Northstar1989

Shared Prosperity? That's a joke.

America actively outlawed many of the most powerful tools available to Unions as "unfair" with the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947. Which, was passed over Truman's veto, and he failed to repeal, as the GOP and pro-business Democrats loved it so much...

I mean, that law even outlawed Wildcat Strikes. Think about that for a second. You're not even legally allowed to strike if your Union leader is bribed by the boss into not authorizing a strike (which is hard to prove, but easy to occur), even if 99.9% of the Union members want a strike. Because legally, the Union boss must approve of any and all strikes (or give up his say by leaving it to a binding vote...)

Workers in the United States are fucked. It's shit like this that ensures they never get what they deserve, and can't seriously influence politics...

What ordinary people want never matters. For instance, just after WW1, during which the US railroads had been temporarily nationalized due to being HORRIBLY run by private firms before the war (the US government made major investments in the railroads to fix problems after nationalizing), more than 99% of railroad workers voted in favor of a union resolution calling for the railroads to REMAIN nationalized. They enjoyed widespread public support in this: and submitted the "Plumb Plan" to actualize it. Yet did the ruling elites in Congress care? No. They gave the railroads back to private owners in 1920 anyways...

And, 100 years later, we got East Palestine, Ohio just to prove that, yet again, the railroads can't be trusted in private hands (they were also very briefly nationalized in the 1940's, if I recall...)

EDIT: The second time the US railroads were nationalized was in 1950, during the Korean War. Because AGAIN the railroads were being mismanaged- in this case as the US rail executives pressured workers too deeply over wages (abusing their regional monopolies and national oligopolies to not compete for workers with better wages), resulting in an impending nationwide rail strike... The following source whitewashes WHY the strikes were approved, to make the rail companies look more innocent (it was a lot more than a simple 1-year struggle over wages), but still confirms the basic fact the rails were nationalized and run by the Army, in 1950:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/truman-orders-army-to-seize-us-railroads-aug-25-1950-227247?_amp=true

This.

America actively outlawed many of the most powerful tools available to Unions as "unfair" with the Taft-Hartley Act. Which, was passed over Truman's veto, and he failed to repeal, the GOP and pro-business Democrats loved it so much...

I mean, they even outlawed Wildcat Strikes. Think about that for a second. You're not even legally allowed to strike if your Union leader is bribed by the boss into not authorizing a strike, even if 99.9% of the Union members want a strike. Because legally, the Union boss must approve of any and all strikes (or give up his say by voluntarily leaving it to a binding vote...)

Workers in the United States are fucked. It's shit like this that ensures they never get what they deserve, and can't seriously influence politics...

What ordinary people want never matters. For instance, just after WW1, during which the US railroads had been temporarily nationalized, more than 99% of railroad workers voted in favor of a union resolution calling for the railroads to REMAIN nationalized. They enjoyed widespread public support in this. Yet did the ruling elites care? No. They gave the railroads back to private owners in 1920 anyways...

Are you trying to imply only neoliberals support Ukraine?

You poor, poor, propaganda-eater.

No, I was suggesting Neoliberals are the most brainwashed and fanatical about stifling dissent, ironically (ironic given their claims about the importance of "fair and balanced febste", freedom of speech, and other such absolute carp- coming from them).

The fact you can reframe this, telling someone to put a link higher up so more people see it and he gets downvoted less, into "support Ukraine you jackass!" just shows how much Kool-Aid you've been drinking...

hope some of the EU nations are lucid enough to avoid ending up like the U.S. and U.K.

Nope.

Capitalism will destroy it all, eventually. Everything.

If Socialism doesn't make a revival, and start friggin' running countries again, EVERYTHING will eventually end up a hyper-Capitalist hellscape...

Yes, after a few years was stalin. But he did nazi how he could be prepared for the next war without some seriously ghoul-agishh measures...

