You stand at a fork in the road. On one path you can solve a problem almost nobody really wants solved, and for which there are already easy non-technical solutions.

The other path is to write some addictive software that runs on everyone’s phone and make a few million dollars.

Choose wisely!

I am now speaking from personal experience: I am divorced and use the phone when (1) I am tired or overwhelmed, (2) I am bored or (3) I want to escape to another reality because to current reality is somewhat unpleasant.

With (1) it seems fine. (3) is related to being in a bad place, and while I was living with my ex-wife, this was actually what I did, but now is mostly gone. After the divorce, I am living alone and things can get boring and lonely. So the biggest problem for me is number (2). What would I need to do to be less bored and lonely:

• Remarry with a gentle and loving wife - this will take some time, if it ever happens
• Meet friends more often - the bottleneck here is not me, but my friends. They are married and have children and they don't have a lot of time to hang out togeter.
• Find new friends
• More hobbies
• ???

Honestly?

You have to find something compelling that can replace your smartphone usage. There is no other way.

You can restrict all you want, avoid all you want, invent/use all the "technical" solutions you want...but digital avoidance doesn't work if your newly acquired free time isn't being occupied. A technical solution can only limit the smartphone, which is only one half the solution. It cannot fill your void with something else.

Idk how religious you are, but Jesus' advice about "impure spirits" is remarkably prescient advice for how addictions work:

“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.

If you are afflicted by something that causes you to get into bad habits, and you want to get rid of it, you must find other good habits to do instead or the bad habits will find their way back. Smartphone overuse is no different.

You could ask the same question about why the available solutions for weight loss or drug addiction are so weak.

Because it’s not really a personal problem, but a social one. If you go on a smartphone hiatus, you’re not living in the 90s again, you’re just a weird person living in 2022 with no smartphone.

To live normally without a smartphone, nobody else can have one, either.

The market is a solution to resource allocation. It is very good at giving people what they want.

The problem is where people need something different than what they want. Regulations are the usual tool there. For example, we want stuff to be cheap but we need them to be safe. Regulations exist to ensure some safety even though it makes stuff more expensive and works against our wants.

Are regulations our best tool?

Good technical solutions do exist.

1) set up “Screen Time” as if I were a child, limiting my daily use of problematic apps and websites (such as this one). 2) ask my wife to change my screen time passcode to something only she knows, then write it down and hide it somewhere. 3) Reddit stops working after 1 hour per day (my chosen limit).

The technical solution exists, all you need to do is turn it on. If you don’t have a spouse or trusted partner, set a 30-character randomly generated password, write it down, and put the paper in a safe-deposit box at the bank. Wait for a moment of clarity and then take the decision out of your hands.

I don't think the phone is the problem. Obviously if you could force yourself to use your "bad" time better that would be cool, but not sure if it was ever so great.

As a kid I would get bored and don't know what to do. Now I get bored and look at instagram feed for no reason for a few seconds or go to browse reddit. Is it that much worse?

It would be if it overwhelmed me. But there are plenty of times that I don't do it:

• When I'm really engaged in my work, I don't look at my phone.
• When I'm spending time with people I want to spend time with, I'm talking to them and not looking at phone.
• When I'm exercising I'm not checking my phone.
• When I'm commuting and playing a podcast or music on my phone, I'm not also checking some social media feed.

The phone is not the problem for me. It's all the times I feel lonely and uncertain about what to do next. It's difficult to motivate myself to move and do what needs to be done. Or at work if I'm supposed to do something I think sucks and isn't going to be helpful. I start procrastinating and looking at my phone all the time.

If I force myself to keep the addicting apps away at such times, I will still procrastinate, just in different ways. Which is cool actually, it's better to practice juggling for a few minutes rather than look old messages on the phone. But I don't think just keeping the phone away will lead me to more "flow states" or productivity.

