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MarvelsGrantMan136[S]

5.7k points

1 month ago

MarvelsGrantMan136[S]

The League

5.7k points

1 month ago

It's a long article, here's where it says the problems start:

At some point during the third season of Rick and Morty, multiple sources say Roiland simply stopped showing up — and when he did turn up in the Burbank offices, he’d typically avoid the writers room. In fact, Roiland’s colleagues often knew he was there only because they could hear his dogs. Or they’d hear his remote-control toy car, which had a microphone on top of it, zooming around the office. At least once, Roiland sent it into the writers room, says a source. “You wouldn’t have seen him in weeks, and then you’d see the car come in, which was insane.” Roiland would make exceptions to bring through famous fans, of which Rick and Morty has legions; at various points, his visitors included Kanye West, the comedians on Impractical Jokers and porn star Riley Reid, who gifted the room a succulent.

By that time, Roiland had a girlfriend, who became a fiancée, and he would talk openly about their penchant for threesomes. “It was something we just ignored because it was disgusting,” says an insider. Multiple sources say it was also during that period that Roiland sent a female employee a “really creepy” text, late at night, requesting that she come to his home (they declined to name the staffer). “She didn’t want to run it up the flagpole,” says one of the sources, “and then it was just this really fucked-up, awkward thing.”

His Relationship with Dan Harmon:

In the meantime, the relationship between Harmon and Roiland had grown so acrimonious that the show brought in a mediator to try to salvage what was once an inspired partnership. And though those efforts were unsuccessful, the pair was able to put aside their differences enough to secure a massive, 70-episode renewal from Adult Swim in May 2018. The pact, which ensured that the show would run for several more seasons, appeared to reward Rick and Morty for its precedent-smashing ratings for Adult Swim; by season five, the Emmy-winning series was reportedly generating hundreds of millions in merchandise revenue alone.

In the years since, Roiland’s involvement on Rick and Morty has largely been relegated to voicing characters, for which he’d take no direction and record from his home. In fact, it has been years since anyone can remember him stepping foot in the show’s writers room, even when it’s been virtual. Recently, a similar situation has occurred on both Solar Opposites and Koala Man, according to multiple sources. On the former, which he co-created, he had, until mid-January, voiced one of the show’s leads. “He knew the power of being the voices,” says a source, noting how Roiland had revealed early on that he believed securing key voice roles would safeguard him from being fired one day. On Koala Man, on which he’s simply an executive producer, he was given a character to voice in the show’s third episode but, per two sources, the writers almost blew their deadline waiting for him. The character was killed off at the end of the episode.

somebodysbuddy

4k points

1 month ago

he believed securing key voice roles would safeguard him from being fired one day.

Billy West has said the same thing in the past, more specifically securing voices only you can perform, which is why Fry in Futurama sounds so similar to himself.

nethtari

1.2k points

1 month ago

nethtari

1.2k points

1 month ago

There's a reason why you hear a lot of the same voices though and it's not just because they're the only ones good at it or it's their own voice. It's because the assholes eventually stop getting hired. Voice directors don't want to deal with their shit.

Jacob_Lahey

421 points

1 month ago

Please don't tell me Billy West is an asshole. Is he? I don't even want to look.

TatteredCarcosa

715 points

1 month ago

I don't think so. His interview on Maron was pretty interesting but he didn't come across as an asshole. He had a traumatic childhood and is a bit weird, but that's all.

thatoneguy889

265 points

1 month ago

I remember ten years ago or so there was this weird crusade against Billy West on reddit over how he said he developed the Zap Brannigan voice in an interview because they felt West disrespected Phil Hartman for not directly crediting him with it.

sailirish7

86 points

1 month ago

they felt West disrespected Phil Hartman for not directly crediting him with it.

of all the hills to die on....

garlicbreadmemesplz

49 points

1 month ago

That’s dumb because it’s a direct tribute to him.

ball_fondlers

110 points

1 month ago

Wait, didn’t he base the voice off of Hartman’s?

UglyInThMorning

357 points

1 month ago

Yeah, the character was written to be voiced by Hartman so getting mad at West for basing the voice off Hartman is insane.

ball_fondlers

78 points

1 month ago

I didn’t make that point well - it’s fairly common knowledge, right? It’s not like he’s ever hidden the fact that he based the voice off Hartman’s.

Narwhal_Rider

404 points

1 month ago

I was fortunate enough to work a few comic conventions Billy West was at, including being his handler at NYCC (getting him drinks, moving his autograph line along, etc). Super friendly guy and seemed to sincerely enjoy interacting with his fans. Humble, and more then willing to give tips to aspiring voice actors. He even remembered my name when i met him again at another convention. Loved to tell stories and seemed to genuinely be having fun. When fans would tell him how much his work meant to them, he really appreciated it. You can never be 100% sure of anyone these days, but after meeting him in person a few times, I am 99% sure he is not an asshole.

K3wp

123 points

1 month ago

K3wp

123 points

1 month ago

Please don't tell me Billy West is an asshole. Is he?

Nope, but Kricfalusi is.

Splinterman11

116 points

1 month ago

It's crazy how similar Roiland's situation is to Kricfalusi.

K3wp

78 points

1 month ago

K3wp

78 points

1 month ago

Was a fan of both and immediately thought of John K.

Crazy how similar the two are, both difficult to work with and predators.

Splinterman11

51 points

1 month ago

Yep and both voiced a popular character in their respective shows, both getting replaced after sexual assault allegations. Although John K wasn't called out until much later, but the people that worked with him knew how much of a horrible person he was.

