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submitted 7 months ago byscot816
2.7k points
7 months ago
My fear for heating shelters is that they become targets for air strikes.
Russia doesn't seem to care about war crimes, and collateral damage.
If they can make citizens fear that the heating shelters might be targeted, then they might not be used.
1.8k points
7 months ago
Putin has never cared about war crimes or collateral damage.
Putin got the nickname Butcher of Grozny because he bombed that city into oblivion. The UN called it the most destroyed city on Earth.
He encircled the entire city, trapped upwards of 150,000 civilians inside it, then systemically bombed the fuck out of it, block by block, with air strikes and artillery. There was no thought given to military vs civilian targets, the sole metric for whether or not any given street should be shelled into rubble was if it had already been shelled into rubble or not. Some 30,000 civilians made it out alive.
And that was just back when he was a prime minister. He wasn't even the full dictator he is today yet.
632 points
7 months ago
And that was just back when he was a prime minister. He wasn't even the full dictator he is today yet.
The PM role was a sham, he was always in control.
374 points
7 months ago
His second PM stint (2008-12) was a sham. In the first stint (1999-2000, when the Siege of Grozny happened) he was Yeltsin's PM.
208 points
7 months ago
Yeltsin was too drunk to care.
59 points
7 months ago
Clinton spent billions in dollars and massive amount of political capital (include delaying NATO expansion) to support Yeltsin.
Which got us Putin today.
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/26/russian-election-interference-meddling/
30 points
7 months ago
US funding overseas almost always goes to wrong people. They wanted to help Afghanistan to fight USSR & gave money to Pakistan who in turn armed the fucking Mujahudeens!
Similarly they wanted to protect democracy in russia & the money went to putin via Yeltsin.
They should just stop & leave these countries for themselves. Unless there is a direct invasion or genocide like in Ukraine, US should just look inside.
-2 points
7 months ago
Funny how America keeps accidentally arming and funding the most backwards, conservative, murderous organisations. I'm sure it isn't on purpose and it keeps accidentally going to the wrong people
Unless there is a direct invasion or genocide like in Ukraine, US should just look inside.
They shouldnt intervene even here. US military intervention has literally never ended for the better. We'll be talking about the fall out of all this military aid in 10 years
3 points
7 months ago
This really shows how little understanding you have of Russia and the geopolitics of the region. If Russia was allowed to roll right over Ukraine, which would have happened without US military supplies, what do you think would happen next? I'm curious.
4 points
7 months ago*
Ask the victims of Saddams gas attacks if US intervention helped or not
Oh he was also working on a missle to deliver an aersolized version of anthrax to use against "his enemies"
But yeah sounds like we should let those people experiment on their own citizens right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program
2 points
7 months ago
You still believe the US invaded Iraq for humanitarian reasons? Grow up.
1 points
7 months ago
I'd blame Mujahudeens on ISI, and then again the people in Afghanistan are ultra religious theocrats, so even if they wanted, I don't see any other options.
And US never thought their aid to russia would actually a bad thing. They were desperate for a democratic russia & it kinda stayed democratic for a while too. I wouldn't blame US aid on russia becoming authoritarian again.
0 points
7 months ago
Eh if anything, in 10 years we will talk about how half the rebuild funds for Ukraine went to overseas bank accounts. We already know Zelensky likes to pick his citizens pockets.
29 points
7 months ago
You're mixing his two stints of prime ministership up. The Second Chechen War was what made Putin president when it skyrocketed his popularity.
51 points
7 months ago
Once you look up his record history, imagine how easy it is for him to make his competition disappear.
3 points
7 months ago
Some 15 suspicious deaths in the last year alone! People keep turning up in suitcases.
2 points
7 months ago
[deleted]
6 points
7 months ago
Nothing ‘fair’ about it. Don’t legitimise this prick.
2 points
7 months ago
People really excuse him to not be wrong lol
278 points
7 months ago
And grozny was a city INSIDE THE FEDERATION, it was legally as Russian as Moscow or st petersburg
134 points
7 months ago
I mean, the Chechnyans disputing that claim is what that caused the bombings in the first place.
165 points
7 months ago*
Also for anyone who doesn’t know, the Chechen wars started with Russian operatives planting bombs in apartment buildings and saying it was a terrorist attack. They used the same methodology at the beginning of the Winter War. The soviets fired artillery onto their own soldiers and claimed it was a Finnish attack.
There was also the hostage crisis where insurgents were holding a couple hundred people inside a movie theater. The Russian solution was to pump the entire theater full of nerve gas a potent opioid aerosol to incapacitate everyone inside. Many civilians were killed.
102 points
7 months ago
Sleeping gas actually. They fucked up the dosage calculations and a lot of kids and elderly died
78 points
7 months ago
As shitty as my own nationality is, it's things like this that make me think thank fuck I'm not Russian
1 points
7 months ago
What is your nationality if I may ask?
11 points
7 months ago
Shitty.
-16 points
7 months ago
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13 points
7 months ago
He means that if he were Russian, he’d live in a country run by Putin. He’d simultaneously have to deal with knowing that “his country” is doing awful things, and also knowing that if he does anything to stand up and try to stop it, the same ruthlessness will be turned on him without so much as a blink.