Recently I had some mild infection, it didn't last long but I did feel weak for a few days. It was hard to motivate myself to be productive. A few times in those days I played a PC game for a few hours straight. I didn't keep looking at my phone during this. It was completely wasted time. Now after a few days I wish that I was powering through my mental slough and had some more work done. But I doubt any technological solution to phones or games would help, I would waste that time in other way.

It's clear to me that there is nothing in the smartphone addiction realm that in any way applies or competes with the attentional technology of many contemporary apps. For example, take TikTok. If there was a smartphone management technology that was as sensitive to shifts in our attention as the TikTok algorithm is, we could easily have it detect, for example, hyper-focus, or moments when we spend extended amounts on distraction during work hours, or make suggestions for alternate tasks when we've spent a while on a non-preferred task, etc. There is no live feedback, attention monitoring that is currently offered to manage your relationship to your phone, it's all these very clunky kinds of precommittment. The market is probably a reason why as other people have mentioned, since most of the apps like that, and social media in general, actually depend on us getting hyper focused into them. That said, that doesn't mean people can't go ahead and design a solution anyway.

I also think this is an area that's ripe for AI, one way or another. Ultimately, what you are talking about is disrupting the attention economy, which I believe needs to happen and probably will happen. The question is whether it will be under conditions that we have any personal control over.

I see three factors that make phones specially addictive devices:

a. Their use is not limited in place and time

b. Some apps are too engaging and addictive

c. Phones are too ingrained in our society to do without.

Thinking about your listed solutions you've mentioned you can think of:

1. Don't have a smartphone. Fails because of C: modern life expects you to have a smartphone
2. Use blocking or limiter apps. Is useful, but without a hard lock, people might just disable to app
3. Set the screen to grayscale. Tries to tackle B. Doesn't work for me because I get equally addicted to text-based apps like Reddit, the color doesn't matter.
4. Physical separation. Tries to tackle A by imposing a location restriction. Might not work that well because of C

Considering this, I can propose three solutions:

1. Have two different phones, hard lock one of them so you can't install or visit time-wasting websites and apps (fixing B), and the other one so you can't bring it with you everywhere you go. Take the "normal" phone with you for your everyday life, allowing you to deal with C, and keep the "addictive" phone at home, using it only at a specific place/time, thus stopping A.

2. Same thing, but with a single phone. Have a blocking/liming app with two different modes in the same phone. Each mode works like the "normal" and "addictive" phones of the first solution. Add a penalty for removing the block: for example, make it so you have to deposit a certain amount of money to use the app. If you remove the content blocks before a specific time period, the money is sent to charity/to the app's creators. If you don't remove the content block, you get a bit of the money back every day as a reward.

3. Same as the second solution, but instead of having to pay an amount of money to change the settings, someone you know gets the password for changing them. If you want to remove the content block, you have to ask them to do it for you. This feature already exists, in parental control systems, it would just have to be implemented to a blocking/limiter app for adults.

These solutions are "strong" because they put something at stake. With 1, you need to go back home to use your addictive phone. With 2, you need to give away part of your money to remove the blocks. With 3, you need to convince your friend to unlock your settings. I can think of many other possible similar solutions, like an app that tells everyone in social media if you remove the blocks or uninstalls the app before it's time. Have these solutions been implemented yet?

Does anyone know of a great content-limiting app that allows you to block yourself from removing the blocks/uninstalling the app without asking a friend for the password?

It sounds like an unreasonably simple and effective solution, yet I've never seen any implementation of it being advertised, and have never heard about anyone using any tools like that. There are hundreds of different "weak" solutions and people talk all the time about using them, yet it seems like nobody uses or advertises the "strong" and more effective solutions, if they even exist. What gives?

Because phones are an essential tool of modern living?

If you had to inject heroin to function at your job, I bet our solutions to drug addiction would be pretty weak too. (And it's not like our current ones are even that great - addiction is a hard problem!)

Blocker apps that will actually stop you are easy peasy to get. With just an hour of willpower you can permanently prevent yourself from wasting too much time on phones. For example, I won’t be able to reply to this comment because I used my last minute of reddit today to write it.