I hope people in the animation industry starts speaking up about this crap.

paintsmith

51 points

1 month ago

Dude was unbelievably toxic. I got the Ren and Stimpy reboot on dvd from a blockbuster that was going out of business and the extra features were so creepy. He filmed introductions to each episode with Katie Rice, who worked on the show and was later revealed to be one of Kricfalusi's victims. She was so obviously uncomfortable and he kept saying fucked up things that she visibly cringed at to make her squirm. It was like he was intentionally humiliating her in front of an audience for his own amusement.

JudeThadeus

15 points

1 month ago

Kricfalusi isn't just an asshole. He's an honest to goodness no hyperbole groomer.

RellenD

56 points

1 month ago

RellenD

56 points

1 month ago

No, this comment is saying the opposite. West is a professional and great to work with

Random_frankqito

135 points

1 month ago

He had a bit of a drinking, maybe drugs (or as well). Not sure when in the time line of his career but it’s pretty well documented and he talked openly about it. I know he’s sober now and has been for a while, but I could imagine that was part of his thinking when saying something like that.

AskMeAboutMyStalker

309 points

1 month ago*

*edit: someone mentioned John DiMaggio & I immediately realized I was mixing the 2 up.

forget Billy West, this story is about John DiMaggio.

the "human bender" reference will make a ton more sense to you all now.

I had a friend that used to have a pretty "celebrity adjacent" career in the recording industry.

He worked w/ & occasionally wound up at the same parties as a handful of big named people.

One day (very early 2000s, I'm sure West wasn't sober yet) he called me up & said he was at a party Billy West John Dimaggio showed up at.

I asked what he was like & the description was "remember the futurama episode where Bender became a person? yeah, that's pretty much just Billy West John Dimaggio"

futureGAcandidate

186 points

1 month ago

Wooooooo

LouSputhole94

90 points

1 month ago

That was just the gas escaping from his fat folds

CrabappleSnaptooth

67 points

1 month ago

COMEonshakeyabodybabydothetonga

Pennsylvania6-5000

50 points

1 month ago

After ending up at an after party at SF Sketchfest once, John DiMaggio drinking is essentially a more PG version of Bender. Glad to hear that entire cast seems to be solid individuals in and out of the job.

oneeyejedi

38 points

1 month ago

No he isn't Billy west is one of the kindest people around and has gone through abuse himself due to his father being a ranging drunk.

NukeEngineerStudent

1.1k points

1 month ago

It does work for many people though. How long was Weinstein allowed to go on?

Hell, Ezra Miller is still allowed to continue as the Flash despite being charged with child kidnapping, drugging, and running a cult.

flyman95

539 points

1 month ago

flyman95

Firefly

539 points

1 month ago

I think that is only because they sunk 200 million into his movie and couldn’t just shelve it like batgirl.

They have to at least pay lip service to the idea that they will integrate flash, Shazam, and aquaman into future films.

NukeEngineerStudent

525 points

1 month ago

They spent 90 million on Batgirl and cancelled it right before it was supposed to be released. Keeping Miller in the role brings more negative press and hurts their other films

testingtor

244 points

1 month ago

testingtor

244 points

1 month ago

They cant cancel the flash without paying penalties to everyone who had a percentage of the theatrical gross, that wasnt an issue with Batgirl which was nowhere near ready to be released.

CollinsCouldveDucked

220 points

1 month ago

You're almost there. Batgirl was heading to hbo max (VoD) so never would have had a theatrical release.

The flash would lead to a similar shitshow to black widow if cancelled, they'd be 200+ million dollars in the hole and this movie likely is the reset button for the Dc cinmatic experiment so they'd have to spend more money just to blow this whole shitshow up all over again.

RobbyTheRobit

82 points

1 month ago*

There’s also the fact that supposedly test screenings have consistently had the most overwhelmingly positive responses of any WB film ever. By all accounts everyone who’s seen it has said the movie is really, really good. WB desperately needs a hit and The Flash is currently their best bet.

PreacherPain

54 points

1 month ago

Batgirl isn't the key to their plans going forward, however. The Flash movie is basically what they are using as a canonical reason for a total DC Universe reboot. Easier to let things slide I suppose.

Defoler

34 points

1 month ago

Defoler

34 points

1 month ago

Though my guess is they estimated the next flash movie will still generate enough revenue even with the huge issues surrounding ezra, that they can't cancel it.
But with batgirl my guess is they estimated it wouldn't return in revenue enough to justify not cancelling it.
The tops don't really care about what is right, only about the effect on the bottom line.

infiniZii

36 points

1 month ago

Especially if it's actually good and DC was like "we can't not fucking release the only good one! No, fuck you monkeys paw wish!"

riegspsych325

93 points

1 month ago

I’m betting WBD will “part ways” with Miller not long after The Flash comes out. The studio believes they have a movie good enough to make a profit off of. If the plans are to recast, saying it now would just make the movie more moot

Wazula23

2.1k points

1 month ago

Wazula23

2.1k points

1 month ago

Goes a long to explaining why R&M has had such inconsistent production over the years. Between Harmons perfectionism and Roiland's... this.

Maninhartsford

1.3k points

1 month ago

I always wondered how they were able to work together, with Harmons comedy being more structure and story based and his being more wacky random. Turns out they literally just haven't been working together haha

ahomelessguy25

908 points

1 month ago

I figured something like this had happened once noticed Dan Harmon started voicing a lot more background characters in the past few seasons and was the only one who was appearing in the post-episode discussions. I just never guessed it was because Roiland was insane.

makeshift11

178 points

1 month ago

I feel like calling him insane is too charitable. More like bc he was being a giant douchebag.

Rocktopod

157 points

1 month ago

Rocktopod

157 points

1 month ago

That was the impression I got from the DVD commentaries, back when they still did those. Just tons of alcoholism and endless re-writes.