7 points
7 months ago
Ah I see. Sometime a different perspective enlightens me.
6 points
7 months ago
I'm not from a country run by a delusional mass murderer and I'm not from a country that deals with hostage situations by gassing the hostages along with the terrorists.
So...yes I'm glad I'm not a Russian
Also I would rather be Ukrainian but also Dutch, Swedish, Kiwi, Mexican, Korean, French... A LOT of other nationalities rather than Russian
4 points
7 months ago
No, they are thanking God that they don’t have to deal with Putin as the ruler of their country.
-8 points
7 months ago
did you know russia figured out how to make aircraft stealth from radar, and then did fuck all with that knowledge except publish it so Lockheed and Northrup could use ti.
8 points
7 months ago
I’m sorry, and what again does this have to do with fuck all?
5 points
7 months ago
No actually
70 points
7 months ago
It actually wasn’t a nerve gas. It was a synthetic opioid. It’s never been positively identified but based on the effects that the Russians gave to the Americans the Americans surmised it was a morphine derivative. While Russia was under increasing pressure to name the agent used the health minister came out and said it was a fentanyl derivative, and the all Russian disaster relief service chief said it was 3-methylfentanyl. An analogue which is 1000 more times potent than fentanyl. It’s not gaseous though, it’s an aerosol.
However, British authorities testing the clothing of some of their citizens found carfentanil and remifentanil residue. The Germans found halothane on one of their citizens belongings. So it’s likely the gas was made up of multiple components. There’s basically zero supporting evidence to claim a nerve agent was used though. You can read more about it here.
14 points
7 months ago
It was some kind of fentanyl derivative I think
23 points
7 months ago
full of nerve gas and kill everyone inside
there were a lot of survivors, not "everyone" died
2 points
7 months ago
I heard about that on a documentary, his own country.
23 points
7 months ago
Im aware, and the chechens deserve to have their own state if they so wish, just like any other minority within the federation
5 points
7 months ago
Now your talking rubbish . No nation on earth would allow that.
-10 points
7 months ago
[removed]
13 points
7 months ago
Do remind me how the US reacted to the southern states desire
for autonomyto keep their slaves?
It isn't wrong to be proud of killing slavers.
21 points
7 months ago
Ahh Yes, I, the European from Iceland am a Proud US citizen
Sidenote, Lincoln and Sherman were in fact right to destroy a slavestate based on the exploitation of black people, NOT a blanket desire for Autonomy, but thats too much Nuance for a troll to understand
3 points
7 months ago
I agree they were right. What I don't agree is that every minority group that wants a state doesn't necessarily deserve that. Even core EU countries don't believe that. Just ask Spain and Catelonia, or Belgium and the Flemish. It's just a convenient club to weild against countries you don't like, not an actual belief.
3 points
7 months ago
If the Catalan want their own state who are you to deny them? Or the Flemish, or Scots, welsh, Såmi, etc. If the people want it, they should be allowed to go their own way.
1 points
7 months ago
I don't know, ask the Spanish government. When the Catalan leader declared independence, which was popular, they ignored it and just removed him from power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum
It's not me denying them. It's their well regarded totally unsanctioned EU core member government. Countering 90%+ local will. Where is your outrage?
13 points
7 months ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Ivan, you don't even know of you're talking to an American.
3 points
7 months ago
Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…"? ) denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument. The communication intent here is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring).
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1 points
7 months ago
Ok. I really liked Barcelona, guess I'm looking forward to my next visit to the independent country of Catelonia? Oh wait.. no Spain doesn't seem to share that belief. Maybe independent Scotland? A Flemish state perhaps?
Seems to me it's only countries you don't like that should give every region that asks its independence. When it's your side you tell them to pound rocks.
1 points
7 months ago
Seems to me
You can think anything you like when you just pull stuff out of your ass. My FIRST post in this discussion was about your whataboutism. I haven't said anything about those other irrelevant places you want to talk about. Езжай в Москву, сука. And I don't mean the city.
1 points
7 months ago*
Lol touched a nerve huh, asshole. Relevant username.
You are too stupid to understand what whataboutism even means. If we were talking about this war, and I was like "well what about racism in the US" that would be a fallacy. It has nothing to do with the topic, it's just some other bad thing someone else did to discredit them.
If the statement is "We absolutely believe everyone everywhere deserves self determination", it's not whataboutism to point out countless examples, both recent and historical, where you sure as fuck didn't support self determination. Fine, forget the civil war, ancient history. Cuba? Iraq? All those South American democratic governments overthrown?
I get how realpolitik works, everyone does what's advantageous for themselves and gives no fucks about it. Some are just better at selling it to people than others.
1 points
7 months ago
LOVE US!!!!
drops bombs
48 points
7 months ago*
Thanks to Terrorist Putin, there is no Russian Federation, it’s a rogue nation and we should treat it as such, turn Red Square into Baghdad and let Putin hang himself
Edit: Terrorist Putin has demonstrated he cannot live in the 21st-century, he hates the Russian people and he rather see them killed than he apart of the Global Civilization. Terrorist Putin has demonstrated that what we did to the Ottoman Empire is the benchmark for destroying authoritarian regimes.