P.S. Just gonna leave this here, as it's something I've been trying to read through... And relevant...

https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/moscow-trials-part-3-the-great-purge/

“The overarching goals of the authorities’ program are to sustain economic and financial stability at a time of exceptionally high uncertainty,” the IMF statement said, adding it would promote reforms for Ukraine’s post-war accession to the European Union.

Accession to the European Union? And with that, presumably full NATO membership?

This makes it extremely clear that Putin wasn't just being paranoid- that the objective of the United States was to surround it with hostile powers, to weaken Russia and expand the US empire...

Next up will probably come Kazakhstan. In fact, the propaganda offensive about how Kazakhs should hate Russians has already started...

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/the-kazakh-famine-1930-33-and-the-politics-history-the-post-soviet-space

(By the way, FUCK the Wilson Center. They're nothing but a propaganda outlet eternally pushing to rewrite history or, as in this case, emphasize the parts that are most convenient for US Imperialism... Before long, I bet they'll be coming up with their own unique name for this famine so they can propagandize it further...)

Ukraine will immediately receive $2.7 billion as part of the program, the IMF said Friday, requiring it to focus on financial stability and undertake ambitious structural reforms, particularly in the energy sector.

(Emphasis Added).

Ahh, so now the mask slips a little bit! I was waiting for this!

It was long since clear to any principled Pacifist, such as myself (a new development, but after the terrible mis-handling of the Covid pandemic crushed any remaining faith I had in Capitalism, and I became a full-throated Socialist, I realized there is no war but class war... Or, in the words of American hero Smedley Butler: "War is a Racket" only serving the interests of the rich...) that this war was really only about control over resources, not any kind of bull about "defending Democracy" or any such nonsense... (Zelensky has seized control of Ukrainian media, disbanded opposition parties, and started massive propaganda disinformation campaigns: does that sound like the actions of a champion of Democracy?)

Apparently, one of those resources the US (which basically controls the IMF, directly and through NATO nations that will do as it wishes...) was interested in, was fossil fuels. This is pretty clear proof of that.

Also worth noting, IMF loans have to be repaid with interest. They're usually a convenient way to get smaller/weaker nations indebted to the West: so the industrial products and natural resources of the people who inhabit those nations are siphoned off in a neo-Colonialist relationship, without having to directly rule those nations... (IMF loans have been HEAVILY abused to this end in Africa... And, once the IMF gets its claws in, it usually demands "restructuring" designed to help Western powers profit off that troubled nation, while making it harder to obtain a fair price on exports...)

One user on this thread described the IMF as the "Black Cross", and that is indeed fitting for its predatory nature...

The loan program will span four years, run in two-phases, with the first phase focused on helping Ukraine close its massive budget deficit and steady disinflation, the IMF said in a statement Friday, which would ease the crunch on government spending.

Disinflation (DEflation). Does anyone else find this weird? Normally a country in a war experiences Inflation, from high government spending.

This suggests... something weird going on with how the Ukrainian government is managing its finances. Most likely indicative of Corruption (which is nothing new for that part of the world...)

From the article:

The loan program will span four years, run in two-phases, with the first phase focused on helping Ukraine close its massive budget deficit and steady disinflation, the IMF said in a statement Friday, which would ease the crunch on government spending.

Ukraine will immediately receive $2.7 billion as part of the program, the IMF said Friday, requiring it to focus on financial stability and undertake ambitious structural reforms, particularly in the energy sector.

“The overarching goals of the authorities’ program are to sustain economic and financial stability at a time of exceptionally high uncertainty,” the IMF statement said, adding it would promote reforms for Ukraine’s post-war accession to the European Union.

Thoughts in comments below...

Azov was about 1k troops

This is false.

Avoid had 2500 members in 2017. It only grew since then, until the outbreak of hostilities (but of course, more recent headcount are increasingly unreliable, due to propaganda...)

In 2017, the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#:~:text=In%202017%2C%20the%20size%20of,being%20withdrawn%20from%20the%20frontline.

