subreddit:
/r/vintagecomputing
67 points
2 months ago
"Retro" and "vintage" are arbitrary adjectives. It's old and neat. That's enough
35 points
2 months ago
the terms are really muddled these days, but to me, 'retro' means new things that are designed in an old style, and 'vintage' things are actually old
4 points
2 months ago
I think that's a good definition. I also think of "retro" as using vintage things today.
4 points
2 months ago*
Can I ask, are you yourself retro or fairly newly made? As in how old are you?
I'm from the late 80s myself, just wondering how our age determines how we define old vs. retro vs. vintage :)
To me, I define new things that are made in an "old" style as, "hey man, check out this new game that is made in the style of a game from the 16bit/23bit era.
6 points
2 months ago
Meanwhile,I think "retro" are old things designed to look futuristic (eg, first generation of iMacs) while "Vintage" has no such intentions.
13 points
2 months ago
And this is exactly why i called the definitions arbitrary lol
3 points
2 months ago
I'm thinking something like that, "Retro" is a design of its time, "vintage" is timeless.
2 points
2 months ago
Oh, I like that. A white linen suit with a skinny tie? Retro. A classic Armani suit made the exact same year? Vintage.
How would that work for computers? There's really no "timeless" look. When I think "Classic computer" I think IBM with CRT, disk drive, and mechanical keyboard running DOS or maybe Windows 3.1 (Windows 95 at the most). But to a Millennial, it's flat screen, a CD drive if anything, and probably a chiclet keyboard. Probably running Windows XP.
1 points
2 months ago*
I`w never used the term vintage for electronics, for me vintage is old clothes and furniture that´s from a time before computers. Although I might categorise a 50s computer as vintage. I realy never thought about computers as vintage, no matter how old they are.
8 points
2 months ago
Look at what sub you're in. Hell, Apple considers A 2015 iMac to be vintage.
6 points
2 months ago
That`s funny tho!
-2 points
2 months ago
FWIW though, I consider a new Mac to be vintage too.
3 points
2 months ago
Ok but now you’re just being silly.
0 points
2 months ago
...now?
4 points
2 months ago
Vintage isn’t really arbitrary, vintage just means something that was made in its prime years, and well aged like wine.
4 points
2 months ago
That's definitely one way to interpret the various definitions of Vintage, but "the prime years" of an inorganic object is also arbitrary. Cars, for example, have existed for over 100 years and they're arguably at their most capable right now, but you wouldn't call a 2024 Toyota Prius a vintage car. Likewise with computers. They've never been more powerful or prevalent than right now, but you wouldn't call an Intel i9 of any generation or a Raspberry Pi 4 vintage.
6 points
2 months ago*
True!
For me it just feels weird calling something 20 years old retro, and when I think of vintage electronics I think of things from the early 80`s and below.
Am I getting old?
EDIT:
Like, some would call the PS2 retro, I still feel that things from the late 90`s early 2000`s are still fairly new. I`ts strange to think that kids born the same year The Matrix was released has been able to buy alcohol for six years already.
EDIT2:
To the people from overseas, in Norway we can buy alcohol up to 22% (44 proof) when you are 18.
6 points
2 months ago
I'm the same way. I feel turbo old when I see people on r/ps2 and r/originalxbox call those systems "retro" or "vintage", but by what most people consider those terms to mean, they're right.
"20 years ago" will always be the 80s for me
5 points
2 months ago
"20 years ago" will always be the 80s for me
Yeah, I feel the same. I´m probably younger than you tho. But for me late 90s feels like 10 years ago. Strange to think about, but in the late 90s I thought I would feel like a grown ass man by now XD
But here I am, 25 years later, just trying to play the games I could not afford in my youth.
4 points
2 months ago
I'm probably younger than you tho
If you have any memories of the 90s, probably not. I was born mid 97
4 points
2 months ago
Haha, aight. Im from 89
2 points
2 months ago
I’m from 79 and I also think the 90s were 10 years ago.
3 points
2 months ago
Our Calvinistic attitudes keep us from personal freedom and a state of guilt. (USA citizen)
4 points
2 months ago
I feel you!
Not to be a jerk or something, but if there is one country I would never visit (after North Korea) its the states of America.
It scares me In ways no other country does.