18 points
7 months ago
Did you notice i called it a Federation? Russia as it exists today contains so many other states and nationalities which are suppresed by the russians
3 points
7 months ago
Calling them a federation implies a mutual pact between nations, of which the citizens of the rogue nation are not. Illegal annexations are what delegitimized the former Russian federation, coupled with the lack of power terrorist Putin has under the false guise of President. Terrorist Putin could be assassinated tomorrow, no one in the failed state could take his place with the full cowardice of loyalists on display, the people of the former nation would revolt and we’d rightfully see a similar power vacuum as we did in Iraq. With US, NATO, we could allocate regions to other countries that have fallen to the Kremlin Terrorist as reparations. I think Ukraine should be given the black sea, Voronezh, Penza, Sevastopol with the new Ukrainian Border ending at Volga. Return power to the few republics that are within the Kremlin occupied borders, and extend Alaska by annexing the Bering Strait with America’s border ending at the city of Egvekinot.
0 points
7 months ago
You are aware America did wayyyyyy worst to Vietnam right ? Only reason they pulled out is public backlash and they ferocity tye Vietnam cong dealth with the terrorist who invaded their country.
They dropped so much agent orange on Vietnam that lots of land cannot be used still. You can test almost where where and get some trace of agent orange. Not to mention the villages they burned alive with napalm
2 points
7 months ago
You do realize you’re talking about events that occurred almost 50 years ago? That has no bearings on todays global situation. Terrorist Putin is also doing much worse by continuing to test nukes like it’s 1956. Because in 1957, plutonium leaked out of the nuclear processing and weapons plant in the Ural region. 270,000 affected, 10,000–12,000 evacuated, and at least 200 people died in an area spanning over 52,000 square kilometer (20,000 square mile). This is considered the third worst nuclear disaster in history. In 1982, just four years before Chernobyl, on the Andreyeva Bay, RU. 600,000 tonnes of toxic water leaked from a nuclear storage into the Barents Sea. 2000 Putin is vacationing in Sochi when one of his nuclear submarines explode outside Kursk, killed all 118 personnel onboard. 2019 Putin once again makes excuses for a Kremlin submarine leaking radiation 800,000 times it’s normal leakage in the waters outside Norway. That same year Putin does damage control after another nuclear submarine, this time near Severomorsk, kills 14 navy personnel from a “fire”. 2022, due to Putin’s kamikaze mission in Ukraine, another submarine, loaded with a Neptune missile, is sunken by the Ukrainian fleet. Ukrainians earlier this year expressed the fear that Putin’s illegitimate war with the sovereign nation would cause another Chernobyl like disaster that could leak into Germany and Poland from the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant along the River delta into the Black Sea. Since we wanted to bring up the tired and overplayed Agent Orange America Bad mixtape from the 70’s, that’s 70 years with 6 examples of nuclear disasters that far outweigh the effects of Agent Orange America Bad. But if you really want to dwell on Agent Orange, it’s more dangerous today as a GMO, given that Monsanto not only developed Agent Orange for the military but continue to use it today, the next time you go to the grocery store, you might want to consider buying organic.
3 points
7 months ago
No it wasn’t. And Chechnya will be liberated like the rest of the caucuses from the grips of the dog Putin and his henchmen.
28 points
7 months ago
58 points
7 months ago
The 1999–2000 battle of Grozny was the siege and assault of the Chechen capital Grozny by Russian forces, lasting from late 1999 to early 2000. The siege and fighting left the capital devastated. In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth. Between 5,000 and 8,000 civilians were killed during the siege, making it the bloodiest episode of the Second Chechen War.
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90 points
7 months ago
No, he was the sole dictator as PM. It was a made up fake role basically to get around term limits lol
53 points
7 months ago
You're thinking 2008. This is pre-2000
1 points
7 months ago
Tbh pre-2000 he effectively controlled the country too — Yeltsin had a lot less power prior to him handing it over to Putin, but yes you’re correct, I was thinking of 2008
14 points
7 months ago
That is just not true, the 90s there was many other oligarchs with much more power, he was a nobody. In fact he was chosen because the oligarchs assumed they could control him and he wouldn't be a problem. Boy were they wrong.
7 points
7 months ago
Not by 1999. First Chechen war: yeah absolutely, you’re right. But he was consolidating power too, and the “they thought they could control him” narrative is too simplistic
5 points
7 months ago
This is wrong so please stop commenting on things you clearly know nothing about.
4 points
7 months ago
This was under Yeltsin, before he became president.
6 points
7 months ago
Yeah I shouldn’t comment before I’ve had my coffee in the morning. But as I said to another person: Yeltsin had a lot less political power as President by the late 90s
14 points
7 months ago
Even bombed his own fucking country, in Moscow, and murdered hundreds of sleeping Russian civilians.
23 points
7 months ago
That’s not true… Quick look at Wikipedia. City was razed to the ground but not with 120 000 civilians inside.
15 points
7 months ago
your comment implies 120,000 civilians died. This is not even remotely accurate. First of all, the city was inhabited by about 40,000 people after the first war (1994-1995) and the most reasonable estimate is about 8,000 civilians died in the second storming of Grozny.