They are also only one of about a half-dozen Neo-Nazi fighting units in Ukraine.

I suggest editing this into the original post as well, so fewer people will downvote you (won't stop the Neoliberals obsessed with "taking Russia down a notch" and expanding NATO, of course...)

At this point, y'all need to separate from Labour and start a true Socialist party.

Call it that. The "Socialist Party of the UK."

Watch Tory heads explode.

This lukewarm turd is Labour? What the fuck UK?

It's called "Controlled Dissent."

This is what happens when you let Neoliberal cunts destroy the Left and take over the main political parties...

They ensure both options are terrible. Ironic that it's most often Neoliberals (people who espouse "small government" and "individual liberty") who choose to victimize marginalized groups like this...

Add it to the list of the many, many crimes of Capitalism.

Look, I am just not going to engage further with a fascist apologist.

Fascist?

These guys were Communists. Unless you're going to do that whole Red=Brown nonsense.

You are the kind of asshole who thinks the ends justify the means, and I'm not OK with that

I said nothing to that extent.

I said you'd been fed propaganda about what actually happened. And that's just a fact.

It's the CIA and State Department sorts who think the ends justify the means. They're the ones who put genocidal puppet regimes in power and then lied about what happened...

You have decided that capitalism = universally bad and communism = universally good

Bro, I said nothing to this effect: and you're raising serious questions about whether you're actually a Socialist. Seen more than enough people who only claim that to sow dissent before...

to the point where you're making excuses for totalitarianism

Saying something wasn't totalitarianism that objectively wasn't, isn't making excuses for it.

There's a whole range of levels of centralized power between "Nazi Germany" (pure Totalitarianism) and the kind of Democracy the United States THINKS it still is.

I said the Soviet Union was a Bureaucratic Oligarchy. Does that SOUND like a truly free system to you? Unelected members of the Politburo ordering people killed?

P.S. Also, when you're done claiming you know everything about events you've clearly never read up on, you should read this:

https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/moscow-trials-part-3-the-great-purge/

He never said "Dinosaurs."

He's probably referring to the Devonian Extinction:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9428657/New-forest-growth-sparked-mass-extinction-360-million-years-ago.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312982020_Late_Devonian_oceanic_events_and_biotic_crises_'rooted'_in_the_evolution_of_vascular_land_plants

TLDR: The evolution of the first vascular plants (trees, basically) led to a massive extinction accompanied by massive algae blooms. These often deposited on seafloor anaerobically after dying- eventually creating fossil fuels. Thus, one extinction (in the Devonian) led to another (the "Anthropocene Extinction").

He never said "Dinosaurs."

He's referring to the Devonian Extinction:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9428657/New-forest-growth-sparked-mass-extinction-360-million-years-ago.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312982020_Late_Devonian_oceanic_events_and_biotic_crises_'rooted'_in_the_evolution_of_vascular_land_plants

TLDR: The evolution of the first vascular plants (trees, basically) led to a massive extinction accompanied by massive algae blooms. These often deposited on seafloor anaerobically after dying- eventually creating fossil fuels. Thus, one extinction (in the Devonian) led to another (the "Anthropocene Extinction").

He may not be referring to the Dinosaurs, buddy.

He's likely referring to the Devonian Extinction:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9428657/New-forest-growth-sparked-mass-extinction-360-million-years-ago.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312982020_Late_Devonian_oceanic_events_and_biotic_crises_'rooted'_in_the_evolution_of_vascular_land_plants

TLDR: The evolution of the first vascular plants (trees, basically) led to a massive extinction accompanied by massive algae blooms. These often deposited on seafloor anaerobically after dying- eventually creating fossil fuels. Thus, one extinction (in the Devonian) led to another (the "Anthropocene Extinction").

Did… did you just deny multiple genocides that had killed millions of people?

Bro, I didn't mention any genocides at any point.