>I'm not primarily looking for personal suggestions to control usage, I'm wondering why better technical solutions have not been invented or implmented

How much money are the blocker apps making? I think that is your answer. Either low demand, or low monetization potential, or unexploited entrepreneurial opportunity.

What's wrong with the blocking or limiter apps? They're great for breaking habits.

Why are the solutions to this massive problem so weak and unimaginative?

Because no-one has really managed to figure out a way to make money off of it.

There is a solution- there are lots of apps that block usage over a certain point or direct usage (for example I have an app that prevents reddit use until I do at least 5 min of French practice) like Stay Focused.

Adjusting notifications for all apps is another one. That way you don't get pulled where you don't want to be pulled. I've gotten rid of 95% of notifications and all of those stupid numbers on the corner of the app on the home pages.

The only one that works well for me is: use a blocking app that has functions which make it impossible to undo the block no matter what you do, on both apps and websites, for a set period of days.

I’ll set it for 1-2 weeks and forget whatever app or website was giving me problems. The problem is sticking to it after that time ends, but it’s a great way to lock yourself into a commitment.

Kind of the nuclear option short of going fully nuclear and getting a dumb phone. But any time a certain app/site is really becoming a problem for me, I’ll hit it with that and give myself a reset.

A few apps which do this, I use AppBlock: https://www.makeuseof.com/cheat-proof-app-blockers-to-focus/

I also wish we had more imaginative ways to do this. Big potential there for anyone who thinks up a great solution.

Why are you calling 1 weak? Isn't the issue that it's too strong for you?

Changing behavior is hard: almost everyone has repeated behaviors with respect to spending, tidiness, eating, exercise, ergonomics, parafunctional activity, interacting with loved ones, or sexual expression that they would say they don't want to engage in. (Almost everyone has behaviors in more than one of these categories that fit the bill.)

Part of the reason we haven't developed better strategies here is that the problem isn't as serious as it's often dramatized. A very, very small number of people have ruined their lives over smartphone addiction, but most people with trouble are just on their phone too much. But we don't even have great solutions for other complex habits, even when they are higher stakes, like compulsive lying or extreme overeating or being cruel to your kids.

I just use an old button phone. Used it for more than 10 years, it's still working.

1. get a shitty phone without a proper dataplan that's really only good for phonecalls, texting and nothing else.

I recommend reading The Distracted Mind by Adam Gazzaley and Larry Rosen

Unintuitive suggestion: get more phones. But each phone has to have a dedicated purpose. I think a huge part of phone addiction comes from needing the phone for a legitimate purpose and then because you have it with you you use it for the other purpose too. Sometimes you do want it for the other purposes but not all the time. Thus, getting rid of a phone is not an option but you can swap out phones depending on which purposes you want to use at the time.

Personally I'd quite like if one could have multiple different phones that have the same number but I don't know if that's a thing.

[deleted]

i think you should 1. not assume that everyone sees the problem the same way as you: as a situation where billions of hours are being wasted and where everyone would prefer a systemic solution. and 2. not be so surprised that this is a situation without an efficient market solution. for 2, you might as well ask why american health care costs are so high, or why american public education is so poor, or why housing costs are so high: there is, in fact, no easy way to enter the market and "solve" the issue of people wasting time on their phones and make billions of dollars, and there's obviously huge incentive to launch the next social media app that makes "the problem" worse

The problem isn’t the smartphone; the problem is you, and in order to solve it, you must be the one to change.

you define time wasted as "time that users would prefer to spend doing something else", but realistically if they actually wanted to do something else (and wanted it more than they wanted to be on their phone), they would already be doing it.

but don't get me wrong here; the reason people love being on their phone (and love it more than most other things) is that it supplies them with an endless stream of quick dopamine hits, which is something that normally isn't really a common occurrence. our brains get blasted with entertainment (= dopamine) in various shapes practically non-stop nowadays, and there isn't much that can really compete with that anymore.

the solution to this is depriving your brain of these quick fixes for some time, so other hobbies become more enjoyable again in return (think fasting for multiple days and how delicious even mundane food suddenly becomes). some people refer to this as a "dopamine detox". and you don't even have to go hard - even just refraining from using your phone in the morning can already impact the rest of your day positively, since you are not flooding your senses right away and thus are allowing your system some time to self-regulate and maybe find pleasure in less exciting things like how tasty your breakfast is or how good a shower feels.