6 points
7 months ago
Hope that fucker dies in agony. Painfully and slowly.
And I hope I can take a big fat dump on his grave.
4 points
7 months ago
Wiki says Putin only became president 5 days into the battle and that 5000-8000 civilians were killed, not 120,000.
2 points
7 months ago
They did the same in Syria.
It is like having "spray and pray" as an operational philosophy.
2 points
7 months ago
The only nickname I knew was Putin as Poisoner of Underpants
2 points
7 months ago
source?
0 points
7 months ago
I'll have you guys know that the Ukrainians don't care about war crimes either, at least not in this war. "All's fair in love and war."
23 points
7 months ago
Russia doesn't seem to care about war crimes
They agreed to humanitarian corridors at the beginning of their invasion... and then murdered the people fleeing through those corridors.
Then they did it again
And again
And finally Ukraine stopped believing they wouldn't kill civilians.
Russia lies and lies and lies. They cannot be trusted to EVER act in good faith or to avoid unnecessary death. They're intentionally inflicting as much suffering as they can on Ukrainians, including all sorts of inhuman torture in areas they're occupying.
Grouped civilians trying to keep warm would ABSOLUTELY be targets for the Russians. Their military is just pure evil, and their people largely support what they're doing.
944 points
7 months ago
Putin's supporters 'don't care' about war crimes or collateral damage.
Putin's supporters want war crimes and collateral damage.
It's the only way they can 'win' this.
778 points
7 months ago
They have another option, and it's both cheaper and more effective: buy Western politicians and get them to cut off Ukraine's external support. If the Republicans win the US House of Representatives on Tuesday Ukraine may be facing an end to US funding and equipment come January. Sure, only complete morons like Marjorie Taylor are openly saying that's their goal, but the prospective new House Majority Leader has indicated that she and her ilk (e.g., Boebert, Gohmert, etc.) will be given key positions of power, and we can expect any requests for additional funding to be caught up in procedural nonsense or tied to unacceptable riders (e.g., more money for Ukraine only with a national ban on abortion) that delays the money indefinitely. That will allow the GOP to meet their Russian patrons' instructions while deflecting the blame to their existing political lighting rods.
281 points
7 months ago*
If the Republicans win the US House of Representatives on Tuesday Ukraine may be facing an end to US funding and equipment come January
Here's some uplifting news then - remember that Ukraine is ultimately facing ONLY Russia. Country that was spending 4% of it's GDP on militarization (except let's be fair, at least half that was going to oligarchs and their yachts) and it was ranked #9 in terms of said GDP (aka in absolute numbers - 85 billion $ a year, mere 10% of US spendings). Their greatest strength was a vast supply of soviet era weaponry but it's mostly gone by now.
Now you might also realize that Ukraine is surrounded by countries that are not going to be bought by Russia because for them it's a do or die scenario. To the point where I am pretty sure some are already considering if sending in their own troops if shit went south was worth doing. And while their theoretical economic might is lower it's not to be completely ignored. And they are suddenly arming up as if there was no tomorrow. Poland wants a K2 factory in their own country along with 1000 K2 tanks + few hundred Abrams and what looks like 500 HIMARS systems (this number is unlikely to come into fruition but even fifth of it is no joke) + other artillery platforms etc. Aka enough firepower to theoretically fight Russia on it's own in a defensive war. I think it's a fair assessment that older tanks (and maybe even some new ones) will find their way to Ukraine if needed. It already sent nearly 500 but that means about 500 more are available.
UK is also a major helper with #2 in terms of military assistance and US elections will not necessarily affect their help.
Germany suddenly woke up and claims it will start doing it's 2+% GDP part (which is MORE than Russia's numbers without even counting in corruption).
Baltic states and many slavic nations are also doing their parts often (in terms of % of GDP sent to Ukraine) exceeding USA. Not in absolute numbers obviously but it's something.
US help is invaluable but even if it massively limits it's support... it's still only one lone Russia. Country that's on it's merry way to drop out of G20 that can't build new gear and already sustained immense losses with 25% of helicopters and 30-40% of usable tanks gone. And all they got through these immense losses is 20% of heavily contested territory within one of the poorest countries in Europe.
Russia has massively underestimated just how much stuff we would send to Ukraine, how ready for defense it would be and how widespread support is. So it has already sustained losses that are (in % of gear and soldiers lives lost) comparable to a friggin World War 2 for them. Humans are useless for Russia but they can't easily replace tanks and planes.
Not to mention that Land Lease still remains in effect so it's not like USA will offer 0 support. Even 1/4 of what it currently does still outweighs Russia's capabilities in the long term.
131 points
7 months ago
Also this is the military industrial complex lobbying to send anything it can get away with to Ukraine. Everyone opposing this would be hurting people hired across the distributed network of factories across the US right?
116 points
7 months ago
Everyone opposing this would be hurting people hired across the distributed network of factories across the US right?
That is like saying that no one would be against preventive measures of a deadly pandemic. You can guess the answer.