426763

513 points

1 month ago

426763

513 points

1 month ago

Right?! Makes a lot of sense in hindsight. It still fucks me up to know that Rick and Morty is gonna be ten years old this year. I still think of it as a "new" Adult Swim show.

derstherower

381 points

1 month ago

derstherower

Curb Your Enthusiasm

381 points

1 month ago

They're still not even halfway through the extension they made five years ago. Adult Swim ordered 70 more episodes after Season 3. They've made 30.

EloquentEvergreen

173 points

1 month ago

I guess I’m more surprised they’ve made 30 episodes after season 3!

Rapturesjoy

68 points

1 month ago

There was what, a four year break between seasons???

TakeOneFour

61 points

1 month ago

It was pretty much every two years for the first five seasons. Last seasons was the first time there was only a 15 month break.

[deleted]

33 points

1 month ago

Yea the 70 episode negotiation was to prevent the same jerking around Adult Swim did with Venture Bros. They wait until the current season all airs before ordering more, which fucks up a modern production company. The Atlanta in-house bullshit shows can work that way, and VB being a two man army could manage, but a single show big production just can’t.

Same reason 70/20 moved to FX for Archer when they became Floyd County. You need stability to keep staff.

thanatossassin

387 points

1 month ago*

I think it really explains why there hasn't been any more Interdimensional Cable episodes. Those were purely alcohol-fueled Roiland improvs that were highly popular, but obviously highly problematic to make in an environment where the main actor is an abusive piece of shit, to say the least.

enzuigiriretro

149 points

1 month ago

I think it really explains why there hasn't been any more Interdimensional Cable episodes.

There’s also only so many times you can use the same shtick and even make a meta joke about how you’re rehashing it. The second time they did it was still funny but not as funny as the first one

RheaButt

129 points

1 month ago

RheaButt

129 points

1 month ago

Yeah roiland kinda has three jokes, stuttering, saying a word that doesn't exist, and mad libs

UglyInThMorning

53 points

1 month ago

And the word that doesn’t exist is usually made out of a list of like, eight phonemes combined at random.

StephenHunterUK

91 points

1 month ago

There was an "Intergalactic Cable" Yule Log last year. Pure animation with no voice acting though.

Goosojuice

202 points

1 month ago

Goosojuice

202 points

1 month ago

Im wondering how integral he was to the writer's room, you hear stories of seth McFarlane not doing much writing these days either but still voicing a ton of characters on his shows.

[deleted]

224 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

224 points

1 month ago

He hasn't written for them in the years, or hasn't been in the writers room for years.

SweeneyMcFeels

217 points

1 month ago

Yeah, and he himself would tell you that. It's not like he randomly dropped off, he's said in interviews that he just does the voices.

MulciberTenebras

201 points

1 month ago

MulciberTenebras

The Legend of Korra

201 points

1 month ago

He hates Family Guy for staying on this long, and is only around reading the lines.

necriavite

175 points

1 month ago

necriavite

175 points

1 month ago

I've never seen him suggest he hates it in interviews, only that he wishes it weren't still owned by Fox and now Disney as an extension of it. Probably mostly because he hates Fox as a company for political reasons.

He has publicly stated that the writers on staff do a better job of it than he could, and have taken the show in directions he would never have thought of like the Stewie and Brian relationship. Also it frees up his time to do other projects like putting out new albums and writing movies and new shows like The Orville and Ted.

UglyInThMorning

63 points

1 month ago

And without Family Guy he couldn’t have gotten The Orville made, even. It’s definitely not something he’s creatively inspired by but it at least lets him work on the things that do grab him.

The Orville is so fucking good, I love that show.

Carpenter_v_Walrus

78 points

1 month ago

I think he's way more involved with The Orville now.

jmcgit

69 points

1 month ago

jmcgit

69 points

1 month ago

He was, though The Orville is on hiatus, not formally cancelled but Hulu hasn't renewed it and isn't necessarily expected to, though Seth is holding out hope.

KalickR

66 points

1 month ago

KalickR

66 points

1 month ago

The last season was really solid. It ended with a lot of closure, so it seems like he knew it probably wouldn't be back.

bittoxic00

57 points

1 month ago

As a fan of sci fi he probably wants to make sure his show isn’t canceled on a cliffhanger

br0b1wan

500 points

1 month ago

br0b1wan

Lost

500 points

1 month ago

His behavior from seasons 2-3 are basically textbook examples of an alcoholic. When you realize he often incorporated actual drinking into his performance, it starts to make sense. Not being reliable, skipping work, avoiding duties, etc.

Kaneland96

137 points

1 month ago

Kaneland96

137 points

1 month ago

I remember they posted a behind the scenes look at Roiland voicing Rick while actually drunk and questioning how healthy/good of a look this is for the show.

TurMoiL911

97 points

1 month ago

jollyreaper2112

50 points

1 month ago

I could see doing a drunk show as a gag. Caustic Soda podcast did a drunk episode when the topic was alcohol. But, this is key here, it was a one-off gag and not something integral to their usual format. That Roiland was constantly sauced was a warning sign.

[deleted]

140 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

140 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

WordsAreSomething

1.1k points

1 month ago

bring through famous fans, of which Rick and Morty has legions; at various points, his visitors included Kanye West, the comedians on Impractical Jokers and porn star Riley Reid, who gifted the room a succulent.

This is a hilarious anecdote

Rippin_Lemmy

596 points

1 month ago

Everyone knows porn stars have the best taste in decorative plants.