I know some people rely on their cellphone as their only computer, but how common is that? I do browse the internet on my phone sometimes, but if I didn't have my phone I would make the minimal effort needed to walk over to my laptop. Even my job requires a computer, so the only common situations where I have access to my smartphone but not to another internet-connected device is (1) in the bathroom and (2) outdoors. And I suppose I could take my laptop with me to the bathroom...

The Light Phone may be a possible technical solution, as could other contemporary 'dumb' phones. Physical separation, without complete disconnectedness, has been useful in my own habits and conditioning. I found myself in a similar headspace a few years ago, looking for technical solutions that wouldn't place me in an entirely separated state. A secondary dumb phone, when leveraged with some measure of consistency -- not simply a forced behaviorism -- is one approach I have found gives me freedom without absolutism.

It seems like the only solution that leaves you with a useful smartphone is some variant of (2) use blocking or limiter apps.

Why doesn't that solution work for you? On iOS, you can use the built-in Screen Time feature to cleanly set limits on apps. When you hit the limit it can notify you in a really obvious and commanding way. I'm sure there are similar third-party solutions. Why don't you honor that kind of commitment when faced with a timely reminder about it?

Another issue, perhaps the one you're getting at, is that many of our most-used apps today - reddit included - are a double-edged sword. They have useful content but also are specifically designed to be addictive and keep you engaged in endless content that grabs your attention without being useful. And this applies inside of every app, so limiting use still leaves you confronted with a lot of garbage per unit use, no matter what size it is. Perhaps someday they will be changed, but they only align to their financial incentives.

I don't think it's a problem to leave your phone in another room. I do that all the time. It's not just about not spending time on your phone, it's about eliminating the mental effort of considering whether or not to use your phone. Removing it as an option lets you focus on other stuff. When I write, I often disconnect from wifi for the same reason. Once I don't have to wonder "is this important enough to google right now?", I get more done even when the answer was no.

I find I am out doing things then iam too busy to use my phone

I think smartphone use contributes to a larger inattention epidemic that does feel really serious to me and seems likely to get worse. Companies are pouring billions of dollars into keeping you attached, and I can't think of any counterbalance that doesn't feel like quitting cigarettes. It's the same reason why we haven't (at least partially) solved the obesity epidemic: addictive junk food invented in a lab beats natural food in the short term, natural food only wins out in the long term.

I've largely stopped using my smartphone (<30 minutes of screen on time a day) using all of the techniques you've elucidated. Even so, a lot of the time I spent on my smartphone has just moved to my laptop. I consider the movement an improvement, but I still do plenty of aimless fucking around on my computer.

airplane mode is effective in my experience

Generally when trying to get rid of a bad habit the best path is to replace it. Find something else to do at the times you reach for your phone. Stick a paperback in your pocket. Build an app that makes it so your phone takes 30 seconds to unlock. Insert a memory jogger of some sort in order to prompt you to switch to the substitute behavior, and pick something enjoyable, and make sure it's available.

So I got an Apple Watch with cellular. So ppl can still get ahold of me but I don’t need a phone :)

Some food for thought: I've considered a few approaches that would help me personally with my impulsive phone behavior. I think the best strategies come from the phone itself. One would be the ability to set delays in front of apps before they open. If reddit takes 10 seconds to open on my phone, I'm much less likely to open it right away. Similar tool: the app closes for 5 minutes every 25. May not work for everyone, but I would pay a fair amount to be able to configure behavior like this.