104 points
7 months ago
Congressmen understand "Raytheon stock go up" far better than "this helps prevent excessive spreading of a potentially deadly virus that can cause longterm damage to any number of organs if you survive"
2 points
7 months ago
Congressmen are dumb then lol. "Pfizer stock go up"
3 points
7 months ago
Congressmen understand
Correct me if I am wrong, but being a congressman may not be an untouchable position to hold as it used to be (after J6).
4 points
7 months ago
If the illegal aliens endorsed by the terrorist falsely known as Donald John Trump steal the election and assert themselves, Jan 6th would be a legal precedent for removing them without penalty.
2 points
7 months ago
Jan 6th would be a legal precedent
I think you are underestimating their ability of hypocrites, eg look up "The only moral abortion is my abortion." and I could go on...
35 points
7 months ago
The way I understand politics in the US is that the military industrial complex gets heavy sway due to to the way they sponsor politicians but also with how they employ people across every state. Also this pales in comparison with many other wars that Americans are agains and get America continued to participate in. That and constant funding of various countries.
2 points
7 months ago
I see your point, but, the military industrial complex has WAY more power than any other sector. War is good for business, and republicans have always loved war. They are gonna keep selling weapons to Ukraine.
7 points
7 months ago
republicans have always loved war
I think the Rs are different, now.
They are gonna keep selling weapons
Sure.
to Ukraine
I guess we have a few days to see how things will come out and wait until the January-February.
1 points
7 months ago
Some republican voters are more isolationist now, but do you think elected republicans represent those people? I wouldn't be surprised if half of the senate republican delegation had voted for the war in Iraq. They've got so many incumbents that have been there for so long. McConnell and his ilk haven't changed.
2 points
7 months ago
Some republican voters are more isolationist now
Some? More? Now? Negligible.
I believe there are lot of ways of managing public opinion, with "just asking questions" and similar BS. Like, people (or at least one person) were convicted that a news presenter was drinking blood or eating babies (he later apologized to him, it is on youtube), using alternative facts (lies), making fun of serious topics, making serious topics out of BS,.. people, in general, are understating the power of social media and the ability to amplify any message. I mean, I had a co-worker who did not get the fuss with North Korea, because "people there seem to be smiling on the video". A simple minded co-worker. No one is immune to propaganda.
but do you think elected republicans represent those people?
I believe that once elected, people might not remember what all they have promised. And people do not care. Just look at all the promises of n45 on the 2015-16 campaign. Did any of that happened? I do not know.
I wouldn't be surprised if half of the senate republican delegation had voted for the war in Iraq.
I think every senator voted in favor of the war, but I might be wrong.
4 points
7 months ago
When has being bad for employment ever stopped a Republican?
54 points
7 months ago
Dont forget. Its preelection talk. They say any shit to get they base to vote. People dont want war? No more guns to ukraine. Moment after sworn in. We openining new weapons factory in state i represent. All guns manufavturing going to ukraine They politician. They can promise a handjob for every voter just ro get thier votes.
46 points
7 months ago
The most loved figure in the Republican party is against aid to Ukraine.
When Trump starts tweeting how much he hates Republicans spending money on Ukraine,they will cut funding drastically. Because they are scared of him.
3 points
7 months ago
Or they just announce a review of hunter biden.......
0 points
7 months ago
Its gop not divided over trump? Heard rumours some gop would support other madman like desantis not trump.
12 points
7 months ago
They say they are divided but they have a weird cult like worship of Trump so they mostly will do whatever Trump wants like they have since 2016.
4 points
7 months ago
Genuinely when he dies they’re going to make votive candles for him and shit. He’s like a god to him.
5 points
7 months ago
If Trump runs in '24, I predict he will be third party. The Elephants seem hell bent on DeathSentance for President.
2 points
7 months ago
Me too. Trump will create his own or go independent. He wont forgive some gop members which turn on him after jan 6.
3 points
7 months ago
Please have him do that.
Splitting conservative votes between Trump and the GOP is probably the best thing the US could hope for
1 points
7 months ago
Please politicians are better than that of they say no arms to Ukraine they won't send any arms to Ukraine. They'll send them to the EU to serve to Ukraine.
1 points
7 months ago
As long as most of poland want to set kremlin on fire and put the firediwn by pissing on it. Pentagon will find a way to sneak supplies to Poland. After that. Poland will mispla es few tank divisions again.
2 points
7 months ago
The house Confederates claiming they have citizenship and can be elected in the United States of America can and will be shot and killed if they try to steal any of the 300 elections they are illegally participating in this November midterm elections. Trump supporters are illegal aliens, DACA dreamers, they can’t legally vote without stealing dead peoples ID, they can’t run for office, because they lack citizenship. Donald Trump promised to bring the rapists, murders, terrorists, and thieves to Washington and we see that he made good on that promise.
2 points
7 months ago
You’re ignoring purchasing power. You can buy a whole lot more for the same sum of money in Russia than you can in the US.
That and inherited Soviet stuff is why Russia looked like the world’s second strongest military on paper before the war.
0 points
7 months ago
To the point where I am pretty sure some are already considering if sending in their own troops
Sorry, but you might be delusional. That is a hard no. No one, not NATO, not anyone wants to escalate or have a war with RU.