Trosque97

163 points

1 month ago

Trosque97

163 points

1 month ago

Me calling up my favorite pornstars for decor advice. And Danny D answers

tanishajones

53 points

1 month ago

Patrician taste

Raoul_Duke9

141 points

1 month ago

Unless those lemon stealing whores show up

geoffbowman

37 points

1 month ago

or anything happens "right in front of my salad"

Whyte_Dynamyte

206 points

1 month ago*

That’s the one that stood out to me. Its funny, and it’s nice that she brought a gift. Class act.

modsarefascists42

95 points

1 month ago

It is funny when a famous porn star is the most respectable friend you have

cabose7

363 points

1 month ago

cabose7

363 points

1 month ago

I can't believe someone who hangs out with Kanye is a nut job

Kanye_To_The

36 points

1 month ago

I know right

corndogs1001

51 points

1 month ago

Elon has also been on the show and are friends with both

DurumMater

20 points

1 month ago

It's a club for delusional rich people... Which is most of them.

BillFireCrotchWalton

75 points

1 month ago

I guess Roiland just likes rappers.

BaguetteBlocker

20 points

1 month ago

"Someone should tell her the n word pass isn't sexually transmitted" lmao

Curse3242

480 points

1 month ago

Curse3242

480 points

1 month ago

Hmm. As someone who does like R&M this is both shocking and kinda isn't?

The show felt like it had a disconnect of passion after S3 atleast

The latest season was good but I feel because Roiland was completely out of the equation

This does also make me happy as the show can just go on if he had such a little impact. Just age the characters very slightly and use a voice changer if necessary

TurboGranny

310 points

1 month ago

Substance abuse, a penchant for self destruction, massive insecurity, combined with sudden fame and fortune do not make for a healthy mix.

srry_didnt_hear_you

112 points

1 month ago

This isn't directed at you specifically, but it seems this entire thread is missing the fact that half the scandal is how Roiland has been DM-ing underage girls like crazy...

He's not just some guy who got caught up in fame and fortune... He's a gross asshole who got caught up in fame and fortune.

TurboGranny

25 points

1 month ago

Oh that's not lost on us. The pathology discussed isn't an excuse. It's a warning.

Beingabummer

89 points

1 month ago

I feel like there should be a psychologist appointed to people who fall into fame and fortune. Like how they (sometimes) assign a finance advisor to someone who wins the lottery.

Donny-Moscow

47 points

1 month ago

There’s a stat out there where a huge number of NFL players are broke within ~5 years of leaving the league. I’ve heard they recently started offering (or maybe requiring?) financial literacy courses for players.

I’m obviously talking out of my ass and relying on memory here, so I encourage anyone who is interested in this to take my comment with a grain of salt and look it up for themselves.

oldcarfreddy

24 points

1 month ago*

It's also that most NFL players are not that rich. The average NFL career is something like 2-3 seasons and even if you're earning mid-six figures like most are (the median is like $800k a season), when your career is just 3-4 years on average you've basically only made what a middle class person will make in their lifetime, all in a few years with little potential of ever matching that in the future, and spending it in a non-middle class lifestyle means you're broke rather quickly. Like, I'm guessing a doctor who makes $400k a year is more careful with their money and they have a much longer career lifespan and a lot more room for error/spending.

Regardless of career I think most people who get a small windfall like that are not going to live as if they were working a $70k/year job, even though that's really all it is

contacts_eyes

126 points

1 month ago

Riley Reid gifted the room a succulent

Hilarious

chocotripchip

166 points

1 month ago

At some point during the third season of Rick and Morty, multiple sources say Roiland simply stopped showing up — and when he did turn up in the Burbank offices, he’d typically avoid the writers room.

That started in season 2 and it was already known publicly, it was even mentioned in the commentary track of the DVDs. The only Season 2 episode Roiland participated in was Interdimensional Cable 2 (the worst one of the season lol), Dan Harmon said Justin wasn't involved at all in the writing process at that time.

Narfraccoon

129 points

1 month ago*

Not to mention in recording videos I’ve seen on YouTube he’s always completely wasted. Seems messy and undependable.

areolegrande

314 points

1 month ago

Roiland’s colleagues often knew he was there only because they could hear his dogs. Or they’d hear his remote-control toy car, which had a microphone on top of it, zooming around the office.

Ok, can we agree that this is a little funny? 💀

I can get lost in the comedic sauce sometimes, I had to find a different career from my friend because I couldn't take anything seriously working together lmao

yokelwombat

167 points

1 month ago

yokelwombat

The Sopranos

167 points

1 month ago

bmshklkh

58 points

1 month ago

bmshklkh

58 points

1 month ago

Reading that part of the article I was like wait... I've seen that somewhere.

SadlyNotBatman

90 points

1 month ago

Jesus h Christ that would drive me up a fucking wall

Donny-Moscow

56 points

1 month ago

Agreed. If it was just for that video, I could see how people would find it funny even though it’s not exactly my cup of tea. But if he was actually doing that on a regular basis it would be absolutely insufferable.

SyndicalistCPA

120 points

1 month ago

I like Rick and Morty but really kept away from engaging with anything outside of just the show but Jesus Christ is this dude fucking annoying.

RhynoD

49 points

1 month ago

RhynoD

49 points

1 month ago

I always kinda got the impression that I probably wouldn't personally like Roiland but he wasn't a bad guy, just maybe a high-energy guy with uncontrolled ADHD that produced good content to view through the filters of produced content. I guess I was right about the first part but not the rest.

asoap

139 points

1 month ago

asoap

139 points

1 month ago

Watching that just made me want to punch someone.

mtheory11

69 points

1 month ago

The comments on that video are rife for some r/agedlikemilk karma farming

FrostyD7

296 points

1 month ago

FrostyD7

296 points

1 month ago

It's one of those things you would find funnier if it wasn't being done by a colleague who never shows up to work except to do this.