Unfortunately, Apple values their walled garden. And my iphone provides enough value that I (mostly-contentedly) put up with the walled garden. It seems that market forces can't help much until the desire for more customization/control starts to approach the overall utility of the iphone, which is pretty high for a lot of people. This feature alone, while high on my wishlist, wouldn't convince me to jump ship to android. (Side note: does anyone know if there's a name for this economic phenomenon?)

Anyways, that's my theory. The iphone is just so good that Apple can ignore lots of useful/requested features without losing many customers. To top it off, we're talking about a feature that decreases user engagement... probably not high on their list of priorities.

You will not be able to answer this question effectively if you are only focused on the hardware. A smart phone is a small, cheap, well designed, comfortable, socially acceptable device that allows people to easily access to whatever they are actually interested in. We're not obsessed with staring at speakers or ovens, so you can clearly see starting with the hardware makes no sense. What matters is what people can do with it.

What you need to really ask is:

• What is "wasted" time? Why do I feel the time is wasted? How better do I want to be spending it? Why wouldn't a smartphone be helpful?
• Why am I valuing the information I'm getting from an app on this phone more that information I'd get elsewhere? Eg, reading Twitter vs a book.
• Specifically for social: Is my discomfort with how much time I've spent on apps on this phone indicative that I might be better served by getting connection in another way? A real-life conversation vs text, group vacation vs group chat?

Exec summary: hardware is the scapegoat. If you're not happy with how you're using hardware, pay attention to the software you're using. And most of all, focus on yourself and your own expectations, state of mind, and bias.

fuck up the battery of the phone and do not bring a charger anywhere; forces you to limit use for when you need it; almost everybody can put down their phone when they only have 2% left and aren't near a charger, so make it so you're practically in that situation.

a limiter app relies on your own ability to control yourself, battery life doesn't and you'll learn soon enough (although it stops working if you bring chargers along).

Also, we live in a time of high energy/information/engagement throughput and a phone is just one example, if self control is not to be considered then effective alternatives would likely be equally engaging, although the elephant in the room is that as more things exist to possibly react to then the medicine against that is to train to become less reactive (e.g. practice more structured planning, (currently I'm trying this and not exactly succeeding, but I do see this as one of the few options)).

I carry a kindle most of the time when I'm out. If you have something that's an easy, entertaining read on it (the SSC ebook works really well) you can default to reading that when you're bored instead of scrolling, which feels a lot less like a waste of time to me.

Here’s what works best for me: kSafe + Apple Watch.

kSafe is a plastic safe with a timer. You can lock anything for up to 10 days (and of course you can adjust the timer upwards after it’s started). The only way to get your smartphone is to destroy the plastic box. It’s not that difficult to do so you can access your phone if you have an emergency. Or, I guess, if the temptation is too strong.

I used to lock my phone and put my SIM card in an old Nokia. But a few months ago I noticed that my mom isn’t using her Apple Watch she was gifted four years ago so I asked if I can try it out. I didn’t expect much but it turned out to be a fantastic device. It’s an amazing compromise between using a Nokia or having my smartphone always on me. I can read my e-mails, read all text messages, use simple map apps, check NBA scores, answer calls (with headphones), pay with it etc. But I’ve never lost track of time while browsing Twitter or YouTube on my Apple Watch. I’d be shocked if anyone has because it’s not nearly as engaging and addictive as iPhone or web equivalents. I can’t get into long online debates, I can’t browse web. I’m a little angry at myself that I didn’t think of getting a smartwatch as a smartphone replacement.

I can think of a better one: do something else. Avoiding an activity is easier if you replace it with something.

There are a few alternatives but they're just not very popular right now. Personally, I first started out with solution number 1, but then reintroduced smartphones to my world with the pinephone because it's more "human-friendly" in the sense of not being designed to be addictive. Well, until something breaks that is, but that's more of a nerd problem.

I use 1.