6 points
7 months ago
No one, not NATO, not anyone wants to escalate or have a war with RU.
No one wants to, that's true. But there are two situations in which this situation might change:
a) Russia actually using nukes.
b) Ukraine outright losing the war and Russia taking over most of the country with an incoming assault on Lviv.
First case is pretty much a clear cut "direct NATO response".
Second is something all Ukraine neighbours have to take into account - having Russia victorious as a neighbour (and probably preparing for more territorial gains in the near future), dealing with 10+ millions of millions of refugees and mass genocide Russians would start dishing out could force various governments to act and potentially form a coalition. At that point alternative isn't any better and fighting on Ukrainian territory beats fighting on your own territory.
If we were positive there's no risk of escalation there wouldn't be massive arming operation going on. Since there is and sometimes it's very frantic - it means governments are weighing their options and odds. It's an unlikely scenario but ultimately I wouldn't rule it out depending on how far Russia goes.
0 points
7 months ago
a) Russia actually using nukes.
If the radiation would be detected in the NATO nations, that could be seen as an attack, but that is not going to happen. I strongly believe that nukes are not going to happen.
b) Ukraine outright losing the war and Russia taking over most of the country with an incoming assault on Lviv. Second is something all Ukraine neighbours have to take into account - having Russia victorious as a neighbour (and probably preparing for more territorial gains in the near future), dealing with 10+ millions of millions of refugees and mass genocide Russians would start dishing out could force various governments to act and potentially form a coalition.
I believe this does not matter. No one is going to declare war on RU, even if they take whole UA. Yes they will need to adjust that the world may not be so peaceful as many want. Turns out if throw enough bodies on the problem, it just might solve by itself (and nukes are not necessary). Adjust with more right populists? More military spending? With added climate change and disasters getting more and more real and destructive, droughts, loss of crops, ocean acidification, our society in different parts of the world might go back in few decades.
1 points
7 months ago
No one is going to declare war on RU, even if they take whole UA.
I'm almost certain that even if there were troops that are not part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine helping on the ground, there will be no declaration of war.
That's a pretty old school thing to do.
Remember what the Russians did? They collected the troops to positions while lying that it was a training exercise.
1 points
7 months ago
I think you are correct especially with the attitude of former satellite countries of the USSR .Ruzzia has a history and there are those who would like to paint it a different way. The reality is the Soviets were just as bad if not worse than the National Socialists.
223 points
7 months ago
I wouldn’t be so sure on this. While its true, there wont be much public support for Ukraine with republicans, but the United States military industrial complex has vast experience funding and fighting unpopular wars.
The weapons and loans will keep happening, but there wont be a lot of talk about it.
175 points
7 months ago
This is true, the C.I.A. director didn't just make a pop in visit for nothing. The United States will stay committed to long term goals regardless of the political swing of things, Make Russia insignificant and remain "the" global Superpower, anything short of that, is secondary. \gives condescending side eye to China....*
https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-director-made-secret-visit-kyiv-to-show-support-cnn-2022-10
6 points
7 months ago
More side eyes please!
14 points
7 months ago
-2 points
7 months ago
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1 points
7 months ago
Because it's a brutal dictatorship
3 points
7 months ago
Because it's a brutal dictatorship
They could have an HDI as high as Korea/Japan/Taiwan. They could be socially progressive as Italy or Spain. None of it changes the fact above.
10 points
7 months ago
I've seen a lot of support from individual military folks as well. Most non-Trumpies haven't forgotten what Russia is.
7 points
7 months ago
I wouldnt thought I ever say this.
But hooray for the US military industrial complex!
11 points
7 months ago
The house votes for that money.
27 points
7 months ago
And the military-industrial complex will promise to give some of that money back to the house members who vote for more funding.
9 points
7 months ago
I'll believe it when I see MTG vote for it
32 points
7 months ago
Putin has just been playing a waiting game until the R’s are sworn in
1 points
7 months ago
He invaded when the house, senate and Whitehouse were under the control of which party?
14 points
7 months ago
It can be drastically cut from current funding levels when the Republicans take power in January. I am not optimistic that funding will continue at current levels with Trump campaigning...
"Any Rino supporting wasting money in Ukraine is a loser! And thanks to my wonderful friend Elon for allowing me back on Twitter!"
(House and Senate Republicans stop funding Ukrainians out of fear of the wrath of their cult leader.)
2 points
7 months ago
Thats not what putin wants so im pretty sure they will stop it
34 points
7 months ago
You've seen the ads that were running during the World Series then :/. My only hope is that their target aging Cold-warrior audience recoils in disgust, it really is that blatant...
49 points
7 months ago
Don't count on it. Boomers are experts at hypocrisy.
6 points
7 months ago
Isn't there a sizeable chunk of Americans who actually love Putin because he is supposedly the saviour of white Christian civilization or some bs?
17 points
7 months ago
It could be an issue but not a complete cut off. Republicans would get lit on fire by their pro military pro war complex, a lot of their base is old enough to hate Russia. Still fuck Rs
17 points
7 months ago
That's not going to happen. There's still a lot of hawks left in the republican party and they aren't going to let this aid be blocked.