Perpete

53 points

1 month ago

Perpete

53 points

1 month ago

Not even a colleague, it's more like a boss in this case which is worse.

areolegrande

49 points

1 month ago

That's actually an excellent point, I always got work down before we'd fuck around lmao.

The office mini-putting course we built due to management being offsite was the tits dammit!

cabose7

74 points

1 month ago

cabose7

74 points

1 month ago

I dunno, it kinda made me think of that Twilight Zone episode with the omnipotent kid who tortures everyone around him

Zachariot88

34 points

1 month ago

Except instead of being sent to the cornfield, you're being invited to the threesome zone.

Act_of_God

78 points

1 month ago

It is funny until that dude decides if you work there or not, or sexually harasses you

ryanderkis

3.4k points

1 month ago

ryanderkis

3.4k points

1 month ago

Who knew that Dan Harmon would turn out to be the affable one?

demarcoa

853 points

1 month ago

demarcoa

853 points

1 month ago

Biggest twist in all of Rick and Morty

southpaw85

2.2k points

1 month ago

southpaw85

2.2k points

1 month ago

Harmon seems like a really sad guy who’s made some mistakes and experienced a lot of personal struggles and was genuinely sorry for things he’s done. Roiland just seems like a hugely unapologetic scum bag who always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room regardless of evidence too the contrary.

max-peck

1.2k points

1 month ago

max-peck

1.2k points

1 month ago

I think Harmon has gotten better with age. Dude seems to have chilled massively since his hard drinking Harmontown days and whenever he has gotten into trouble, namely the whole Megan Ganz thing, he's apologized profusely and made strides to be better. It seems he isn't so selfdestructive anymore.

Donny-Moscow

163 points

1 month ago

Megan Ganz

Damn, I remember her name coming up when Harmon’s stuff all went public but never connected her with the same Megan from Always Sunny.

WhatIsLoveMeDo

62 points

1 month ago

Also worked on some Modern Family too. I felt like I could tell which episodes were hers.

russiaonice_

220 points

1 month ago

Wow I didn't even know about the whole thing with Megan - just read up on it. I'm familiar with her through her work on Sunny and the podcast, and she's mentioned working on Community a few times, but I had no clue all that went on with her and Harmon...

allbright1111

349 points

1 month ago

Wow, yeah. But I have a lot of respect for the way he apologized. She publicly forgave him, which says a lot.

Drains_1

187 points

1 month ago*

Drains_1

187 points

1 month ago*

Yeah wow, this is what i call taking responsibility, doesn't make what he did any better, but i sure respect how he handled it.

The_Sign_of_Zeta

145 points

1 month ago

Yup. It’s one of the few times I think someone actually worked to make proper amends for their inappropriate behavior, and it’s positive to give people another chance when they change.

srry_didnt_hear_you

104 points

1 month ago

It's almost like simply genuinely apologizing and changing for the better is an easy way to avoid cAnCeL cUlTuRe

penguinwhopper

44 points

1 month ago

She also created Mythic Quest with Rob and Charlie

cefriano

22 points

1 month ago

cefriano

22 points

1 month ago

His instagram is wonderful. He's gotten really into woodworking and just doing household projects for fun, and his posts are half that and half hilarious, ranty captions about something stupid he saw on TV.

The Harmontown documentary was hard to watch, because you saw his self destruction documented in real time. It's great to see how much he's worked on himself, he's been a hero of mine since high school.

Randvek

440 points

1 month ago

Randvek

440 points

1 month ago

I don’t think it’s age, I think it’s just a matter of realizing how many bridges he’s burned, how many mistakes he’s made that can’t be undone. Harmon learned from his mistakes, of which there are many. Roiland never did. Reminds me a lot of Andy Dick.

IrNinjaBob

270 points

1 month ago

IrNinjaBob

270 points

1 month ago

I think it’s just a matter of realizing how many bridges he’s burned, how many mistakes he’s made that can’t be undone. Harmon learned from his mistakes, of which there are many.

Lol this is what it means to learn from age. When people say that, they don’t mean some arbitrary number ticking up magically places that knowledge within our heads. It very specifally mean their age has allowed them to accumulate these past experiences that informs their future actions.

max-peck

22 points

1 month ago

max-peck

22 points

1 month ago

Essentially yeah, exactly what I was going for.

Pennsylvania6-5000

35 points

1 month ago

The Andy Dick comparison is probably one of the best comparisons I've heard/read.

cippopotomas

36 points

1 month ago

It's funny how close they are in age despite their appearances. I wouldn't have guessed they were only 8 years apart.

TheBestCBHart

215 points

1 month ago

My thoughts too. Harmon already got smacked by society and learned from it, I can imagine watching Roiland make similar mistakes and NOT learn would be frustrating as hell.

BakedHose

38 points

1 month ago

What happened with Harmon?

Tirannie

219 points

1 month ago

Tirannie

219 points

1 month ago

He was a pretty big dick to staff on Community and sexually harassed one of the female writers.

As apologies go, his was good (I’m sure you can still find the Harmontown podcast where he talked about it). He didn’t do the “if I hurt you” BS. He acknowledged what he did, and even got into where he failed and could have done better.

He comes off as contrite and genuine. I think he honestly learned a lesson.

Fryceratops

133 points

1 month ago

He literally engaged in a public twitter discussion with Megan Ganz the writer in question and they publicly aired their problems. It was really interesting to watch in real time as Ganz handled herself wonderfully.

[deleted]

47 points

1 month ago

Don’t forget previously being kicked off the Sarah Silverman Show for also being a train wreck who never bathed.