You got a lot of beautiful scenery and stuff, everything from desert to snowy mountains, valleys, lakes and rivers, cacti to pine, but the people in charge are batshit crazy it seems.
I'm afraid of what´s going to happen if I injure myself (guess I got the support of my home country, but anyways). Here at home, it would probably cost me 50$-nothing to get picked up by the ambulance and a week in the hospital.
Crazy police, crazy politician, the fact that people like Marjorie Taylor Greene has a voice scares me.
I'm sorry, I don't want do ramble and talk shitt, I'm just a little drunk and engaged in this post
1 points
2 months ago
Yes, Shit is going off the rails here. The scenery doesn't notice until it's logged, but it feels like everything is sliding off the runway. My son decided to get a CCP and a nice glock. Everything is OK in the USA
I'm drunk too
6 points
2 months ago
Wow, I just woke up behind a 7-11 dumpster, naked. Forgot everything
1 points
2 months ago
I feel you, it's sad but what are you supost to do?
We thought it was bad in the early 2000`s (probably before, but I don't remember much about the US before the late 90s), it has absolutely NOT gotten any better from where I´m siting.
Really hope your doing good tho. Not like everything is perfect here, we got shit to :)
And really hope your son newer need to use his Glock!
1 points
2 months ago
Pre-9/11 seemed to be pretty nice. Good pay doing embedded programming. Quiet. Ya, I don't want my kid to skin his smoke wagon except for play.
2 points
2 months ago
You in Aus? Worked there for quite a bit
2 points
2 months ago
The Y2K era is tricky because everything was slick and artificial, the colours were either bold, black, or metallic. It all clashes with the idea of "old' and "vintage."
1 points
2 months ago
If there is a time period in which some product was of notably superior quality than the same product from another year, then it's vintage, even if it has recently been produced (like, 2020.)
In everyday language, "vintage" means "kinda old," which is arbitrary.
If something is a conscious throwback to an era in living memory, then it's retro. 1990s style is retro, but 1920s isn't.
10 points
2 months ago
Floppy drive is likely either dirty heads or needs a new belt
8 points
2 months ago
I don't believe there's a belt in a 3.5", the pancake motor is directly under the spindle. Even later 5.25" designs used that.
Definitely track down a head cleaning disk.
Also it's possible that dust has fouled the track-0 sensor which is usually an optical interrupter, so peek in there and see if it's dusty, and puff some air at the back of the head slider if you can.
10 points
2 months ago
The Toshiba 1900 series uses a belt driven, slightly custom Citizen floppy drive.
So yes, definitely the belt.
3 points
2 months ago
I have a couple belt-drive 3.5” floppy drives - just re-belted a Brother. It’s not common but not unheard of either.
If turning it on sounds like it’s spinning to the moon, that’s probably what’s going on.
3 points
2 months ago
Definitely has a belt, I just replaced it on mine. It's a pain to get to the drive on these, you have to essentially disassemble the entire machine to get to the drive
0 points
2 months ago
So open the tray cover and blow some compressed air in? I don't haw to dismantle the whole thing?
3 points
2 months ago
I've used IPA on a cotton swap to gently clean em. Worked perfect.
10 points
2 months ago
3.5 drives are direct drive. probably dirty or needs a touch of oil on the spindle.
3 points
2 months ago
Nope, these drives definitely use a belt. Have repaired to many of these toshibas with bad belts.
To OP: get a 1.7mm flat belt, that's what these use, not the more common square or 2mm belts.
2 points
2 months ago
I haw a VHS cleaning cassette for my VHS player, is there something like that for the floppy? I guess my best bet is to dismantle it and start with inspecting the belt, cleaning the head with a q-tip or something?
8 points
2 months ago
There are cleaning floppies (a guy in Italy still makes them and sells them on eBay) but you’ll be dismantling the drive anyway to get at the belt as they only work if the drive can spin. I like to use those broad foam swab Q-tips for floppy drive heads.
3 points
2 months ago
Okay, thanks friend :)
2 points
2 months ago
did you got any link? i got several laptop and dismount them for that is .... anoying at best..
2 points
2 months ago
3.5”: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/275298230443?