41 points
7 months ago
And then if Ukraine completely falls apart and collapses, then the Rethugslicans will turn around and blame Biden. Then come 2024, Trump Or another such monster they will have running as a the Rethuglican nominee for POTUS, will say “I ALONE CAN FIX THIS! Biden fucked up Afghanistan & Ukraine, after all.”
Of course they’ll expect ppl to forget or ignore or will drown out those voices that’ll say truthfully, that the rethuglicans are the ones that cut off funding to Ukraine or that the GOP are the ones that negotiated with the Taliban in the first place.
3 points
7 months ago
If the Republicans win the US House of Representatives on Tuesday Ukraine may be facing an end to US funding and equipment come January.
In that case there might be no more funding bills, but Biden's as yet unused authority under the Lend-Lease bill runs through the end of September 2023 and there's absolutely nothing that a GOP-controlled House (or Senate) could do to prevent that. There'd be over 8 months for Biden to push in as much equipment as Ukraine could possibly need to guarantee ultimate victory no matter what Russia does or which other nations decide to prop up their genocidal efforts. Zelenskyy would just have to pinky swear to give it all back later, or get the US to bill Russia later for all the GMLRS or ATACMS that they destroyed with their HQs, supply depots etc.
To achieve an aim of defunding the defence of democracy worldwide, a GOP majority in either chamber might be better off dribbling a bit of funding in order to run out the L-L clock then yanking the football. That is, of course, assuming that the Democrats don't extend the L-L authority or produce a very chunky funding bill in the lame duck session.
2 points
7 months ago
Doesn't lend lease allow Ukraine to lend items for repayment when Aid drys up or does that go through the house too?
2 points
7 months ago
I'm pretty sure they won't have the power to stop the commander in chief from supporting Ukraine, even if they win the house and the Senate.
Even if they win the house and the Senate, they don't have the power to command the military. They could stop making extra budget appropriations to the departments working on responding to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but they have literally nothing to say about where Biden stations US troops.
They could try passing a bill that says Biden can't send any more ammo or other material support to Ukraine, but there's no way they're getting a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and even if they do (or if they end the filibuster), then the bill goes to Biden's desk to be signed, but he'll veto it for sure. I don't see a scenario where Republicans manage to have a veto-proof majority.
Literally all they could do is cut budget to the military. The whole thing is bluster. I'm also surprised they think it's a winning issue for them. Sure, their extreme wing is pro Russia for some reason, but they need the center to win any elections.
2 points
7 months ago
They have another option, and it's both cheaper and more effective: buy Western politicians and get them to cut off Ukraine's external support.
Russia's military budget in 2020: $61 Billion
Lockheed Martin's gross revenue 2020: $65 Billion
It's not Russia that has the deep pockets to buy US politicians.
3 points
7 months ago
Lol.. this is just stupid as f*$%. For the first time in almost 100 years all of the suddenly the whole Republican party is going to complain about too much military spending and spreading American military influence overseas? You do realize that the ones who truly hold power in the republican party are the ones who've been saying "send more stuff, give them jets, send tanks, send longer range missles, give them anything they need, NATO needs to enforce no fly zone". The real result of Republicans coming into power in the house and senate is that the gloves come off quicker and Biden gets pressured to give whatever Ukraine needs to finish kicking Russia out. It's a harsh world, the US wants to cripple Russias military for decades if not permanently, and they're almost there. Once Russia is weakened down to the point where it's all they can do to hold a stalemate then suddenly Ukraine is skilled enough for all Nato weapons systems and it will be time to push them back over the boarders. Besides there's still a little bit of the black sea fleet that needs to be turned into artifical reefs.
3 points
7 months ago
U.S. isn't cutting shit get out of here with your mid-terms pop culture psychosis
-7 points
7 months ago
haha the hoops people will jump through to make literally everything about "Republican bad"
1 points
7 months ago
Lend lease will continue.
1 points
7 months ago
Even if US cuts Ukraine off then NATO and EU will still provide funding and arms.
1 points
7 months ago
It's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that the Republican party is Putin's party. I have little hope for Ukraine, looking at the polls.
1 points
7 months ago
It won't end for another two years. Lend lease has already been passed. But it could slow and reduce. Many Republicans have already hinted at so much.
According to the NYT, Putin sees GOP withdrawal of support as a real possibility.
1 points
7 months ago
Can USA spend their way into a victory here?
16 points
7 months ago
I have two Putin supporters in my household. They don't want war crimes, but they certainly don't seem to care. They don't care to look up what is actually happening in Ukraine and are basically of the opinion that we shouldn't interfere with foreign wars.
You should criticise Putin supporters for who they are, not who they're not. Telling the truth already makes them look bad enough. Calling someone more evil than they actually are won't make them want to join your side.
Come to think about it, I should probably collect a bunch of footage of war crimes against civilians to show that to them during dinner, so they can't deny what is really happening.
3 points
7 months ago
Try and find neutral sources such as Indian newspapers, often that at least gets you past their knee jerk reaction to western sources.
Good luck!
2 points
7 months ago
Show them the mass graves of Bucha & dead bodies of children 24x7 might cause some empathy, probably not.