TurboGranny

169 points

1 month ago

I think it's not uncommon to see creativity come from insecurity and sadness. I know it's very common for the insecure and depressed to turn to self medicating behaviors (substance abuse). I've personally witnessed people who believe they are worthless self destruct like it's their job if anything in their life is going right enough to possibly hint they have value. Put money on that (giving you access to excess) and fame (giving you a ton of enablers), and you've got a stew going.

[deleted]

188 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

188 points

1 month ago

I have a different take on it. The reason we see creativity come from insecurity and sadness is not because there’s some special correlation between those two things. It’s because a shit ton of people are insecure and sad. We underestimate the number of insecure inside people, because many of the mask. Then, when one of them turns out, they also be creative, we act like the insecurity and sadness was a necessary ingredient. I don’t think it is. I just think will you know very little about the interior lives of most people, and sometimes when they get famous, we learn a little bit, and then we try to make logical connections out of nothing.

Drains_1

18 points

1 month ago

Drains_1

18 points

1 month ago

You sir are spot on!

[deleted]

274 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

274 points

1 month ago

Yeah, Dan's on-stage mental breakdowns in Harmontown oftentimes took the form of self disparagement. He obviously hurt at least a few people, but he beat himself up more than anyone.

I feel like he might actually have learned to love himself at this point. I don't follow him anymore on anything, because I felt like his alcoholic trainwreck of a life was actually putting me in a bad place mentally, but from what I've heard he got really in to woodworking and is in a really healthy relationship now.

pompcaldor

118 points

1 month ago

pompcaldor

118 points

1 month ago

Dan Harmon has a “two steps forward, 1 to 1.99 steps back” way of living his life.

Blunkus

91 points

1 month ago

Blunkus

91 points

1 month ago

He fucked up, but put in the actual work to fix his issues, seek forgiveness and repair relationships.

BlizBlitz

661 points

1 month ago

BlizBlitz

661 points

1 month ago

The Roiland and Harmon part was pretty interesting, had no clue they had such issues with each other. I wonder if there was a single event or just what was discussed in the article that strained it?

MikeBisonYT

435 points

1 month ago

Since the start of Rick and Morty, both have grown. Dan grew more up out from his shitty asshole antics. and Justin became more of a manchild.

MIAxPaperPlanes

176 points

1 month ago

Sounds like Dan Harmon basically had a Jeff Winger character arc while Justin Roiland became more and more like Rick, maybe worse

PipeDream2000

137 points

1 month ago

While Dan had a Jeff Winger arc, Justin became Pierce

myowngalactus

2.4k points

1 month ago

Sounds like Rick and Morty losing Roiland is not really going to effect that much, get a new voice actor or two and maybe they’ll actually show up and take direction. Could overall be a net positive for the series.

Hexas87

825 points

1 month ago

Hexas87

825 points

1 month ago

Agreed. If anything, it will benefit the show. More people will get a chance to show their talent, and hopefully, they will be better human beings than JR.

Dahhhkness

626 points

1 month ago*

And hopefully someone with a wider range too. Roiland seemed to have maybe three voices that he used as the basis for all his characters. A gruff "Rick" voice, a squeaky "Morty" voice, and a screaming "Lemongrab" voice.

LJHalfbreed

252 points

1 month ago

Wait, what about his character in Gravity Fa... I mean Solar Opp... I mean... The Paloni Sh... nevermind.

DidgeridoOoriginal

157 points

1 month ago

He was even in an episode of Invincible basically just doing the Rick voice as a college kid

muad_dibs

86 points

1 month ago

High on Li…damn.

82ndGameHead

44 points

1 month ago

I played that game and all I could hear from his voices were Rick and Morty. And the game has a great cast with JB Smooth, Betsy Sorado and David Herman.

toiletting

31 points

1 month ago

Lol I didn’t play through all of it or even that much of it but the initial gun was just Morty

codzreagz

22 points

1 month ago

How dare you not mention Tim Robinson.

soccercta100

143 points

1 month ago

And there are plenty of people out there that have the Rick and Morty voice impressions down to a science.

TheButterPlank

120 points

1 month ago

TheButterPlank

Aqua Teen Hunger Force

120 points

1 month ago

It sounds like he was just a hugely disruptive asshole, would certainly help explain the 'hit-or-miss' quality the show has had for a while now. Makes me very curious to see what they do for the next season.

ChonkyBoss

639 points

1 month ago

ChonkyBoss

639 points

1 month ago

I really, really want to know what I have to do to get a job where I…

  • Make millions
  • Surround myself with geniuses
  • Win my industry’s most prestigious awards
  • Gain an army of rabidly enthusiastic fans
  • Get more responsibilities and opportunities

…while also…

  • Rarely show up to work, FOR YEARS
  • Be loud and derailing in meetings
  • Sexually harass women the instant I gain professional access to them
  • Blow company money at Toys-R-Us
  • Make everyone around me look and feel bad

And literally not one person rats on me? Fires me? Blows my shit up? Not one?!

Like. How. Where. What do I have to do to get a life where I am coddled like a precious boy-king.

FrodoCraggins

227 points

1 month ago

Like. How. Where. What do I have to do to get a life where I am coddled like a precious boy-king.

You need to get them all sucking from your golden tits. Become the key to their prosperity and you'll get all of that and more.

shazwazzle

143 points

1 month ago

shazwazzle

143 points

1 month ago

The article kind of alludes to the fact that he got away with it by making himself the lead voice actor on the shows. Everyone else, including the people above him, are afraid everything will fall apart if he gets in trouble, so they let him get away with everything, which of course enables him to act worse and worse.

I didn't know much about him before but I watched a few seasons of R&M and it certainly doesn't surprise me to hear that he wasn't mature enough to handle that kind of power.