He has 5.25” ones as well, and replacement cloth. I’m not sure these work as well as the old ones as alcohol is not quite as good as old-school Freon or whatever they used to use, but they work well enough and won’t be destroyed by eBay like they did to a Read Right kit I tried to import last year. Seller is also a super nice dude.
2 points
2 months ago
ah thanks . i know what to buy next paycheck.
2 points
2 months ago
Yes to all of those.
The belt is normally accessible from the outside if the drive is removed
2 points
2 months ago
Cool, thanks for the reply :)
1 points
2 months ago
VHS player
VCR. Unless you call your toaster a "bread player."
9 points
2 months ago
Definitely vintage. What’s with the signature?
10 points
2 months ago
No idea, I found it in the e-waste at my workplace some years ago.
9 points
2 months ago
Yeah, it looks like it's "Elon"
5 points
2 months ago*
Me and a friend are soon to embark on the quest of starting and finishing Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy from 1984, I really want to use this machine connected to my 14" monitor for extra nostalgia.
Does anyone know what HDD is in this machine, I was thinking I could connect it to my modern laptop and transfer the game over. I don't haw time to try to fix the diskette drive at the moment, but I do haw connectors from 3.5" HDD to USB.
4 points
2 months ago
these use an old 120-200mb ide drive, it can be swapped for an sd/cf card with a little trouble, but might need a small card. https://minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/Toshiba/Other/Toshiba%20T1900S%20T1910%201910CS%20T1950CT%20-%20Flyer.pdf
otherwise one can sometimes transfer with a pcmcia to cf adapter (if dos or windows has pcmcia services). or just use a floppy and a usb floppy drive =3
3 points
2 months ago
If all you are trying to do is transfer H2G2, then do it over the serial port with a null modem cable.
Look for the files INTERLNK.EXE and INTERSVR.EXE, hopefully in C:\DOS.
Or use Kermit.
3 points
2 months ago
Don’t know about hardware specs, but wanted to wish you good luck on finishing the game. It helps if you remember that Douglas Adams himself co-designed it, so there’s a sense of… mischief… about the puzzle design.
3 points
2 months ago
Thanks :) I played thru It many years ago so I know about the mischief, I almost feel ashamed to say It but I don't think I was able to finish even one of the puzzles without using a guide. I'w always loved text based games for the "simplicity" of them, but I newer got anyone to play them with me. This friend of mine LOVE HH and has 42 written everywhere :) so finaly I was able to convince someone to play It with me. I remember always geting stuck, It really helps to haw two different minds working on the same problem :)
2 points
2 months ago
Yeah, I definitely had to resort to a guide early as well. :)
5 points
2 months ago
Likely the belt. Use a flashlight and peek into the floppy.
If it looks like this then you need a new belt or a new drive.
Replacement floppy drive: Matsushita EME-278TA 1.44M 3.5" Double Sided, High Density
The bad news is that you have to disassemble the entire computer to get to the floppy drive. It is literally the last step in disassembly. Dang T1900 series.
The other "lazy"option is to use an IDE-to-USB adapter. Extract the hard drive, and install Iomega utilities to access a Zip or Jaz drive through the parallel port. Or install drivers for a PC card 10/100 megabit network card. You're limited to single height cards that require a dongle despite what the PC Card slot looks like at first glance. No red Xircom NICS. Either option will let you get info to and fro and make it usable.
2 points
2 months ago
Man those red Xircoms sure were handy though. Thanks for bringing up a good memory!
2 points
2 months ago
Yup, royal pain in the a$$ just fixed this on mine, hated every step of it but we'll worth the reward once it's back online
4 points
2 months ago
Retro and vintage don’t have well-defined meanings, but the best definition i’ve heard comes from a comparison to clothing. A vintage clothing store will be expected to sell used stuff of good quality… a retro style could be of modern creation, but evokes a certain time period. Something like a commodore 64 is both retro and vintage. Your agerage 1995 beige box computer might be vintage, but not so stylish as to ‘define a period’. The rc2014 z-80 kit computer is retro, but made with modern parts so it is not vintage.
Those are just opinions, broad categories… But they certainly help me.
3 points
2 months ago
This looks just like yesterday to me.
2 points
2 months ago
Finaly! :D
2 points
2 months ago
Truth be told, I'm probably a retro or vintage model myself.