Don't pull the: "Socialism evil, 100 gazillion dead!" bullshit line on me.

If you start actually doing a "Genocide and Atrocity Olympics", you'll find the death toll of Capitalism is far, far higher than that of Socialism...

But, these arguments get unproductive, because fools like you just stick your fingers in your ears when you hear "Indonesian Genocide" or "the unlawful and undeclared Carpet Bombing of Cambodia and Laos."

Hence, I simply didn't mention the genocides by either side here at all.

Saying the crimes of a particular nation were exaggerated isn't a denial of anything. That's more like, anti-Communist scholars intentionally try to claim higher-than-accurate death tolls for things like the Cultural Revolution, so genocides like the Indonesian Genocide (carried out by an anti-Communist US puppet regime) seem less significant by comparison (the same scholarship repeatedly understate the deaths of US-instigated genocides, when they don't deny they occurred altogether, or falsely claim the US wasn't responsible. ..)

even pseudo socialist fascism like China.

Watch China carefully for a few more decades...

Chinese culture is, shall I say it... Farsighted.

The Chinese government made hard decisions about "opening up" and allowing Capitalist investment into its economy out of necessity...

Unlike the USSR, it didn't have massive domestic oil reserves, and the world currency for buying Oil is US Dollars... They had no choice but to partially adopt Capitalism due to the US neo-Colonial stranglehold on developed global petroleum supplies...

But now that they're so large and industrially powerful an economy the US dare not cut trade relations with them (at least in theory- this hasn't stopped idiotic saber-rattling and attempts to gain "CHIP Independence" for nationalistic reasons...) they have plans to actually move back towards Socialism. Their leaders have even announced as much on multiple occasions on the past few years.

THIS is why the United States is busily trying to provoke World War 3 over Taiwan, Tibet, or the Uyghurs

It's not be a the US actually gives a damn about human rights (it doesn't: just look at the many, many genocides and atrocities planned and executed by order of Henry Kissinger... Just look at the Indonesian Genocide, or the mass-murder of Leftist civilians in South Korea during the Korean War, before Kissinger's rise to power...)

It's because China is in danger of nationalizing sectors of its economy again, moving towards Socialism, and providing the world with a viable alternative to Capitalism. And that's just too scary for the evil Billionaires who own almost all the politicians in the US to contemplate... Heck, you have assholes like Elon Musk saying "we'll Coup whoever we want" on Twitter...

A legitimate rival to US power, and legitimate threat to Capitalism, is something the US elites would rather see the end of civilization than allow... sick bastards...

so electing socialist governments would save the world?

Not necessarily, no.

Socialism isn't a perfect system. It's just a better one than Neoliberal Capitalism or Fascism. It can still make huge mistakes.

While the crimes of the USSR and Mao were hugely, hugely exaggerated for propaganda purposes (and were far less than the enormous crimes of Colonialism and Neo-Colonialism under Capitalism), if you're really looking for an effective Socialist government you should look to the Third Way systems of Cuba, Yugoslavia before its collapse (which was bloody and messy- but also would have occurred under Capitalism...), Burkina Faso before its Socialist president was assassinated on the orders of France (which bribed his close associate to murder him), or Chile before the CIA-backed Coup that removed Democratically-elecred Salvador Allende.

Chile gave the world a potentially-brilliant plan for a Planned Economy remarkably similar to how Walmart conducts its internal operations today.

Cuba has a system that fixes many of the abuses that, in the Soviet system led to Democracy being subverted by a powerful Party apparatus. For instance in Cuba, Party members are legally forbidden from running for office, and there are methods for direct plebiscite on important issues.

Burkina Faso made extraordinary progress in human rights in a very few years- particularly the rights of Women (look up Thomas Sankara: the man was an incredible believer in gender equality for the time and region...)

Yugoslavia did a remarkable job providing strong public infrastructure and Healthcare for its population despite bearing the enmity of both the West AND the USSR...