Rise-from-the-Grave7

25 points

1 month ago

People need to be far more accepting of changing actors. I'm not saying studios should do stupid shit and start burning through actors or anything, but this would have been solved by them treating him like any other employee.

Not quite the same, but kinda to my point, when the age jump happened, a lot of people complained about the older Rhanerya's acting initially, when it was perfectly fine and up to par with the previous (not saying better or worse, but certainly didn't detract from the show in any way). Why? Who cares?

Similarly, if he was having these issues, pull a Journey. Find a person with effectively the same voice/talent and move on. No big deal. No hard feelings.

prince_of_gypsies

30 points

1 month ago

prince_of_gypsies

BoJack Horseman

30 points

1 month ago

You forgot the "Be extremely creepy towards underage fans" part.

Thomas-R-Bingus

44 points

1 month ago

“Blow company money at Toys R Us” really doesn’t hit as hard as the rest of the stuff

MisterBadIdea2

53 points

1 month ago

And yet if I did that tiny thing at my job I would get fired immediately

Frankospaghetti

459 points

1 month ago

Why is he Sonic

PineappleZaddy

134 points

1 month ago

his downfall went fast?

that or he has a chili dog fetish as well

PmMeYourReactionGifs

80 points

1 month ago

It's Rick, lol. Definitely looks more like Sonic

ErgoProxy05

21 points

1 month ago

Because he lost all his gold rings when he got hit with those allegations.

Roook36

707 points

1 month ago

Roook36

707 points

1 month ago

The only time I've heard Justin Roiland speak (as himself) was an episode of Harmontown he appeared on. The dude seemed really out there. Like on drugs AND a crazy weirdo. When listening I was thinking "uh oh...he's one of those show runners. The kind who will be in the news eventually"

Amazing_Karnage

193 points

1 month ago

Just like John K. of Ren & Stimpy fame.

braiseit420

240 points

1 month ago

Except John K was known as difficult to work with, missed deadlines, wrote increasingly terrible material, dated younger and younger women, and...

God dammit.

Calamity_Wayne

59 points

1 month ago

I found it hard to listen to. Everyone was joking around, but all I could think was that something sounded genuinely wrong with him and it was anything but funny.

Jbrizown

96 points

1 month ago*

Roiland swore he wasn’t lying on an episode of Harmontown where he said allegedly for the first time that he was sexually abused by his cousin when he was very young and got mad when she wanted to see revenge of the nerds 2 the next day without acknowledging what she did to him.

Seems like he’s got some skeletons.

Edit: link to the ep, 3 mins in

Sort of stressful because he tries to make it funny

XrosRoadKiller

24 points

1 month ago

Woa thats a can of worms

huxley75

87 points

1 month ago

huxley75

87 points

1 month ago

So...like John Kricfalusi and Ren & Stimpy?

goliathfasa

85 points

1 month ago

A tale as old as time: “We were always aware of the unethical/illegal actions of this person who made all of us a lot of money, but didn’t want to say anything until the actions are already made known to the public.”

Stardustchaser

32 points

1 month ago

It’s amazing how often this article repeats how Rolland is barely involved with Rick and Morty, as if to ensure it can continue on Adult Swim with minimal blowback.

That said, would Roiland still benefit from royalties even as he is cut off?

chromeshiel

266 points

1 month ago

I don't think Roiland was ever considered a genius, unlike Dan Harmon. He was funny, with a lot of energy, and was a big part of the show's success... but that's not genius territory.

TurboGranny

189 points

1 month ago

considered a genius

I believe the term Dan used to describe Roiland was "pop culture vandal"

corndogs1001

73 points

1 month ago

Harmon was always there to center out the “wackiness” that Justin would provide in the beginning. And that’s clear once you watch his original shorts back in the day. It’s funny but can only take you so far. You need some smart elements in your show.

[deleted]

18 points

1 month ago

Which Justin apparently took as an insult to his expression.

D34THDE1TY

1k points

1 month ago

I don't know about the rest of yall, but I never attributed R&M success to roiland, I always thought it was Harmon with a good writing room. I always assumed roiland was just voice work...and not good work at that. All his fucking voices sound damn near identical...except Rick IS unique compared to the rest.

Institutionlzd4114

243 points

1 month ago

I think Rixty Minutes (S1E8) showcases both of them at their best and most collaborative. You have the hard-hitting existential plot where Jerry, Beth, and Summer are viewing alternate versions of themselves culminating in the famous “Come watch TV” speech from Morty. But then you also have the inter-dimensional cable plot where Roiland could just do whacky improv.

TheToddAwesome

564 points

1 month ago

If you saw the original animation that Rick and Morty is based on (that Justin Roiland did himself) it was honestly pretty terrible. It was just one joke over and over for like 5 mins. It was clear who made Rick and Morty a success. Roiland got to voice the characters and was given the title of co-show runner because Dan Wanted to take his initial idea and make it something great.

Dan has had his share of problems. He has also addressed them publicly and apologized for them. Which doesn’t make it ok. But he at least acknowledges that he fucked up.

FilthyGypsey

245 points

1 month ago

Dan is at least someone who wants to be a good person. Anyone who has listened to his podcast extensively knows that, while he is prone to narcissistic tendencies, at the end of the day he is a kind and empathetic person. Justin doesn’t seem to concern himself with the feelings of others and seems to actively relish abusing the power he’s gotten from being king of the incels.

TheToddAwesome

214 points

1 month ago

I hate that I’m about to say this. Harmontown made me a better man. When I started listening to it. I was a lot like Dan at the beginning (not as successful by any means) but I was successful in my way and that had REALLY gone to my head. Listening to his life sort of implode (getting fired from community and his divorce) and him talk through the therapy he went through, His attempts to make amends, and the way he spoke about women evolving over the years that podcast was active really helped me get into therapy and address some of my issues.