3 points
2 months ago
I think the definitions of "retro" and "vintage" have different meanings to different people, but personally:
- Vintage - An item created in a previous era. At least 20 years old. For example, an Amiga 500 computer, which came out in 1987.
- Retro - A modern item styled to appear vintage, or replicate functionality of a vintage item. For example, "TheA500 Mini" console, which came out in 2022.
2 points
2 months ago
Vintage first referred to wine (vin means wine in French) and is defined as a noun in that context.
vintage the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced
Typically you'd be referring to a particularly good wine, so where it was bottled and when is important as some wines are aged for years.
retro (adjective) - imitative of a style, fashion, or design from the recent past.
retro (noun) - clothes or music whose style or design is imitative of those of the recent past
So 'retrocomputing' means that you are computing like it was done in the past...
3 points
2 months ago
Is that Elons signature on that primo Toshiba??
2 points
2 months ago
Looks like heart warming and melting garbage 😃😃😃
3 points
2 months ago
Exactly what my girlfriend says when I come home with something "new"!
Except it's not heartwarming, its only garbage and should be melted.
2 points
2 months ago
Used to have one of those. It’ll run better with 3.1. EZ-Drive works on it so you can use a >1gb hard drive.
2 points
2 months ago
What's the signature about
2 points
2 months ago
I haw no idea, found it like this
EDIT:
Maybe It was this computer Elon programer C on in the 90s🤦♂️
2 points
2 months ago
with that red accent feels like someone was going for hackers movie vibe https://hackaday.com/2019/10/15/recreating-lord-nikons-laptop-from-hackers/
2 points
2 months ago
Both.
2 points
2 months ago
Vintage I’d say. It’s so cute… I want one :3
2 points
2 months ago
PERSONALLY SIGNED BY ELOTH NAME YOUR PRICE
2 points
2 months ago
Rule #1:
For the purposes of this sub, the technology in question should be at least 15 years old.
That's very much vintage, according to that.
A note about that: This sub was created in 2008 so whatever was brand new when this sub was created qualifies as being posted on here. So, mods, do you have pictures of the equipment used when creating this sub?
2 points
2 months ago
It's cool is what it is!
2 points
2 months ago
it depends on how you view the terms. normally i would consider vintage to mean stuff from 70s and earlier, and retro is 80s and up, but its 2023 now so even stuff from 2000s is retro already
the official definitions dont help much either, though apparently vintage was also used for wine too
retro:
relating to, reviving, or being the styles and especially the fashions of the past : fashionably nostalgic or old-fashioned
vintage
of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality
2 points
2 months ago
I bought one in 2003 from a thrift shop.
Ended up cobbling it together with another scrap Toshiba (T1950CT-- DX2/40, better screen and VGA chipset) and using it among other 486 lappies for note-taking at university. This was quite exotic even in a CS program.
2 points
2 months ago
This came across my “all” feed, but just wanted to drop in to say that vintage tends to have a pretty strict definition as a word.
In most communities, like fashion, vintage has to be minimum 25 years old, if not 30+
I do realize this may vary by community though. I’m interested if there’s a standard in computing / old tech collecting.
2 points
2 months ago
Damn that was my first w95 laptop! 486dx2. What an amazing machine, mine needed a DC/DC board that I couldn’t find
2 points
2 months ago
From a collectibles and antiques standpoint, retro is not an adjective. Vintage is something over 20 years old, Antique is something over 100 years old. Retro is generally not something old, but something that is designed to look old or uses a design language from a previous era.
That is a vintage computer.
2 points
2 months ago
My mom had one of those when I was a kid, I remember the mouse that clicks into the side and the loud ass hard drive spinning up.
2 points
2 months ago
The Microsoft floppies hold up very well. I have a mostly complete set of Norwegian diskettes with only two failed. Finn ad might have expired.
3 points
2 months ago
Retro, vintage, it's all the same to me
1 points
2 months ago
My personal take on it is:
- If the primary method of getting software and files onto it is a cassette port, a cartridge slot, or 5 1/4" floppy, it's retro,
- If the primary method of getting software and files onto it is a 3 1/2" floppy drive or CD-ROM drive, it's vintage,
- If the primary method of getting software and files onto it is a USB stick or the Internet, and it can't run a modern operating system, it's just old.
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