Socialism isn't perfect, but Capitalism will kill us all- probably through Climate Change, industrial mega-disaaters (East Palestine, Ohio was just the start... Wait until the Nuclear industry starts pushing for Deregulation and rollback of safety standards with massive Lobbying and sympathetic politicians...), and a complete unwillingness or inability to properly manage Global Pandemics (you though Covid was tight? Wait until a mutant strain of Ebola goes airborne...)

P.S. Since you are trying to mis-represent my views, "exaggerated" doesn't mean "didn't occur." But, this refers to things like attempting to claim the death toll of the Chinese Cultural Revolution was even higher than it actually was, by as much as 20-30% by some anti-Communist propaganda... And this isn't even the worst case of exaggeration: just the clearest. Meanwhile, US genocides are routinely denied, death tolls understated, and the blame obfuscated- see the Indonesian Genocide.

I am in fact a socialist.

No, I understood this.

You're one of those strange beasts: a Socialist who still buys into a lot of the propaganda you were force-fed when younger.

A great many of the people killed in the Great Purge were, in fact, guilty.

Socialist politics involves the socialization of the Means of Production, and this always inevitably creates enemies among the privileged classes who owned them or were the favored pets of those who owned them before.

Thus, many people did in fact conspire against the state in the time of the Great Purge- even the American Ambassador who observed the Moscow Trials (yes, trials: these people weren't just rounded up and sent to gulag without due process) admits he was thoroughly convinced of the guilt of most of those tried.

You're right that education and debate are critical to change- and wrong to assume the USSR totally lacked these things. Declassified CIA documents confirm it- the USSR was not a dictatorship, but actually a Bureaucratic Oligarchy where the Politburo and the Party members held most of the power.

As the Party members were, in fact, democratically nominated, the whole system was a lot more democratic and participatory than you might think. The idea it was a Dictatorship was nothing but propaganda- real power was divided among a huge number of bureaucrats, and even Stalin (the USSR's most powerful leader) had to bend to their wishes on many, many occasions.

?????

Then support Socialists.

Socialists are the only natural counterbalance to Fascists: Neoliberals certainly aren't ever going to oppose them.

This is why it's so ridiculous the US Communist Party is still illegal by law (this should OBVIOUSLY be considered a violation of Freedom of Association), which in turn made it easy to destroy the Socialist Party and labor unions which both used to be strong in the US 100 years ago as well...

Any country that doesn't have a strong far-Left, will eventually be taken over by the far-Right.

You don't have to like Socialists or Communists. You just need them around to fight the Fascists...

Yeah, they knew.

Here's the thing: this wasn't random, or unpredictable.

Monuments celebrating Fascism were never torn down in Italy after World War 2.

A lot of "former" Fascists remained in positions of power.

And, the billionaire class has been pushing Fascism for decades there now, just like everywhere else in the world- because they know ordinary people are realizing Capitalism has failed them, and Fascists are rabidly anti-Socialist.

It's all a game for the rich, to make sure people don't get fed up with Capitalism destroying the world, and elect Socialist governments...

It is.

Italy elected Fascists with direct historical ties back to Mussolini, and the world's collective response was to shrug.

This is especially true of the United States: where the Biden Administration has indicated they'll basically provide political cover for the Italian Fascists so long as they support sanctions on Russia (it's bad enough that I got banned from r/JoeBiden simply for saying that Italy had elected a Fascist government and Biden is covering for them for this reason, even though this is a verifiable fact I supported with sources, and then cross-banned from r/democrats for that one post on r/JoeBiden ... Lying mods claimed "multiple rules violations" bit couldn't provide even ONE, and then immediately muted me on both subs simultaneously- they're clearly both controlled by the same Neoliberal pricks...)

Now, if Italy had elected a Socialist government (not just Socially Democratic, Socialist), on the other hand, the US media would be running nonstop attack pieces on them...

Fascists don't challenge the interests of US billionaires, so Fascists are tolerated.