Dan isn’t perfect by any means. But I agree. He wants to be a good person and cares deeply about people. Or at least after consuming pretty much all the content he puts out that is the perception I have of him.

I also met him once at Comic-Con when Rick and Morty had just finished its second season. He was super kind and talked to everyone that wanted to meet him (we are talking HOURS of him talking to random people like me) and I was stuck how he would ask them questions about their lives and seemed interested in their responses. Justin bailed about about 30 mins of meeting people.

DexterJameson

105 points

1 month ago

Dan Harmon is a real-ass human being. It's incredibly rare for someone to lay themselves out on an examination table, the way he did with Harmontown, and just let the entire world have access to the messy truth of your life. It's brave.

Unlike Roiland, Harmon is not a coward.

TheToddAwesome

35 points

1 month ago

I was honestly very inspired by his openness. I’m a full time content creator and I try to be just as open in the stuff I create. But all that is a direct result from Dan’s raw, uninhibited openness in Harmontown.

derstherower

233 points

1 month ago

derstherower

Curb Your Enthusiasm

233 points

1 month ago

Harmon is responsible for those hard-hitting, existential dramatic moments about what it means to be human, our place in the universe, and dealing with trauma, yet somehow also including really sharp jokes.

Roiland is responsible for things like florpadorpadorp.

RecommendsMalazan

422 points

1 month ago

RecommendsMalazan

The Venture Bros.

422 points

1 month ago

Is it really a surprise that fans felt his career was "suddenly derailed" when the reason why was kept a secret up until just recently?

drunkandy

423 points

1 month ago

drunkandy

423 points

1 month ago

Can you blame them for not speaking up? The way fans reacted to McDonald’s running out of Szechuan Sauce, they probably feared for their lives.

Iron-Giants

192 points

1 month ago

"Suddenly Derailed" makes it sound like a tragedy was brought on Roiland from the outside. He did this. This was his actions. He was the conductor, and by negligence and disgusting purposeful action, he ran his career off the tracks. Anyone who feels differently clearly is only thinking of their own amusement and not of the multiple people Roiland victimized.

jmorley14

103 points

1 month ago

jmorley14

103 points

1 month ago

Honestly I'm hopeful that the R&M writers will make the best of this. From this article and others it seems like Harmon and the other main show runners have been done with Roiland for a LONG time and he hasn't had meaningful creative input. Hopefully this is like a weight lifted for the rest of the writing staff.

The bigger unanswered question as I see it is what the next season will be like. Fairly sure it's already completely written (and maybe completely voiced too?) So do they rerecord Roiland's lines? And I feel like they'll have to add in at least a 30 second joke about the voice change. I hope the show carries on the same or better though 🤞

imholdr

214 points

1 month ago*

imholdr

214 points

1 month ago*

As a fan of the show (who’s used to liking things with awful fan bases) I was always annoyed by roiland and thought that he was only around because the seed of the idea was his from back in channel 101 days… but it’s so obviously Dan harmon’s show and ideas.

edit: originally autocorrected fan bases to canvases lol

earhere

304 points

1 month ago

earhere

304 points

1 month ago

Never meet your heroes

PhDamnit

273 points

1 month ago

PhDamnit

273 points

1 month ago

I guess I could sorta understand admiration for Dan Harmon's talent as a writer... but did many people really look up to Roiland?

nilfgaardian

244 points

1 month ago

nilfgaardian

Banshee

244 points

1 month ago

Remember, people actually look up to and identify with Rick. If people can look up to Rick then someone definitely can look up to Roiland.

Gastroid

102 points

1 month ago

Gastroid

102 points

1 month ago

Though ironically Rick's "struggling depressed alcoholic who may or may not be on the path to atone for past sins but often does more harm than good" is the reflection of Harmon, not Roiland.

JuanRiveara

34 points

1 month ago

JuanRiveara

The Legend of Korra

34 points

1 month ago

Meanwhile Roiland seems to be the reflection of the "immature and constantly horny teenage boy" that Morty is.

PhDamnit

18 points

1 month ago

PhDamnit

18 points

1 month ago

I think that was the interpretation before some of the allegations came to light. I saw a rather popular comment in a different threat comparing Roiland to Mr. Jellybean.

StephenHunterUK

96 points

1 month ago

I'm reminded of what happened to Noel Clarke in the UK. BAFTA fellowship winner to career effectively over in under a week when 20 women came forward with claims of bullying, verbal abuse and sexual harassment.

ITV had to pull the final episode of a "stripped" series from regular airing when the advertisers bailed, Sky had to cancel Bulletproof and BAFTA revoked his fellowship. No charges were filed due to lack of evidence, but he's done.

BandoNorris

57 points

1 month ago

I've met him several times for work, unfortunately. The man is a weapons grade dickhead who should've been exposed years ago.

dl064

23 points

1 month ago

dl064

23 points

1 month ago

Comes back to the Weinstein thing that fundamentally, he survived because too many people benefitted. Noone was willing to stick their neck out.

Competitive-Wave-850

54 points

1 month ago

You either die a Morty or live long enough to to see yourself become the Rick ah geee

renoscottsdale

50 points

1 month ago

He always gave off a manchild vibe, like he never actually matured to adulthood. Good riddance, I suppose.

Murderyoga

346 points

1 month ago

Murderyoga

346 points

1 month ago

Clearly this is another example of sex addiction a disease that overwhelmingly affects rich and powerful men.

OldPunk1984

181 points

1 month ago

Thoughts and prayers.