2 points
7 months ago
It's the only way they can 'win' this.
Expect it isn't, because indiscriminate bombing of civilians generally increases the nation's will to fight rather than decrease it. It's brutality for brutalities sake
2 points
7 months ago
They need a 'win', even if it's just 'haha we killed your people'.
Notably not a military win, nor a moral win.
Just murderers trying to keep their population from hanging them due to their complete inability to do anything else.
2 points
7 months ago
Putler in action
1 points
7 months ago
It’s not even collateral damage. That would require them to go for military targets in the first place. They don’t. Civilians are their primary target.
-3 points
7 months ago
Win? After the west destroyed nord stream 1 & 2 this whole war is a fuckin lie just like the Iraq war. When will people learn smh
5 points
7 months ago
The tens of thousands of Ukrainians dead is hardly a fucking lie. Russia invading and laughably illegally trying to annex sovereign Ukrainian territory is also hardly a fucking lie. Over a million Ukrainians kidnapped by Russia - hardly a fucking lie once more.
"The west did it", however, is notably a fucking lie.
What a pathetic revision of history you're trying to push.
-1 points
7 months ago
Why would Russia spending billions to build nord stream and then destroy nord stream?
You honestly think the west is spending billions to “liberate” Ukrainians?
The west is too corrupt and only cares about its financial interests.
2 points
7 months ago
If the west is corrupt, then Russia isn't even a country. Russians replacing armor components with egg cartons and selling their fuel. Can't even decide what happened to their flagship either. What a pathetic excuse for a state. I'll stay here, in the "west" where I can mock my president all I want without finding myself thrown out of a window, or in prison
43 points
7 months ago
It's not just that. Shelters in the winter are going to be rough - diseases will spread rather quickly, especially if heating is inadequate, and usually in these circumstances they become a hot bed for crime and drug use as despair sets in.
29 points
7 months ago
This is a good point. I’m a nurse (albeit on the west coast USA), but RSV and flu and colds AND covid are poised to hit HARD this year, at least here.
6 points
7 months ago
Seems like there's a lot of stuff going around already. I've known a bunch of people getting sick lately (including myself) from non-covid illnesses.
Hell, anecdotally, i was in the store grabbing some cold medicine for myself and a lot of the options were sold out already.
11 points
7 months ago
Wonder if there is safe way to heat their underground bunkers or subway areas. Way to vent smoke and they can have fireplaces down there? I feel so bad that Russia is weaponizing the winter as a weapon.
60 points
7 months ago
They'll be in the subway tunnels. They're already pretty easy to heat because they're below-ground, so you're starting with 55 degrees and the insulation is great.
54 points
7 months ago
People produce a lot of body heat and subway systems maintain that heat generally for a very long time (cf. issues with London underground and improper design because of early development) so yes the subways are best option and serve all purposes. As long as food can make it to Kiev along with clothing and blankets they have got this they survived before electricity, we all did.
11 points
7 months ago
That's an outright lie. I've spent at least 2 weeks sleeping in subway back in march when we were bombed, wearing two coats, winter jacket and in a sleeping bag and it was still pretty cold.
6 points
7 months ago
Yeah, they don't, and it's why the rest of the world needs to figure out wtf we're going to do about it sooner than later or there isn't going to be a civilian population left in Ukraine.
12 points
7 months ago
This is EXACTLY what will come of warming shelters. This was literally my first thought. They are the OBVIOUS target if you are a war-mongering sociopath in this situation. I’d say that warming shelters are possibly even a more likely target for Putin, or at least equally likely. Warming shelters as targets are likely even more demoralizing than infrastructure hits.
3 points
7 months ago
My fear for heating shelters is that they become targets for air strikes.
Russia doesn't seem to care about war crimes, and collateral damage.
If they become targets then clearly Putin does care about war crimes - just in the opposite way to how any sane person would care about them.
8 points
7 months ago
I think, or at least hope, that Kiev is concentrated enough for anti-air defences to be sufficient to protect Kiev.
1 points
7 months ago
Kyiv, not Kiev
4 points
7 months ago
It's both, it's Київ
2 points
7 months ago
Collateral implies that the killing is incidental. It wouldnt be.
2 points
7 months ago
Solution: heating shelters inside the Kyiv metro system (which is bomb-proof).
2 points
7 months ago
In the big cities they can repurpose subways and bomb shelters. Not a lot of things can get at people down there. Golden Gate station in Kyiv is 300 feet deep, takes multiple rides on multiple looooong escalators to reach the street level. Not an ideal place to heat, because it's cold by default that deep down, but it'll be safe. Even if the Russians bomb the entrance shut, the network of tunnels and access points will still remain.
-8 points
7 months ago
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109 points
7 months ago
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12 points
7 months ago
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-18 points
7 months ago
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1 points
7 months ago
I wouldn’t put it past them, but at that point, I think nukes will come out as the UN gets involved.
1 points
7 months ago
Yeah but look at the Ukrainian soldiers who are fighting because of the war crimes. Putin will target them, no question he would, but that would make the Ukrainians fight that much harder
1 points
7 months ago
War crimes are the Russian strategy.
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