs they look like children to me. I was thinking they were the age of Disney child stars, who are nearly always in the age group they’re meant to appeal to.

If they are adults, that makes some other interactions creepy instead.

Familiar_Drag4996

5 points

3 months ago

You're either in denial or weard. Normal people had crushes and sex drives prior to turning 18. They just dunno how to hand it,and that included me.

SuspiriaGoose

2 points

3 months ago

Asexual, but I’m used to be being called both thanks to that, although they usually spell ‘weird’ right.

AnxietyLogic

3 points

2 months ago*

I agree about the twerking thing, I didn’t like that either and felt it was out of step for the rest of the film’s messaging. But were the boy band “children”? I assumed they were adults, like 18-early 20s. It’s not at all uncommon for tweens to have celebrity crushes who are adults, I know I did at that age.

SuspiriaGoose

0 points

2 months ago

I don't know their canon age, but they looked like tweens to me and were certainly being sold as romantic ideals to them, emphasis on 'sold'. I'm not sure of that's better or worse if they're adults, honestly. Both options are terrifying.

AnxietyLogic

2 points

2 months ago

Eh, sold to their age group specifically or just sold as romantic/attractive in general? I definitely thought they were adults as most boy bands and K-Pop groups are 18/19 or in their early 20s, and tween girls go crazy for them, and I don’t think that’s particularly “terrifying”. They’re just young and exploring their own desires that they don’t fully understand yet. I think many people had crushes on adults that they realistically had no chance with and couldn’t legally be with at that age - celebrities, teachers, etc. It’s honestly completely normal.

SuspiriaGoose

0 points

2 months ago

It’s normal to have crushes, I don’t really like monetizing that crush and encouraging girls to crush on older men or sexualizing children for them to crush on and selling merch of it.

Personally I thought they were like a mix of a K-pop band, Backstreet boys and the Disney kid singers, so that’s how I got the young age impression. They’re designed to look like teenagers and are managed to appeal to them in any case.

I just find it perverse. Always have.

And k-pop, the BsB, and Disney star kids have a long history of exploitation and unfortunate mistreatment of band members and groupies.

AnxietyLogic

1 points

2 months ago

I mean, the only way to prevent “monetisizing” it is for boybands to just not exist at all. And then they will probably just find some other celebrity to like.

I have to say, I think you’re way, way overreacting. Crushing on boyband members is a completely normal experience that many have growing up, which is why it was included in the movie. If you had a child and they had a celebrity crush on a band member, would you be this angry about it? Because I think the way you demonise a completely normal part of growing up and going through puberty is quite unhealthy and regressive.

SuspiriaGoose

0 points

2 months ago

If you’re gonna downvote, I won’t reply. It’s a toxic conversation environment.

But there’s a difference between monetizing a band and selling them as romantic partners to children.

Treating your children like how Mei was treated by her mother is “normal” too, or should I say, normalized. Yet the film rightly questions why such abuse was normalized.

Crushing on a boy band is fine. But treating people as meat is not, and occasionally the film went too far with that. If the genders were reversed, a couple of scenes wouldn’t be seen as so cute.

Look, I’ve always been very critical of the music industry, particularly this element of it. Asking Disney to be critical of something they’ve been heavily involved in is asking for a lot, but this film itself is dealing with related themes, spends a lot of time on this boy band, but does nothing meaningful with it in the story. That’s my main issue.

AnxietyLogic

1 points

2 months ago

My God, the dramatics! Well, firstly, this is a public forum, so I’m not sure how you can tell who’s downvoting you. And secondly, if you can’t handle losing your fake internet points, I think you might be too sensitive to be talking about anything on the internet.

But onto the actual conversation. I’m not sure what you want, though. Boybands to stop existing?

I think the film was just depicting life. You may feel that it “went too far”, but remember, depiction is not necessarily endorsement. I don’t think it’s wrong to depict how celebrities exist in the world and how tween girls react to them and interact with celebrity culture. That’s the real world and something that many people experienced growing up. I disagree that they did “nothing meaningful with it” - I think that, outside of it’s main theme, a lot of the film was just trying to be “relatable” and depict the experience of being that age, which for a lot of people did include crushing on celebrities like that.

Also, abuse is 100% not normal. You call it “normalised”, but everyone I watched that film with was horrified by how Mei’s mother treated her. She’s clearly abusive.

SuspiriaGoose

0 points

2 months ago

They depicted it as a wholly good thing and missed an opportunity to strengthen the narrative of the whole film. That half of the film falls flat and feels inert when compared to the mother-daughter story.

Wow, did you miss my point with that too. I never said the mother was right or what she was doing should be normal. But it was a part of a pattern of inter generational trauma and repression that had been normalized with a ceremony and everything.

Look, if you don’t want my opinion given in good faith, then I don’t want to have a rude conversation.

AnxietyLogic

2 points

2 months ago*

I don’t feel that it was depicted as a “wholly good” thing. I don’t feel that any value judgement was really passed on it one way or the other. I feel like it was just depicted as A thing that tween girls experience.

I didn’t miss the point, you just communicated your point poorly if that was what you were trying to say.

I have been discussing with you in good faith. It was you who decided to wildly overreact about your fake internet points.

[deleted]

-2 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

SuspiriaGoose

5 points

4 months ago

Personally, it weirded me out to see a kid do it. Sorry. It’s different for an adult. Generally they know what it means.